The beginning of the end...

[midoshairband]

Assuming this is all true, I hope the trigger is pulled after the Arsenal game (which as it stands, we'll likely lose). We've seen it too many times before with every other club: when you've lost the dressing room there is no way back, it just doesn't happen. We can't afford to let the season go to waste while our rivals are improving, top 4 is critical.

I'm stunned that I'm even contemplating this 3 games into the season but the club comes first, always.

the problem is, its not just 3 games in. we’ve been piss since Christmas. 15 points from 15 PL games is horrific. although the CL run was amazing and exciting, it was ultimately, if we’re honest, pretty lucky. I know you make your own luck etc etc.

I think if we lose v Scum, its game over. if he can’t get it right for a game of that magnitude, it says a lot.

 

[joelstinton14]

As much as I appreciate everything Poch has done for us, if he has lost the dressing room then he only has himself to blame.

The amount of uncertainty and negativity he’s created over the past year can only unsettle the players. Why should they be fully committed if Poch himself is constantly fuelling speculation over his own future.

I never thought I really wake up one morning and see everyone in pretty much universal agreement about Poch. This is the guy that has performed miracles for us I can't think of any fan base that sings 'he's magic you know'. But the last 6 months has been a shit show on his end. Normally blame kind of go straight to Levy in situations like this, but his actions and way of delegating with the press has seemingly had the same effect on the fans as the players.

I think that is how bad it is at the moment. Everyone can see it for what it is. I hope he can turn it round.

 

[Yiddo100]

Anyone from Madrid want a manager and a midfielder in a package ?

Maybe we should do a swap, Simeone and Saul for MP and CE

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I would have loved him 10 years ago. Now he's a really big risk. Big ego getting a massive payday.

Oh I agree! I don't personally want him. I thought his spell at ManUtd in particular is a reason not to hire him. So I'm not debating his hypothetical candidacy rooted in my personal preferences. However, objectively speaking, many arguments against him don't strike me as very valid.

 

[midoshairband]

Maybe we should do a swap, Simeone and Saul for MP and CE

all out for Simeone would be amazing.

 

[Dougal]

I never thought I really wake up one morning and see everyone in pretty much universal agreement about Poch.

What is everyone agreed on?

 

[double0]

You make it sound as if Vertonghen is Adebayor, I can't say I remember him being much of a problem for us previously.

Investment isn't the first answer to our problems, what we're seeing on the pitch now isn't solely down to a lack of the right players, it's fundamentally deeper than that IMO. The way it looks to me is that Pochettino tinkers the formation, like he did yesterday initially after HT in putting us in more of a 4-4-2, but we're not playing these systems effectively, it looks like the players are just told to take up different positions with no new set of instructions to go with it. Yesterday I feel like I could have gone in that dressing room at HT, given the speech and just said "right, Lamela you go wide left, Son you play out on the right and Lucas you play central to partner Kane" and the performance after HT would have been no different to what it actually was. If I'm honest it looked amateur to me. The last time we actually looked like things were clicking on the pitch was probably around Xmas last year away to Everton.

Also it's all good coming away with a hard fought draw away at City, but the result loses so much of it's value when you then go and lose to a relegation candidate at home the next game.

I didn't mention Adebayor and yes Vertonghen has had issues with previous managers. Investment is key to any success just look at Liverpool and City they've made signing effective to their starting 11 within the last 4 windows. You said Pochettinho tinkers with the system whereby players are told to take up position not knowing what to do...was that said when we draw at city.

Look losing to Newcastle is pooooor regardless. I just think there's issues behind scenes regarding transfers contracts and fitness unresolved. Once this European window closes the squad will be in a better position

 

[Timberwolf]

While Mourinho would be tempting as he's won trophies everywhere he's been, the problem is what position does he leave the club in when he inevitably leaves after 2/3 seasons? He'd almost definitely have sold some good players that don't suit his system, alienated the dressing room, brought in a negative style of play and signed players with short-term gains rather than the long term in mind. Also, given the quality of Liverpool and City, winning even a domestic cup is more difficult than ever, so there are no guarantees he'd even manage that.

Personally I think Mou is a terrible idea and we should steer well clear, much as it would be funny to see the reaction of the Chelsea fans if he came.

 

[Yiddo100]

I never thought I really wake up one morning and see everyone in pretty much universal agreement about Poch. This is the guy that has performed miracles for us I can't think of any fan base that sings 'he's magic you know'. But the last 6 months has been a shit show on his end. Normally blame kind of go straight to Levy in situations like this, but his actions and way of delegating with the press has seemingly had the same effect on the fans as the players.

I think that is how bad it is at the moment. Everyone can see it for what it is. I hope he can turn it round.

I’ve just seen your name, gives me bad flashbacks of yesterday I’m trying to forget, please change

 

[PLTuck]

I was expecting to come onto SC today and see a lot of negativity. I wasn't expecting a top ITK to basically say unequivocally that it's looking like the end of this particular chapter. Worrying times

We should be in the best place we've been to challenge for decades. We have a great squad, promising youth, new stadium, amazing training ground, and have just signed 2 magnificent footballers and 2 very promising prospects.

If we play like we have so far we will get fucking battered at the shithole next week.

