Style of play

Yiddo100

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But how can you say the diamond does not work when half the players have not yet featured ion it? I agree Sissoko and Winks in a diamond midfield is poor.
Winks at the base and GLC and ndombele in their is what I’d like
 

spids

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Winks at the base and GLC and ndombele in their is what I’d like
That's what I am getting at. We haven't seen Kane and Son together in a diamond (at least not when both are fully fit). We haven't seen Lo Celso and Ndombele together at the sides of the diamond. We haven't seen a fit again Dier in the DCM role. We haven't seen Dele tucked in behind Kane and Son in this formation. End of last season the likes if Eriksen and Dele had to play the deeper roles that we have bought Lo Celso and Ndombele to perform. I think it is too early to judge, and that Poch wanting to evolve the team has to be a good thing, even if it takes time. The fact he's changed it at HT in both games to position the players differently shows it is a work in progress for players and manager alike.
 

WiganSpur

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Im not one to usually start any kind of thread, I tend to tag onto any thread available but felt a tad compelled to start something on our style of play. This isnt a trigger happy post but a post based on whats happened over the last couple of years in terms of performances in the main.

When Poch first came and particularly at WHL we had a style of play an identity which I feel over the last couple of years has since disappeared. It could be as Poch calls it adaptation or perhaps it is evolving into something else but the question is "to what"?

We had a style of play that meant our full backs bombed forward supporting our attack, we played with intensity and purpose and that bought the best out of all our players - Kane, Dele, Eriksen, Dembele at the time etc. Now our play and tactics is such that it kinda makes our players look tired, lackadaisical, slow. Kane for example today had nothing, Eriksen was useless as were one or two others but i dont really blame them, I blame how we play and how we are set up. I dont think it is right that we have one of the best strikers in the world who was running around like a headless chicken searching for the football... and it isnt the first time.

So my question is has our actual play gone backwards, are we really getting the best out of our current players? Is Poch overthinking things eg the diamond formation or not playing our best formation and tactics to our strengths?

I appreciate it sounds ludicrous given how far we have come and how close we were last season to winning the CL.

Thank you for your time...
I have agreed with this for the last couple of seasons. The quality of the football has been scattered at best.

I do however think there are mitigating factors and reasons for that. It's very difficult to play with intensity at Wembley, and Pochettino often had to put square pegs in round holes because of the transfer market shambles and the fact that injuries became very costly as a result.

To come on to your point, I think the answer is to still give him a few months to see where we're at then. It's going to depend on what happens with Eriksen, but should he stay with us I will be judging Pochettino more harshly if by October/November I can't still work out what we are trying to do style wise.

I guess the game to judge will be the reverse fixture against City.
 
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spursgirls

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I think it will take a while to fully integrate our new players and meanwhile Poch has been working without Dele, Son and Foyth and has three players who could still leave the club and possibly are playing at 95% not 100% because of that uncertainty. (Plus no Jan still for some reason. I can't believe he's not fit enough, there must be more to it). He obviously can't put out his favoured team yet, so it's a difficult situation, though one we should be able to cope with, with the quality of the squad now.
I agree with the OP though. We used to press fast and hard and our passing was one touch football that was hard to stop. I'd love to see that again.
I'd also love to see another goal like this one:
 

Hakkz

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Im not one to usually start any kind of thread, I tend to tag onto any thread available but felt a tad compelled to start something on our style of play. This isnt a trigger happy post but a post based on whats happened over the last couple of years in terms of performances in the main.

When Poch first came and particularly at WHL we had a style of play an identity which I feel over the last couple of years has since disappeared. It could be as Poch calls it adaptation or perhaps it is evolving into something else but the question is "to what"?

We had a style of play that meant our full backs bombed forward supporting our attack, we played with intensity and purpose and that bought the best out of all our players - Kane, Dele, Eriksen, Dembele at the time etc. Now our play and tactics is such that it kinda makes our players look tired, lackadaisical, slow. Kane for example today had nothing, Eriksen was useless as were one or two others but i dont really blame them, I blame how we play and how we are set up. I dont think it is right that we have one of the best strikers in the world who was running around like a headless chicken searching for the football... and it isnt the first time.

