The beginning of the end...

[Shadydan]

I'm not suggesting magically everything will be okay by changing captain. I'm making a suggestion/posing a rationale question. Rather than shipping Poch out the door as the only conclusion or solution to our current slump.

Yeah but I don't think who the captain is is an issue at all.

 

[AllReb]

I’m frustrated cos it felt like this summer was different, okay not all squad gaps have been plugged but Dnombele, leCelso are exciting signings and were needed, sess too.

So we were set up for a good start for a change, but it just seems Poch is picking fights he doesn’t need to fight, and causing issues that weren’t there (Verts, Eriksen, Aurier)....and now we find ourselves 5pts off the pace and a NLD next....seems we Always go into the September internationals under a cloud, and all of our own making.

Not sure where Poch’s head is at but it doesn’t appear 100% with us

I’m finding his press conferences worrying
He just doesn’t seem to care anymore
Just saying ‘disappointed ‘ to all fans who want an explanation for that dire performance on Sunday isn’t good enough imv

 

[Gareth88]

Yeah but I don't think who the captain is is an issue at all.

Fair enough

 

[WannaDanceWithUdogie]

.

 

[Gb160]

Ive never really been worried before about Poch leaving, even through all the numerous times he's been linked with other jobs and he's never ruled himself out.
But I'm a little worried right now if im honest, im not resigned to him definitely going as some posters seem to be, or in denial that everything is going to be fine like others....I'm somewhere in the middle, and I always thought he'd leave on a high.

 

[Primativ]

I'm not suggesting magically everything will be okay by changing captain. I'm making a suggestion/posing a rationale question. Rather than shipping Poch out the door as the only conclusion or solution to our current slump.

Have to say I’ve never been a fan of Lloris being captain. Not a fan of GKs being captain, prefer outfield. Lloris doesn’t strike me as real captain material, he’s quite often been the one who has cost us games.

Always felt in the big games he’s not influential enough to drive the team on to win.

 

[fecka]

This post turned out way longer than I expected but please bear with me.

To begin with, I absolutely adore Poch and I think he has taken us to places I actually didn't think were possible with a narrow 2nd place finish in the league, league cup final and CL final. When he started his career as a Spurs manager I actually preferred Frank de Boer as our option but was soon convinced by Poch's positive demeanor and ideas on the pitch. It didn't take long to see that he wanted to play an aggressive, direct football that saw us finish 6th with a midfield of Mason and Bentaleb with Kaboul as a center piece in defense. We were pressing and running hard, so hard in fact that if I'm not mistaken we were the team that had the most distance covered out of all teams by far, i.e we were working HARD.
Needless to say, we had an identity and we looked to attack and defend with purpose and a clear idea in mind. No matter who we played I thought we had a good shot at winning.

Moving on to our last season, no one can blame Poch for being upset by our transfer dealings and our bad luck with injuries. He had to put square pegs in round holes out of necessity and I somewhat understand his change of demeanor. Already from the first day we could see the performances not being very convincing and turgid. It was understandable however as we had players who came from the WC with no pre-season and Son missing out due to national team duties. Somehow we got a good start and decent results in a lot of games with late winners with the occasional worrying result (i.e Watford).
A few games in I was hoping the performances would pick up but they never did and our start of the CL campaign was abominal but we somehow made it through and while I was euphoric I was also worried at the same time because I could never predict how we would perform and I started to assume that we would either get a draw or a loss and from around christmas to the end of the campaign it got worse by every game.
We stopped moving with purpose and looked out of ideas. Still, it was understandable due to all the detrimental factors mentioned earlier as well as the stadium debacle. We stumbled over the line into 4th and reached a CL final which was way more than I expected out of last season and I was really happy with what we accomplished despite everything.

This pre-season I thought that with rest and the Stadium troubles behind us we would look like a new team with an injection of new signings, albeit a few of them a bit too late in the window.
However, to my disappointment the team and mostly Poch, seem to have carried on the same negative mentality and looking absolutely exhausted and turgid during all of pre-season except for our first game against Juve. This has also carried on 3 games into the season where we absolutely lucked out a result against City, had a proper scare against Villa and never looked like scoring against Newcastle despite 80% possession.
During all of this Poch has gone darker and moodier by the week. In his first seasons he would stand in the technical area, shouting to his players to push and press. Nowadays he seems to just sulk in his seat.

