The beginning of the end...

[fishhhandaricecake]

There are so many parts to what is going on it can be hard to pinpoint exactly what is happening. However put all the following points together and you can understand why people are questioning if this is the beginning of the end.

1. Poch is not coming across as the Poch of old. He appears jaded with it all and is so touchy when asked perfectly reasonable questions at Press Conferences. E.g "How is Eriksen's contract situation affecting matters?" Thats not an unreasonable question even if its asked 50 times. As a premier league manger press conferences are a big part of the job as fans like to know what is going on even if you aint telling the truth. Without a decent Press conference things become like the White House right now with no Press briefings happening and people feeling like they have no idea what the fuck is going on.

2. Poch seems so rigid in his tactical thinking to the point that we are suffering because of it. We should have made a half time sub today if not earlier as it clearly was not working. He seems so reticent to change and either cannot adapt on the fly or believes he knows best and won't adapt even if it means we end up being abysmal for a full 90 minutes.

3. We signed NDombele one of the premier midfield options on the market. A truly game changing type signing along with LO Celso and Sessegnon who I believe is going to be a massive signing for us. Yet Poch has not been invigorated in anyway by these signings and seems so utterly fed up with it all.

4. If Levy is such a genius how can 3 of our best players all be able to walk away for nothing at the end of the season. Their situation is destabilizing the whole team. Yes it is not black and white and having been in business myself for god knows how many years I understand the nuances and vagaries of HR. However it does not take a genius to realize what is going to happen when CE,TA and JV are all in a state of flux.

5. Pochs attitude to this whole player contract situation is odd. We all knew for the last year or so that the transfer window closes a full month before the European window. So you should cut your cloth accordingly. Verts for me is one of my favorite ever players for Spurs and I have been at this for a good while so dont say that lightly. Yes he might not be fit but if that is the case then come out and say it and stop with all the "Confucius says" bullshit. Coming out with vague weird phrases like" the team is the team and I am the team and we are the team and I pick the team this week and this is the team and next week this is the team". It helps no-one.If he is dropped and that's your choice and you are willing to live or die be it fine that is your right as manager But don't be surprised when it all goes tits up like today.

6. Along with the contract situations you have the RB issue as well as the Left back issue as Danny Rose was allowed to discuss leaving for god knows how long. Fullbacks are integral to how Poch likes to play so why are we in this position that Serge is clearly not fancied and KWP is just starting to establish himself.

7. Kane is undroppable and that is having a major major say in what happens on days like today. He has not been great for many months now and if he isn't firing but still playing it affects the team massively.

These are not al the issues but you can see that things are not quite right and perhaps Poch saying that he would have left if we won the Champions League shows what he really wants and where his head really is at. Why the fuck would you want to leave a team who has just won the biggest prize on club football. Wouldn't you want to revel in it and push on to even more accomplishments. Imagine if Klopp or Pep had said that we would all have been like WTF.

What a brilliant post mate, agree with all of this.
And poch’s pressers are starting to really piss the fans off, if he doesn’t want to be here then he can go with erisken as well, like you say why on earth would you say that if we won the CL he’d leave? How about build a dynasty or revel in the glory and try and kick on etc, he’s an odd guy. Fuck knows what goes on behind the scenes and if he’s not getting his way or whatever and he’s just fed up of it but if so then leave, like you say we signed some top players this summer but he doesn’t seem to be at all enthused about that either. It’s so interesting how the managers mood etc effects a team.
Cases in point:
-Pep: always merticulous calm and confident (team plays accordingly)
-Klopp: always bouncy and positive and energetic (team plays accordingly)
-Poch: starts being aloof and moody and depressed and negative, oh guess what the team starts to play in a similar vein.

other cases:
Jose at Chelsea first time : so much confidence and arrogance) teams plays accordingly and wins.
Jose at Man.U : moody and confrontational (team plays the same)

Fergie: bullish and aggressive : team plays the same
Kevin keegan at newc : overly emotional, irrational (guess what his team threw away a huge Lead)

What happens and is said at pressers and the mood and the tone very often reflect what is going on, on and off the pitch. A manager is only human.

 

[richard_gleeson]

Under poch (improvement)

Lloris - same
Right back - got worse (recruitment)
Centre Defence - started solid when Toby signed but got worse (contracts)
Left back - same

Dier - started great, got worse (wanted to leave?)
Wanyama - see dier
Eriksen - improved
Son - massively improved
Kane - improved but lately worse
Lamela - improved but not great
Dele - see dier
Sissoko - improved but probably only confidence

That's not much improvemrnt recently

 

[Gb160]

If we are adrift by end of September, I think he is in trouble.

