The beginning of the end...

[fortworthspur]

We aren't just struggling at the moment though, we have clearly been struggling for a year! Do you not remember the piss poor performances nearly every single week last season?

that simply isnt true. we've been struggling since February when Dele and Kane and some others went out injured and Dembele left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season

 

[Anselmix]

As heard and noticed several times, Poch behaviour has changed dramatically during last months. He seems to be in bad mood most of the time and he is giving very weird comments in public.
That all together with comments he has lost the dressing room makes perfect sense.

He is still keeping his hope up and perhaps trying to get rid of few players with whom he does not get along, during this window. Those players are from the top, otherwise this would have been solved out already.
That would be his only chance to get back on track with the team. I don`t see good option in this scenario so he is practically out already.

 

[Mr Pink]

you would struggle to press when there is 10 men behind the ball. I agree with movement, and feel when we are wide we don't try and get to the byeline and get crosses in

Yeah, pressing in general I meant. Very different when bottom half teams come and park the bus.

There is a general lack of desire spread right through out our game, and it's been going on for too long.

I just want Poch to reenergise this team, as without the intensity he/we can't control the game at a slow rate and change the pace of our passing and moving game to carve open teams lying deep. That's what Barca used to do and we ain't them.

Remember the intensity from a couple of seasons back, teams couldn't live with us... Peps first visit to the Lane...

 

[bat-chain]

You've not lost me Mauricio. Not in the slightest.

We need to be very careful here. Poch will be fine he'll turn up at Real or Utd. Us on the other hand...

 

[The Doc]

This is my major frustration. We spend the first 20 mins with no tempo, aggression or purpose. Happy to tippy tap it side to side in our own half racking up possession %

Brendan Rogers would get more out of this team right now. What an awful thing to say. But it's true. The year he nearly won the league at Liverpool they must have scored in the first 10 minutes a dozen or more times. They absolutely flew out of the blocks. Please someone do the stats and see how many goals in the first 15 we've scored in the last 2 seasons. You could maybe even extend that to the whole of the first half.

When you piss about doing that, and don't defend properly ala villa and Newcastle, you've thrown away 20 mins and suddenly everything becomes rushed/frantic/desperate. Not saying we could so that every week, but Newcastle at home is as winnable as they come in this league

I very much doubt Brendan Rogers would do as you suggest. Remind me again what he won at Liverpool? The "nearly" team was almost completely inherited, and hinged around two players having an incredible season. He managed to alienate one of those (Suarez) in preseason, and needed Gerrard's (the second) help to smooth things over. His job was to sort out the defence, which he singularly failed to do. Even accounting for that outlier, comparisons with Poch's PL record are risible. Let's see how we look from 02 September and go from there eh?

 

[Primativ]

that simply isnt true. we've been struggling since February when Dele and Son and some others went out injured and Dembele left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season

What on earth does that show me? There were loads of poor performances in the first half of the season, I know because everyone was discussing it on here, we were all saying that we were getting away with it results wise and we weren't playing very well.

 

[Tonio]

We didn't struggle against Villa. We absolutely dominated them from start to finish.

And we dominated Newcastle too. It wasn't effort lacking it was inspiration. That is as much down to Poch's team selection I suppose but not evidence of players "not playing for him".

In that time we've also got results against City and some European giants.

Once we're injury free we can assess. But I can't be the only one perturbed by how easily we are torching a manager who has got us to where we are.

Maybe it's the supporters letting the team down. There was no "12th man" at WHL yesterday. Can't imagine what Lo celso made of it...

Oh the players were playing for him alright. Its the system they're playing is the big issue. I dont buy the fans not supporting the team properly. The players would have still played the same. Its pointless having all the possession if were not going to do anything with it. Sideways pass, trap the ball, touch the ball , pass sideways, repeat. Hopeful of a cross into the area finding a head. Its fucking stagnant and there's no sign of it changing. I hope it does don't get me wrong but it looks properly bleak.

 

[shelfboy68]

to be honest when they had on average of 6-8 bodies in the area every time a good chance they will get to most of them. we might of had 38 crosses but only 3 possibly 4 went to our players who failed to connect

3/4 out of 38 is still a dreadful statistic mate I appreciate your doing your best to dress it up but not many will buy this.

 

[Tonio]

So west ham is bigger than Liverpool and City and Everton e.t.c

that's your comeback?. FML.