This is a very worrying trend we're in and I'm worried that Poch doesn't have what it takes to take us out of this slump himself. We look clueless and honestly badly coached in attack and defence and if I remember correctly Poch stated something along the lines in his interview after the game that our individual quality should have gotten us through the game. Looking at that it seems that we're unconciously not playing like a proper team anymore but rather hoping to be bailed out by individual moments.

People used to call Claudio Ranieri Tinkerman as a jest due him always tinkering with tactics and almost never playing the same eleven twice. Unfortunately this is what I'm starting to see in Poch. Either he doesn't trust himself, his tactics or the players anymore and while neither of us know the full reason for our utterly unacceptable league form, I don't think it's knee-jerk to be worried about the situation.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually suggesting that we fire him as of now but I do believe that the Newcastle game was only a catalyst for this thread and could understandably be seen as knee-jerk by some but in the end it is seen as the final straw by others.

 

[GMI]

That shit about leaving if he won. Seriously that was abject and cringeworthy but more tellingingly, saying that on the eve of the clubs biggest game not only sent the wrong message to the fans but to the players as well. It was wierd shit of the highest order. The ‘I am staying, no I am going’ BS has been going on for a while. It is totally unprofessional.

.

Agreed. Imagine if Eriksen or Jan went to the press before the CL Final saying something similar. I suspect Poch would have dropped them like a stone. That’s my main issue. The way he is talking recently is hypocritical and contrary to the ‘togetherness ‘ and focus he requires of his players.

Hopefully words are exchanged in the next few days, if there are issues in the dressing room, and a united spirit can be restored....in time for a famous victory against Ar@£al at the weekend.

 

[Dougal]

This post turned out way longer than I expected but please bear with me.

To begin with, I absolutely adore Poch and I think he has taken us to places I actually didn't think were possible with a narrow 2nd place finish in the league, league cup final and CL final. When he started his career as a Spurs manager I actually preferred Frank de Boer as our option but was soon convinced by Poch's positive demeanor and ideas on the pitch. It didn't take long to see that he wanted to play an aggressive, direct football that saw us finish 6th with a midfield of Mason and Bentaleb with Kaboul as a center piece in defense. We were pressing and running hard, so hard in fact that if I'm not mistaken we were the team that had the most distance covered out of all teams by far, i.e we were working HARD.
Needless to say, we had an identity and we looked to attack and defend with purpose and a clear idea in mind. No matter who we played I thought we had a good shot at winning.

Moving on to our last season, no one can blame Poch for being upset by our transfer dealings and our bad luck with injuries. He had to put square pegs in round holes out of necessity and I somewhat understand his change of demeanor. Already from the first day we could see the performances not being very convincing and turgid. It was understandable however as we had players who came from the WC with no pre-season and Son missing out due to national team duties. Somehow we got a good start and decent results in a lot of games with late winners with the occasional worrying result (i.e Watford).
A few games in I was hoping the performances would pick up but they never did and our start of the CL campaign was abominal but we somehow made it through and while I was euphoric I was also worried at the same time because I could never predict how we would perform and I started to assume that we would either get a draw or a loss and from around christmas to the end of the campaign it got worse by every game.
We stopped moving with purpose and looked out of ideas. Still, it was understandable due to all the detrimental factors mentioned earlier as well as the stadium debacle. We stumbled over the line into 4th and reached a CL final which was way more than I expected out of last season and I was really happy with what we accomplished despite everything.

This pre-season I thought that with rest and the Stadium troubles behind us we would look like a new team with an injection of new signings, albeit a few of them a bit too late in the window.
However, to my disappointment the team and mostly Poch, seem to have carried on the same negative mentality and looking absolutely exhausted and turgid during all of pre-season except for our first game against Juve. This has also carried on 3 games into the season where we absolutely lucked out a result against City, had a proper scare against Villa and never looked like scoring against Newcastle despite 80% possession.
During all of this Poch has gone darker and moodier by the week. In his first seasons he would stand in the technical area, shouting to his players to push and press. Nowadays he seems to just sulk in his seat.

