The beginning of the end...

[dricha1]

I’m frustrated cos it felt like this summer was different, okay not all squad gaps have been plugged but Dnombele, leCelso are exciting signings and were needed, sess too.

So we were set up for a good start for a change, but it just seems Poch is picking fights he doesn’t need to fight, and causing issues that weren’t there (Verts, Eriksen, Aurier)....and now we find ourselves 5pts off the pace and a NLD next....seems we Always go into the September internationals under a cloud, and all of our own making.

Not sure where Poch’s head is at but it doesn’t appear 100% with us

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Do we think that we don’t have the quality of player and squad to be where we want to be or (whisper it quietly) do we now after 6 years in charge have to take a little look towards our manager?

Yes it is early days so far this season and we need more time to judge us properly once the new signings have settled in etc and I’ll also add in that obviously the past few seasons we’ve had to deal with Wembley and a restricted budget so sure there are some excuses but right now we are a million miles away from the team we were when we ‘challenged’ Leicester and Chelsea for the title. I’d also add to this that teams do park the bus far more often against us especially at our new ground but that doesn’t excuse these performances since the 2nd half of last season with this sideways passing, laborious, slow,uninventive,messy football.

We haven’t blown away and dominated a team for a long time now and worryingly there are some real issues appearing which id like to know do we think this is due to the players we have not being good enough or is Poch starting to run out of ideas or dare is say it lose motivation for the ‘project’.

Some issues we need to address:
•fullbacks cannot cross or create much danger (strange because when we were at our best we had Walker and rose and we still have rose, so is KWP not up to it, is rose not his old self, or is it the formation and tactics?)
•Defence as a whole is far leakier than it has been for a long time under Poch, every time teams attack they look like scoring (again is this due to Sanchez and KWP/Trippier last year and us missing Walker and Jan or do we miss a wanyama/dier in front of the back 4 or a dembele to dominate games, or is the the tactics do we not press high enough or currently enough or at all?
•Midfield creativity (Sissoko and winks as a double pivot creates absoloutely fuck all time and time again, so are our players not good enough, do we need to rely on ndombele in there and when he’s not fit we struggle or is it again poch’s team selection?
•General creativity and style of play and goal threat? (We pass side to side so much now and generally look so much less of a threat than years gone by, our full backs are not scaring teams, erisken isn’t picking out dele with runs as erisken wants to leave and dele is often injured, lamela is poor, Kane is starved of service, our play is slow and we can’t get past teams that park the bus when Liverpool and city do it with ease most weeks), again is this because our players aren’t good enough? Sorry I don’t buy that when you have Lucas, Kane, son, erisken/lo celso, dele, sissoko, ndombele etc
•Formation : the diamond doesn’t seem to work, the 3 at the back often doesn’t work, today the 4-2-3-1 didn’t work (is this because our players aren’t good enough or don’t suit the system we are trying to play or is it partly pochs fault for changing the formation so often and mabye not buying the correct players to suit how he wants us to play?
•Motivation/fitness: the team just generally looks slower and less motivated than in the past, (are the players tired, some of them such as erisken, rose, Toby, Jan quite possibly want to leave, I feel like pochs fairly prickly recent press conferences don’t help the mood, is he losing faith and patcience and it’s rubbing off on the players?
•overall tactics etc: why not start Lucas in the CL final or away to city, why switch to this diamond? Is poch making bad decisions or is the squad not good enough or have the right balance?

It just feels like ON the pitch we have really started to stagnate and we have a few issues developing which is a little concerning.

I think it is a combination of factors such as new players needing time to bed in, some areas of the squad are just too weak and we still need to re-build but also I said it after the man.city game that I felt klopp is a better manager than poch and no way does a klopp team ever get so dominated by city 30 shots to 2! Sure Klopp has spent a bit more money but Liverpool have a very clear effective way of playing and just like at Dortmund he’s created and moulded a squad with a lower budget to compete with a dominant powerhouse (pep and Bayern/man.city) Poch is a great manager, one of the best we’ve had but he hasnt got us over the line to win anything the last 6 years and most worryingly as I said at the start of the post we look a million miles away from the team we did under him a few seasons back.