If Poch lost the dressing room then why sign his top targets? Why not part ways in the summer? Not questioning Vals info but all very odd timing.

Please not Mourinho though. Used to think he was fantastic at Porto and his first stint and Chelsea but if Poch has become divisive, then surely Jose should be last on our list?

Personally I hope that Poch buckles down and gets his head out his arse and gets back to being the positive, upbeat manager that has done so well for us for 5 years, and we ride this storm out.

 

[rossdapep]

If you'd been in a coma for two years and were presented with two facts;

1. We'd just reached the CL final
2. Levy has just signed Poch's top two choices

You'd be ecstatic and thinking that we are going to be one hell of a team.

Which just makes this situation worse.

 

[Stamford]

Mourinho style of football would never be tolerated by everyone on here

 

[double0]

So. what tricks has the 'disruptive' Vertonghen been up to exactly?

Ask Pochettinho.... Maybe not training well or putting in the required effort

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

Poch has been with us 5+ years. His project for the most part has been amazing - we’ve gone to new heights and he put together the best side I’ve witnessed in watching the club for 25 years.

But bar Ferguson and to a lesser extent Wenger, few managers are able to constantly reinvent and motivate over the longer term. They become stale and generally move on. It’s the same in all employment. It appears that both the players and Poch are ready for change.

 

[rossdapep]

Mourinho style of football would never be tolerated by everyone on here

Like the last 6 months have been total football?

 

[Mr Pink]

DL will do whats best for the club. If Poch has lost the dressing room which didnt just happen yesterday, has dropped Jan for no apparent reason and the players are reflecting this on the pitch, big decisions have to be taken... if you think that Levy will let it drift after weve reached our first CL final, finishing regularly in the top 4, considered challengers and moved into the best stadium in the country, well he wont....

I agree with that but a big reason as to why we've done so well has been Poch.

But let's be honest, things havnt been right for quite sometime and it's been a gradual build up of negative situations developing.

Now if these can't be resolved I think this all has a real air of inevitability about it.

If Levy thinks this slump we're in is going to continue he may well feel he needs to act sooner rather than later.

Such a shame as I thought Poch would build something remarkable but somewhere along the way he's lost his enthusiasm for achieving that - imo.

 

[soflapaul]

Lost the dressing room....Tick tock

And equally as important, he's lost SC! #Pochout!!!

on a more serious note, i last checked this thread when it was at 4 or 5 pages just to take up today to see it at 26 pages with two ITK's posting multiple comments. that is sobering in and of itself.

a) Poch got us where we are and for that alone, he deserves the opportunity to right the ship. it's clear that the reaction of many is that they fear a return to midtable mediocrity and not the highs and elation of the last few years. the future is not cast in stone and the final curtain hasn't fallen.
b) This is the sternest test of Poch's entire managerial career and nothing is set in stone. as someone alluded to earlier, there is a difference between lost the dressing room irrecoverably and lost it temporarily. It seems to me that it will require some humility on Poch's part to bring the senior players back in and have them help lead the recovery process. and it might in part come down to new contracts for JV and TA that are not as favorable to THFC's terms as they think they should be. Losing the dressing room irrevocably will cost far more.
c) as much as i fear of a future without CE and know that it will be ugly for months to come, him moving on may turn out to be a blessing in disguise. I love the player and love what he brings but if he can't get behind the team, as good as he is, it isn't enough. And that would mean that quite a few other players, esp GLC, will have to fill the gap much faster than Poch would normally want him to do.

and perhaps i'm wrong regarding Mourinho, however, i cannot imagine that he was at the game at the behest of DL if he was lined up as a potential replacement. From a business perspective, undermining existing management by doing would be incredibly stupid. maybe it's naive to think so, but at this point, i'd think DL has too much respect for what Poch has done to take that kind of step.

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

Mourinho style of football would never be tolerated by everyone on here

I agree to an extent. But even when he was at Utd - he managed to win a league cup, europa league and finish 2nd in his only full season. We’ve 1 won trophy in 20 years. We’ve played some brilliant football under Poch but have nothing in the cabinet to show for it.

 

[Yiddo100]

The most positive thing is we’re a hell of a lot more attractive now for managers than we were when poch took charge

 

[CowInAComa]

I was expecting to come onto SC today and see a lot of negativity. I wasn't expecting a top ITK to basically say unequivocally that it's looking like the end of this particular chapter. Worrying times

We should be in the best place we've been to challenge for decades. We have a great squad, promising youth, new stadium, amazing training ground, and have just signed 2 magnificent footballers and 2 very promising prospects.

If we play like we have so far we will get fucking battered at the shithole next week.

If Poch lost the dressing room then why sign his top targets? Why not part ways in the summer? Not questioning Vals info but all very odd timing.

Please not Mourinho though. Used to think he was fantastic at Porto and his first stint and Chelsea but if Poch has become divisive, then surely Jose should be last on our list?

Personally I hope that Poch buckles down and gets his head out his arse and gets back to being the positive, upbeat manager that has done so well for us for 5 years, and we ride this storm out.

Im not one for ITK at all, but I dont think anyone needs to be ITK to see that there is something rotten gnawing away at the dressing room right now. Too much of a bad smell to be nothing.