So my question is has our actual play gone backwards, are we really getting the best out of our current players? Is Poch overthinking things eg the diamond formation or not playing our best formation and tactics to our strengths?

I appreciate it sounds ludicrous given how far we have come and how close we were last season to winning the CL.

Thank you for your time...
Good thread. To anyone who would think it's based on yesterday's game, this was the case most of last season. No obvious style or structure. Add to that how Poch always seems to fail when setting up the team to begin with. Always a poor first half and then having to chase the game in the 2nd. That's one difference to how Pool and City handled last season. Win the game in the first half and then slow down/rest players. We're having to squeeze out every last drop of energy from our players game after game.
 

JCRD

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The reason I started the thread wasnt because of yesterdays performance because we were playing City after all. But lets be honest first half against Villa and yesterdays actual set up and approach just didnt seem right. I wouldnt like to think our approach is to pass it around the back for a few passes then hoof it to no one as we did yesterday... the main reason for the 47% possession though.

As some have called it here, my post was merely a review or a question than panic or knee jerking over yesterdays performance. I think its wider than that and deeper than that and i think it is right to ask the question.

The question really arose because if I am asked the question what our identity or style of play is or how we would approach a game - i dont have a damn clue. I used to though.

Hopefully Poch now has the tools to play particularly when we get Son, Dele back
 

Shadydan

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Just playing devil's advocate here but why is at acceptable that we don't start the season well under Poch? He's meant to be one of the best managers in the world, and he's got a squad full of too class players now..... It shouldn't take him until November to get them playing well.
It's not acceptable but it's understandable, he has his coaching methods that have been proven 'relitavely' successful, he's not the perfect coach but he will improve.

I think if you're expecting us to go all guns blazing this season from the off then I think you should lower your expectations a little, we're never gonna hit the ground running especially with 3 new players to integrate.

Apart from Man City give me another team in the world right now who has near perfect performances every match from August to May?
 
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Shadydan

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@Shadydan

To challenge that narrative...

Last season we won 10 of our opening 13 games through to the end of November, including the first 3. We lost away to Watford and home to City and Liverpool. We beat Man Utd and West Ham away early on.

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/tottenham-hotspur/2019/3/

Our problem was the opposite - relegation form in the final third of the season!

Season before our points per game was higher in first 9 games than the season as a whole even if there were some disappointing results!

I don’t think we’re that slow to start..
We don't have slow starts so to speak but in terms of cohesion and fitness we're not at our peak, that much is obvious.
 

Primativ

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I see a lot of excuses from people on here, some of which are quite laughable.

"it's difficult to play with intensity at Wembley"

"we have new players to bed in"

"key players missing"

A lot of excuses, but it's fair to say over the past 18 months our good performances can be counted on one hand.
We do not look tactically slick or accomplished, our style of play is generally poor, and it's a consistent thing for quite a while.

I know it's early days this season, but people seem to be putting a hell of a lot of weight on our new signings miraculously making everything ok? It's only really two senior players we have bought in, are they going to offer such a dramatic effect on our style of play? They might do, but I'm going to wait and see on that one.

Personally, I feel their is something missing from the side and there has been for 18 months now. We just don't seem at it. I know City are on another planet, but for me Liverpool are a much better baromter for us to compare to. They do NOT have better individuals than us but they look a far better team.

Yes VVD had an immediate and huge impact, but even going forwards, they look much better than us. I don't understand why most of the time we look so clueless, when we have Kane, Son, Moura, Alli, Eriksen etc It's not the individual quality that is lacking, but Poch seems to struggle big time with getting our attack to really gel nowadays. We don't look very coherent. It's what pundits allude to when they say we don't look at the level of Liverpool or City, we just don't have "it". We just don't look as well coached. There, I said it.

I do wonder if some of Poch's magic has started to wane at Spurs. He has been here 5 years and the first three years was a constant improvement until we peaked two seasons ago. Since then we have declined and this season seems to be similar to how we were performing last season.