So is it the players and squad who aren’t good enough or do we need to start questioning poch at all?

I’ve not seen us so clueless and lacking in belief and ideas as we did today and this result has been coming for about 10-15 games where we’ve been pretty poor.

 

[LeParisien]

One minute everyone is bashing Levy because he’s gonna push poch out. 3 games later and everyone is trying to push poch out.

What a world

 

[Ronwol196061]

Before I start, let me clarify that this is not a knee jerk reaction. This is based on 9 months of football and many, many press conferences...

Poch is done. Finished. He doesn’t want to be here. I love the man because he has given us 5 fantastic years of which I would never have thought I would see. I am grateful for what he has done but I can also see when the end is due.

I also watch football with my eyes. And our football, the style of play and the passion, has been turgid since at least late December 2018. We have lost a lot of games of football during that period. And we deserved to lose those games.

Now some could say we were tired and the lack of investment affected the squad during that period. And I’m sure that was a contributing factor to our performances. But it doesn’t stand as an excuse for sideways, boring, narrow, dull and flat football. That is tactics. And that comes from the manager.

This season, we are playing without our best centre back. Seemingly due to Poch want to make a point. But it’s a detriment to the team. We scraped past Villa. We were appaling versus city. We were lucky to have 4 points. And today, we got what was coming.

Huge issues in our transfer policy. Where is the pace and where are the true ‘spursy’ players...the ones who get you off your seat!? Huge issues with our set up. Two defensive minded players who can’t play forward against Newcastle at home? Please. Sideways football. Not passion. No pace. It’s dull and turgid with a complete lack of direction.

I watched Liverpool vs Arsenal. Joel Matip, who is not anywhere near Toby in terms of quality, was paying forward with pace, determination and purpose. That comes from the coach. When we play, Toby labours and plays sideways. It’s a massive problem because our style of football has regressed at an alarming rate. We have been left behind.

The main issue stems from Poch and his current PR brigade. You can see in his demeanour, attitude and press conferences that he doesn’t want to be here. His comments in the press and the overall arrogance of his own self importance is affecting the team. He has ideas above his station. Reminds me of Eriksen....he has won nothing and flatters to deceive when it really matters. Yes, the champions league run was amazing but we had an unbelievable amount of luck.

I love Poch. I really do. But thanks for the memories. You don’t want us anymore and that is fine. You want to better yourself and believe you can do better elsewhere. So do us all a favour and say what you really mean. Stop the cryptic. You aren’t Mourinho. If you want to go, then go. And let Tottenham continue to grow...

It's possible Poch really isnt a great strategist.He has an idea. The original Bielsa idea. But cant think on his feet. The players were running around today like they have done many times..getting nowhere.
Two or three attacks from the opposition and we are wide open.
Its not the first time its many times. The only thing is we at times have been in a facade of outlasting the opposition with our superior stamina.
It's all bullshit believe me.
Creativity was always a problem to some extent.
Poch is not there with creativity.He doesnt see it himself he just sees the physicality of the system. He knows that wasn't good but he cant see further than that.
Limited

 

[THX2208]

I'm as apoplectic as the next person, but let's give it a few more games into the season before we declare an emergency. It's not looking great, sure, but there's a lot of fantasy in your post backed up by nothing more than gut feeling and illogical leaps that would make Greg Rutherford proud.

Have to agree with you buddy, I think I'm correct in saying we haven't won our first three games of a season in 6 years. It's far too early to call for Pochettino head but I understand the need to vent frustration but in a few weeks it could be completely different, if we are in a deep hole come Christmas than yes Pochettino will be in trouble. It's far too early to say that as we are notoriously slow starters.
COYS ????

 

[piedpiper]

I think it's clear that something isn't right.

We've gone from a dynamic, exciting , fast transitioning, high pressing young side to one that is completely one dimensional and almost playing at walking pace.