If you think Levy is going to ditch the manager he's been searching for, for 15 years , in September then I suggest you think a little harder.
The bloke has got Levy CL in 3/4 seasons, only way he'd get the tin tack mid season is if we were in relegation trouble, and that aint gonna happen.
He could finish outside top 4 and still not get the sack this summer imo, Levy isn't daft, he knows he owes Poch that at the minimum.
Finding the right manager to work under Levys conditions is a fucking minefield.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This is what concerns me because the message between coach and player - one which was supposedly his MO much like Klopp's 'Gegenpress' - hasn't been translated on the pitch for a long, long time.

And this whole oh it’s because we’ve adapted to the champions league or saving energy across a season bullshit can stop. Liverpool and city do it week in week out.

 

[jolegend]

Yes, we played final in the CL, but lets be honest, we were very very lucky. We almost got eliminated in the group stage and we were lucky against both Man C and Ajax. And remember, we also lost more game than we had done in many many years.

With that said, the final is a memory for life.

The final was amazing and an incredible achievement. But I agree, we were very lucky.

I also don’t understand why we should be so overwhelmed and in awe that we got to a final. We didnt win it. Surely, winning is all that matters. Give it 2-3 years, and no one in Europe (other than Ajax!) will remember it was us who got there. It’s short term gratitude. But long term, it doesn’t really matter. We lost and Poch shouldn’t get a free pass for it.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Under poch (improvement)

Lloris - same
Right back - got worse (recruitment)
Centre Defence - started solid when Toby signed but got worse (contracts)
Left back - same

Dier - started great, got worse (wanted to leave?)
Wanyama - see dier
Eriksen - improved
Son - massively improved
Kane - improved but lately worse
Lamela - improved but not great
Dele - see dier
Sissoko - improved but probably only confidence

That's not much improvemrnt recently

What an interesting post, I’ve never thought of it like that. That kind of shows the reality really doesn’t it

 

[CowInAComa]

This is what concerns me because the message between coach and player - one which was supposedly his MO much like Klopp's 'Gegenpress' - hasn't been translated on the pitch for a long, long time.

Yep. We've totally lost our identity. We were the original premier league high press team, and when it was performed well it was fucking exhilarating. Havent seen it for a long time now.

It seems to me, once Klopp and Pep came along with a similar game plan Poch just dropped it. Again, maybe ego? Maybe he thought he wanted to have his own Poch thing.. i dont know. Instead we've got the AVB thing again, and its fucking appalling to watch as it was back then.

 

[tototoner]

Knee Jerk thread maybe but Pochettino hasn't won an away game since January. We have also won only 4 matches in last 15.

 

[jolegend]

If you think Levy is going to ditch the manager he's been searching for, for 15 years , in September then I suggest you think a little harder.
The bloke has got Levy CL in 3/4 seasons, only way he'd get the tin tack mid season is if we were in relegation trouble, and that aint gonna happen.
He could finish outside top 4 and still not get the sack this summer imo, Levy isn't daft, he knows he owes Poch that at the minimum.
Finding the right manager to work under Levys conditions is a fucking minefield.

Levy is ruthless. If it isn’t working, he will go. And if anyone will know it isn’t working, Levy will know before anyone else.

You don’t built a multi-billion pound business on sentiment.

 

[Gb160]

Levy is ruthless. If it isn’t working, he will go. And if anyone will know it isn’t working, Levy will know before anyone else.

You don’t built a multi-billion pound business on sentiment.

And you dont bite off your nose to spite your face...
Its absolutely nothing to do with sentiment, its common business sense.

 

[Seafordian Spurs]

Cryptic again. I can’t work out what he is saying at all. So is there a problem in the squad? If so, who is the issue because apparently we have been a good team for years?

As much as Eriksen has been a pain, I doubt he is the type to affect that team dynamic.

All I can see is poor football and tactics that haven’t changed since last year. So maybe he needs to do something a bit different.

I don't think it's cryptic it's just the first sentence doesn't make much grammatical sense!

He is stating quite explicitly that there is a lack of team spirit at the moment due to the uncertainty around some players and, for Poch, team spirit as well as quality is important.

 

[mpickard2087]

I've said before that on the law of averages after 5 (this being 6) years of Poch we're closer to the end than the beginning and it's something fans need to start preparing for. I don't think he's in imminent danger though and nor should he be, and we're still in August FFS after all and in no way cut adrift yet.