Early days and no one can fairly judge until Xmas time really to see if performances have improved, but I feel concerns with are performances are valid in the context of the last 18 month period.
 

newbie

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I think your underrating Poch, his achieved so much, he sees the bigger picture, we are adapting and changing for a reason, let’s look what his achieved and then delete this thread!

Watch Liverpool play poorly and it’s win ugly! We go to city who hammer teams at home and draw, after we knocked them out the champs league so they were going to be up for it.

It’s second game of the season last year we made champs league final and 4th with no signings, no stadium, injury’s, burnt out players, and yet we are discussing how we have gone backwards. Easy to go forwards when spend 200 million a season and pay players big big money.
 

newbie

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I see a lot of excuses from people on here, some of which are quite laughable.

"it's difficult to play with intensity at Wembley"

"we have new players to bed in"

"key players missing"

A lot of excuses, but it's fair to say over the past 18 months our good performances can be counted on one hand.
We do not look tactically slick or accomplished, our style of play is generally poor, and it's a consistent thing for quite a while.

I know it's early days this season, but people seem to be putting a hell of a lot of weight on our new signings miraculously making everything ok? It's only really two senior players we have bought in, are they going to offer such a dramatic effect on our style of play? They might do, but I'm going to wait and see on that one.

Personally, I feel their is something missing from the side and there has been for 18 months now. We just don't seem at it. I know City are on another planet, but for me Liverpool are a much better baromter for us to compare to. They do NOT have better individuals than us but they look a far better team.

Yes VVD had an immediate and huge impact, but even going forwards, they look much better than us. I don't understand why most of the time we look so clueless, when we have Kane, Son, Moura, Alli, Eriksen etc It's not the individual quality that is lacking, but Poch seems to struggle big time with getting our attack to really gel nowadays. We don't look very coherent. It's what pundits allude to when they say we don't look at the level of Liverpool or City, we just don't have "it". We just don't look as well coached. There, I said it.

I do wonder if some of Poch's magic has started to wane at Spurs. He has been here 5 years and the first three years was a constant improvement until we peaked two seasons ago. Since then we have declined and this season seems to be similar to how we were performing last season.

Early days and no one can fairly judge until Xmas time really to see if performances have improved, but I feel concerns with are performances are valid in the context of the last 18 month period.
Are you for real! What more can the guy do!
 

PLTuck

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Just playing devil's advocate here but why is at acceptable that we don't start the season well under Poch? He's meant to be one of the best managers in the world, and he's got a squad full of too class players now..... It shouldn't take him until November to get them playing well.

There were quite a few seasons under Fergie that Man Utd didnt hit their stride until the 2nd half of the season, when they went on to win the title. I remember him saying quite a few times that Aug - Nov they were still building their confidence, style of play and getting their mojo.
 

newbie

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@Shadydan

To challenge that narrative...

Last season we won 10 of our opening 13 games through to the end of November, including the first 3. We lost away to Watford and home to City and Liverpool. We beat Man Utd and West Ham away early on.

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/tottenham-hotspur/2019/3/

Our problem was the opposite - relegation form in the final third of the season!

Season before our points per game was higher in first 9 games than the season as a whole even if there were some disappointing results!

I don’t think we’re that slow to start..
I think World Cup, stadium and champs league killed us at the end of the season, I would not read in to it. Our squad looks stronger this year and it’s 2 games in. We also grind out results early on and find our grove as the season goes on.
 

spursfan77

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It’s strange because I’m preseason we were back to looking like a really well drilled team, pushing from the front, being in shape and good in defence and attack. So I thought the performances of last season were gone. But in real games it’s looked anything but.

I think it’s poch’s poor initial team selections and tactics. He seems to get it wrong from kick off more wrong than right nowadays (and last season) and has to make subs and we are much better. Until he does that then it will be more of the same I’m afraid. We look a bit like we did in his first season with us, albeit more dangerous in front of goal.
 

danielneeds

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Last season Poch didn’t have the players or the squad with any energy levels to play high tempo football. It was all about trying to manage them through the season as best we could.