Poch has gone from everyone's amiable best mate to doing his best moody mourinho impression in every press conference

And to top it off we now are seeing players being publically called out and very clearly being made examples of, whereas it was previously a very much a 'one for all ' problems are kept in house type of vibe.

Beginning of the end maybe not but definitely the end of the beginning. I really think Poch needs to sort his head out here and get back to doing what brought him and us so much success and plaudits

Very Mourinho like...I'd hope he can pull it together until the seasons end. The moment he came out about moving on we should have parted ways. I think he's run out of ideas.

 

[felmani26]

Of course the notion that Poch has 3-4 games to turn around is ludicrous but there is valid criticism of Pochettino on many facets - his preparation (or seemingly lack of) and team selection coupled with a failing system(s) are prime examples of this.

There's a definite regression in our 'star' players too and undoubtedly the Champions League run has papered over cracks which were apparent well into last season.

These are all symptoms of real trouble behind the scenes, to suggest otherwise is just burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best or relying on individual brilliance.

 

[Saoirse]

Of course the notion that Poch has 3-4 games to turn around is ludicrous but there is valid criticism of Pochettino on many facets - his preparation (or seemingly lack of) and team selection coupled with a failing system(s) are prime examples of this.

There's a definite regression in our 'star' players too and undoubtedly the Champions League run has papered over cracks which were apparent well into last season.

These are all symptoms of real trouble behind the scenes, to suggest otherwise is just burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best or relying on individual brilliance.

Right now I wouldn't fancy us to get anything at Leicester, let alone the Emirates. Two home games in three points. That would put us on 7 from 7, somewhere between 5 and 7 away from the Top 4 and only a couple above relegation. At that point the pressure would be immense. I genuinely believe he'll be gone by Christmas.

 

[mike_l]

Just want to see us try Dier in midfield, doing what he used to do in covering the space vacated by our marauding CBs and recycle the ball to our playmakers. Have some combination of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Eriksen in front of him with Son, Kane and Moura making runs. Unfortunately, I think our dip in form coincides with our fullback play faltering, so until that's ironed out, I think we are going to appear unbalanced at times.

I think Poch was worried about that tactic having been found out a bit, the pundits were raving about it at every opportunity, so cleverly he has now cultivated a style of play where no one has a fucking clue what is going on, ingenious really...

 

[richard_gleeson]

The fact he started talking about leaving shows he thinks he could get bigger jobs elsewhere. Maybe some players have lost faith. I love him and really want him to succeed but I think he's caused his own problems. A couple of years ago we had so much energy and passion, it now seems so flat, not just the team but the club.

 

[Tucker]

Of course the notion that Poch has 3-4 games to turn around is ludicrous but there is valid criticism of Pochettino on many facets - his preparation (or seemingly lack of) and team selection coupled with a failing system(s) are prime examples of this.

There's a definite regression in our 'star' players too and undoubtedly the Champions League run has papered over cracks which were apparent well into last season.

These are all symptoms of real trouble behind the scenes, to suggest otherwise is just burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best or relying on individual brilliance.

I’d go as far as to say that our place in the top four had far more to do with our rivals poor form than it had to do with our own.

We’ve been shite since Christmas there’s no hiding from that.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Before I start, let me clarify that this is not a knee jerk reaction. This is based on 9 months of football and many, many press conferences...

Poch is done. Finished. He doesn’t want to be here. I love the man because he has given us 5 fantastic years of which I would never have thought I would see. I am grateful for what he has done but I can also see when the end is due.

I also watch football with my eyes. And our football, the style of play and the passion, has been turgid since at least late December 2018. We have lost a lot of games of football during that period. And we deserved to lose those games.

Now some could say we were tired and the lack of investment affected the squad during that period. And I’m sure that was a contributing factor to our performances. But it doesn’t stand as an excuse for sideways, boring, narrow, dull and flat football. That is tactics. And that comes from the manager.