(League) Performances this calendar year though have been pretty woeful, masked somewhat by stumbling over the line in the cripple fight for a top 4 place and the CL rollercoaster run, and show no signs of improving. Just said in the ratings thread that the most damning thing I can say about Poch currently, words I didn't think I would ever say, is that we just look a badly coached outfit at present. With the ball we have no idea, without it our press and structure and compactness has disintegrated in the last couple of years.

In terms of our football I don't actually think much has changed. We've always been a team that slowly knocked the ball around the back and shuffled it wide and then in the final third relying on individual play and hoping it clicked together in the moment. Progressing the ball through the middle of the park has always been a weakness, and we never rely on attacking structures and pattern play. However now with oppositions just sitting off even further against us, and not scared by our wide play so can be more compact, plus individuals losing their spark this is getting highlighted even more and being shown up.

This is the main area where Poch's coaching and approach really needs to evolve. There needs to be much more of a plan as to how we are looking to break teams down, where players should be on the pitch and how they're linking with those around them, and a better structure for players to fall back on. With emphasis also on speeding up the play and cutting down the number of touches players are having on the ball (this has always been a bug bear for me, in all versions of Poch's team). New life is needed in our possession play, and that doesn't just come from shiny new signings.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

If you think Levy is going to ditch the manager he's been searching for, for 15 years , in September then I suggest you think a little harder.
The bloke has got Levy CL in 3/4 seasons, only way he'd get the tin tack mid season is if we were in relegation trouble, and that aint gonna happen.
He could finish outside top 4 and still not get the sack this summer imo, Levy isn't daft, he knows he owes Poch that at the minimum.
Finding the right manager to work under Levys conditions is a fucking minefield.

This.

 

[wrd]

I've calmed down since the result a lot, the performances of last season were poor however I wonder if we are carrying around a mental fatigue from losing that final. I get that impression from Poch but also the players, I get the feeling it's going to take a fucking long time to recover.

 

[markiespurs]

This is what concerns me because the message between coach and player - one which was supposedly his MO much like Klopp's 'Gegenpress' - hasn't been translated on the pitch for a long, long time.

To me, this shows the downside of having a goalkeeper as Captain.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Yep. We've totally lost our identity. We were the original premier league high press team, and when it was performed well it was fucking exhilarating. Havent seen it for a long time now.

It seems to me, once Klopp and Pep came along with a similar game plan Poch just dropped it. Again, maybe ego? Maybe he thought he wanted to have his own Poch thing.. i dont know. Instead we've got the AVB thing again, and its fucking appalling to watch as it was back then.

We certainly have the AVB downward spiral right now lol

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

To me, this shows the downside of having a goalkeeper as Captain.

Agree. He’s never been a good choice as captain, France won the World Cup as their team was miles better than anyone else’s. So so gutted we didn’t win the league 3-4 seasons ago or FA cup when we fucked up the semi finals or CL when we scraped to the final and Liverpool had an off day. I feel like this ‘transition’ is now going to be very tricky.

We really still need:
2 new full backs
A LCB
A winger with trickery and genuine threat and pace
A replacement for erisken
ANother striker option to rival Kane

 

[Matthew]

Interesting quote from Poch

Of course the problem is during the week, when you arrive at the competition maybe it can affect but I think we should with a bit more today be winning. This type of stuff happens in the Premier League and that's why you not only need quality players, you need a very good dynamic, and strong team bond and at the moment that situation in our group is still far far away from what we expect.

Speaking shit riddle again

 

[Phomesy]

Off the field stuff worries me more. What a dire atmosphere we play in.

Awful.

Everyone’s too busy posting shit I. The in

Again this, how do you go from the aggressive pressing that had so many opposing managers calling us “monsters” and “they just don’t stop” to the turgid side to side shit, don’t pass me the ball im a passenger in a short space of time, either the players have lost faith, or poch has lost interest, either way it doesn’t end well!

the other side has to have the ball for a press to work.

That’s our Achilles heel

 

[Gb160]

Until we know what truly is going on between Poch and Vertonghen, I’m inclined the blame the manager. Purely because Vertonghen has said in the media he loves the club and wants to stay.

If Jan played today, that goal doesn’t happen.

100% this.
Its really fucking odd, as a CB himself Poch must surely see how much weaker we are without Jan, so something quite serious has occurred between the 2 of them imo.
But Poch aint daft...there has to be reasoning behind the decision to leave him out.