This is a very worrying trend we're in and I'm not suggesting we fire Poch in the nearest future but at the same time I'm worried that he doesn't have what it takes to take us out of this slump himself. We look clueless and honestly badly coached in attack and defence and if I remember correctly Poch stated something along the lines in his interview after the game that our individual quality should have gotten us through the game. Looking at that it seems that we're unconciously not playing like a proper team anymore but rather hoping to be bailed out by individual moments.

People used to call Claudio Ranieri Tinkerman as a jest due him always tinkering with tactics and almost never playing the same eleven twice. Unfortunately this is what I'm starting to see in Poch. Either he doesn't trust himself, his tactics or the players anymore and while neither of us know the full reason for our utterly unacceptable league form, I don't think it's knee-jerk to be worried about the situation.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually suggesting that we fire him as of now but I do believe that the Newcastle game was only a catalyst for this thread and could understandably be seen as knee-jerk by some but in the end it is seen as the final straw by others.

There’s being worried about our form and then there’s starting a thread titled ‘The beginning of the end’. Nobody is suggesting everything is rosy either. But it seems to some the only option is a change of management. Frankly I think that’s ludicrous but other people are entitled to their opinion. In the end it’s nothing more than opinions during a poor run and they are bound to be leaning towards pessimism.

 

[AllReb]

In all seriousness since the CL final and with every Poch press conference after that I've not been able to shake this thought Mourinho will end up as our coach at some point. If Poch doesn't get us out of this rut, it'll happen.

Come on Poch, sort it out

Well it would certainly shut some of the moaners up as Mourinho would probably win us some trophies ?
Whatever else he is he’s a winner

Not for me though as his brand of football has never inspired me

Having said that neither has ours recently

 

[fecka]

There’s being worried about our form and then there’s starting a thread titled ‘The beginning of the end’. Nobody is suggesting everything is rosy either. But it seems to some the only option is a change of management. Frankly I think that’s ludicrous but other people are entitled to their opinion. In the end it’s nothing more than opinions during a poor run and they are bound to be leaning towards pessimism.

I agree that the title is exaggerated and some might be coming across as a bit too impatient but I haven't really seen anyone actually calling for Pochettinos head already?

 

[Gilzeanking]

An aspect to the probs that I'd emphasise is yes , we no longer get so many goals from our forward press (because it hardly exists)

..But we had an absolute beast at CF...top of the scoring charts season in season out . This is a key issue . Yes we conceded a goal to the Geordies...but beast mode Kane would have had a say imo. Beast mode Kane disappeared Jan '19.

We have simply lost that player ....at the moment . Bafflingly he has stopped moving/battling..this is a huge loss to our potency .
injuries ,politics ? who knows . Our decline and his form declined together in tandem.

 

[Hotspur88]

A little bit.

Care to share?

 

[Shadydan]

Care to share?

VY said that he's been told that Poch has lost the dressing room.

Don't know that justifies over 69 pages of complete meltdown though.

 

[Dougal]

I agree that the title is exaggerated and some might be coming across as a bit too impatient but I haven't really seen anyone actually calling for Pochettinos head already?

I don’t think people are expecting Mourinho to be his assistant.

 

[spursfan77]

During the summer Poch gave the players mixed messages with his press conferences over leaving or not regarding the CL final.

How does he expect his players to give their all when he’s been on record being airy fairy about his?

I suspect that’s the real problem here.

 

[fecka]

VY said that he's been told that Poch has lost the dressing room.

And Ali Z suggested something similar but not as dramatic as losing the whole dressing room.

 

[fecka]

I don’t think people are expecting Mourinho to be his assistant.

Hasn't that been more about if and when Poch leaves than actually saying that we should get Mourinho in now?

 

[Hotspur88]

VY said that he's been told that Poch has lost the dressing room.

Don't know that justifies over 69 pages of complete meltdown though.

****

 

[Dougal]

Hasn't that been more about if and when Poch leaves than actually saying that we should get Mourinho in now?

Talking about his replacement is basically skipping past the point where he sorts the mess out. To be at that point is to nullify Poch’s position. It’s tantamount to having him leave in my book and shows a complete disrespect to his abilities.