This season, we are playing without our best centre back. Seemingly due to Poch want to make a point. But it’s a detriment to the team. We scraped past Villa. We were appaling versus city. We were lucky to have 4 points. And today, we got what was coming.

Huge issues in our transfer policy. Where is the pace and where are the true ‘spursy’ players...the ones who get you off your seat!? Huge issues with our set up. Two defensive minded players who can’t play forward against Newcastle at home? Please. Sideways football. Not passion. No pace. It’s dull and turgid with a complete lack of direction.

I watched Liverpool vs Arsenal. Joel Matip, who is not anywhere near Toby in terms of quality, was paying forward with pace, determination and purpose. That comes from the coach. When we play, Toby labours and plays sideways. It’s a massive problem because our style of football has regressed at an alarming rate. We have been left behind.

The main issue stems from Poch and his current PR brigade. You can see in his demeanour, attitude and press conferences that he doesn’t want to be here. His comments in the press and the overall arrogance of his own self importance is affecting the team. He has ideas above his station. Reminds me of Eriksen....he has won nothing and flatters to deceive when it really matters. Yes, the champions league run was amazing but we had an unbelievable amount of luck.

I love Poch. I really do. But thanks for the memories. You don’t want us anymore and that is fine. You want to better yourself and believe you can do better elsewhere. So do us all a favour and say what you really mean. Stop the cryptic. You aren’t Mourinho. If you want to go, then go. And let Tottenham continue to grow...

Agree with a lot of this, good post, certainly has been looking this way for 9 months, I really think he was hoping so so badly for that fairytale CL win so he could move on and now he’s like a guy stuck in a 9-5 job rut who has just been asked by his boss to create and be part of this new project and he will toe the party line a little longer as he is a man of principles but it could well be best if at the end of this season we part company both ways and start a fresh, as you say we can continue to grow and so can poch. Such a shame we didn’t win something a few years back when we were at our peak with that team but hey ho thanks for the memories.

 

[glacierSpurs]

If he walks, do it soon.
If he stays, he needs to buck up

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The fact he started talking about leaving shows he thinks he could get bigger jobs elsewhere. Maybe some players have lost faith. I love him and really want him to succeed but I think he's caused his own problems. A couple of years ago we had so much energy and passion, it now seems so flat, not just the team but the club.

Agree. I really think a lot of this stems from his fucking annoying PR and press conferences.

 

[riggi]

Off the field stuff worries me more. What a dire atmosphere we play in.

 

[Ronwol196061]

I really think Poch is a control freak.
He holds on to limited ideas.He talks about changing the system Im not sure if he can

 

[jolegend]

If this isn’t a knee jerk reaction then why not post it a few days ago? Or wait a few days and post it then. You could have come out with this any time.

This is massively a knee jerk reaction, it’s linked directly to today’s result, the timing gives it away.

Personally, I think it’s obvious that this is Pochs last season with us, that’s based on nothing but a hunch though.

We were awful against villa and got away with. Thought I’d let it go because it was the first game.

City was men against boys but we got a point. Thought I’d let I go.

Today? No excuse.

And all this before our shocking form last year. And Poch being difficult in his pressers for ages.

So I think I’ve been patient enough in writing the thread. Today’s result isn’t an anomaly. It’s a theme.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I really think Poch is a control freak.
He holds on to limited ideas.He talks about changing the system Im not sure if he can

He is 100% a control freak and I know that for a fact from a source who works with him and the players day in day out. That’s not nessercarily a bad thing in that job to be fair but it can have its negatives for sure

 

[felmani26]

I’d go as far as to say that our place in the top four had far more to do with our rivals poor form than it had to do with our own.

We’ve been shite since Christmas there’s no hiding from that.

Agreed to an extent - in essence we were 'less shit' than Arsenal and Utd.

A top four finish last season was not wholly vindication of a successful season - certainly not a progressive one.

 

[Monkey boy]

Think people are being overly harsh on the OP even though it probably wasn’t the best timing to start this thread. I agree with most that this season will be Poch last but unfortunately rather than going out in a blaze of glory he’ll go with a whimper.