This year it’s too early to say. Hard to draw any conclusions after a couple of games, still trying to bed in Ndombele and Lo Celso, who will both be big players.

There are still a lot of questions about the defence and midfield balance for sure.
 

ComfortablyNumb

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At the start of every season since Poch arrived, I've said, on here, that what I most wan't to see this season is some evidence that he knows how to turn 10 outfield players into more than the sum of their parts. He got us fit, made us tough and unrelenting, and ditched the rotten apples, for which we are all grateful, but we still play like a bunch of individuals. There are may teams in this league, whose players are nowhere near as good as ours, who play better football than we do.

I can't argue with the effectiveness of Poch's methods, but I think our players could do better, given better coaching. And, frankly, given that we're still winning fuck all with this effective style, I'd settle for a bit less effectiveness, and a bit more panache. Citeh and 'Pool show what can be done.

To all of you wishing to see us play a different style, I think you'll have to wait for a different manager first. We are properly a big club now, and Poch was part of us getting there. Now we have to believe that there's no position at the club that we couldn't improve on, be it Kane, Eriksen or Poch*. That's how big clubs think.

*Except Baldy, of course...
 

Shadydan

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If you're using last season as factual evidence that our cohesion is what not it should be then that's fair enough I guess but if you're gonna dismiss the mitigating factors as excuses then that argument is dumb.

Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son only played 10 (ten) matches together last season, they still haven't played once together this season, for reference Liverpool started without Firmino against Chelsea and their whole team fell apart, this is what tends to happen when you lose vital cogs in your team.

Lets wait till we get those players back on the field before we start the concerns at least.

I've been through our mitigating factors why we went downhill last season enough times on this site, but if you want to ignore the evidence and make them out the be excuses then that's your choice.
 

fishhhandaricecake

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This.

Our game plan fell over because we couldn't play out under the City press. On the few occasions we did manage to get through the first line of the City press, the 2nd line of press was just as aggressive and 99% of the time we were dispossessed or forced into an error before the ball got anywhere near Harry.
We had no answer at all and that is what Poch and the team need to work on because I think both City and Liverpool will attempt to do this to us.

I thought Poch would try and break the lines through Winks & Ndombele but I don't remember it happening once in the game. Maybe Pepe anticipated this and shut it down?
But also we had no pace apart from sissoko so why sit back and play on the counter that clearly wasn’t going to work with Eriksen LM and lamela Kane and winks, none of them have pace or all ball carriers. Ndomble isn’t really then either tbh. Very odd tactics and not the first time we’ve said that about poch.
 

DJS

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Sometimes I find it more stressful being a spurs fan now we’re actually good then when we were shit in the 90’s lol.
 

fishhhandaricecake

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If you're using last season as factual evidence that our cohesion is what not it should be then that's fair enough I guess but if you're gonna dismiss the mitigating factors as excuses then that argument is dumb.

Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son only played 10 (ten) matches together last season, they still haven't played once together this season, for reference Liverpool started without Firmino against Chelsea and their whole team fell apart, this is what tends to happen when you lose vital cogs in your team.

Lets wait till we get those players back on the field before we start the concerns at least.

I've been through our mitigating factors why we went downhill last season enough times on this site, but if you want to ignore the evidence and make them out the be excuses then that's your choice.
Ok but compare to Man City then then have a clear way of playing and 4-3-3 and If they lose any of their attacking or midfield players they have others who can come in like for like. The fact we play about 10 different formations means we can’t build a like for like squad like lpool and city which means when we don’t for example have son or Kane we look far worse.

I think he should’ve just stick with 4-2-3-1 and could Have the 22 below:

Lloris
Gazzaniga

KWP
Aurier/Foyth

Toby
Jan
Sanchez
Foyth/dier

Rose
Davies

Ndombele
Winks
Wanyama
Dier
Skipp
sissoko

Lucas
Lamela

Erisken
Lo celso

Dele
Son

Kane (son as back up)
 
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