 

[murichej]

Poch is done. This is very very sad and painful to admit as he's done lots of good things to Spurs, but he's done.

I've been to my first Spurs match in life last year against Leicester at Wembley. Did we won? Yes, somehow. Did I enjoy the game, and how we played? Not at all. And I am not enjoying watching Spurs games for last 15 months. No identity in the team any more, no energy, creativity etc. It's simply done and needs refreshening. CL run last year was superb but most of matches were meh and very painful to watch for me.

We are in a downward spiral and it just looks impossible to get back on track again. Fair play to Levy for signings this time but I am afraid they are 1 year late. Who to blame, doesn't even matter, sometimes things just don't work out. Players feel it too I think and it reflects them, hence bad after bad after bad performance.

If I look from Levy POV, he will not allow a collapse after all positives in the last years (stadium, top 4 finishes, signings, CL finals) but should seek for a additional boost. What we definitely can't afford is to lose all momentum and whole season same way as Arsenal did with Wenger in his last season.

Who fits in well in this case (marketing purposes, trophies, attracting players...)? Not really a million dollar question.. like it or not, it's probably the reality and only logical step. It might end good or bad, who knows.

And don't forget, future is bright! Always believe!

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

None of this would be happening if we had more than 15 points from our last 15 games. None of this would be happening if Poch showed some level of commitment to the club.

Not really sure why everyone focussing on the end to last season, there was a job to do, get top 4 and we did it. The start to this season would have been fine if we won yesterday so basically it just comes down to losing yesterday.

How exactly do you want Poch to show commitment ? Maybe sign a 5 year contract when many clubs bigger than us want him ? Or stay with us when we spend nothing for 18 months ? Or do you need him to get a COYS tattoo on his arm to evidence his commitment ?

 

[Phomesy]

Sorry but that is fanciful. We dominated Newcastle? 3 shots in 90 minutes, 2 on target? If we dominated Newcastle, what on earth did City do to us last week?

You don't think there was a lack of effort? I thought there was a clear lack of effort, particularly movement. The team had no faith, no confidence. There was also a clear lack of strategy, idea, game plan, fluidity, technique, creativity, and a dozen other things you need to win football matches.

Funny how people can see such different things.

Clearly I was referring to the %80 possession which is nothing else shows we were adhering to the Poch gameplan of playing in our half and trying to score through overwhelming territorial dominance. This gameplan succeeded in that territorial dominance but failed in just about every other objective. I'm not saying that everything's great just pointing out that the players are playing Poch's game - whether its working or not.

Against Villa we should have had 3 goals by half-time. It can't be included in any doom-mongering. Or at least it shouldn't.

Perhaps the City game depressed us? Possible easily.

 

[Mick1980]

First post, so go easy on me please!

But I felt compelled to give my opinion as a long time lurker! I am by no means saying everyone is wrong, and I am right, it’s just now I see things myself.

I have been supporting spurs for 30 years now. It is of course so evident that we are in a much better place now than we have ever been. Levy has been slow, but shrewd, and has got there in the end with the infrastructure, and has done it all in such a way that we are operating soundly on a business level.

His business sense is pretty much the best we could ever hope for; his footballing decisions questionable at times. I think there was an element of luck in selecting Poch as our new manager, and probably did not expect the success we have achieved. But the word success is interesting, as we haven’t actually won anything under Poch.

Poch suited us at an ideal time where we cried out for that type of manager. Yes, we should appreciate that we are in a better place now than we have ever been, but times have changed. We now as fans have an expectance to kick on, to match the infrastructure that has been laid before us. Our owners have invested and provided the platform to succeed and now is the time to deliver.

Poch got the best out of Southampton, and he got the best out of us for some time, but it’s now time to kick on again. It simply does not work having the approach of “if we have as much possession as possible, then they can’t score.” It worked better with our defenders more in their prime, and with pacy wing backs, like Walker, who we did not realise exactly how much we would miss, and a bond between each “bank.”

It’s quite evident to me, Poch is more of a man-manager that a master tactician. It seems no surprise that we have excellent spells over Christmas where games come thick and fast, with less time to plan, and also why we seem to often play better in second halves, as there is more of a quick fix approach rather than poor initial planning. Then throw in strange formations, Son at right wing back, and so on....

It’s almost as if we are always playing a complicated game of chess, whilst our opponents are playing draughts. The lesser teams let us do our thing, and then breeze past and strike. The elite teams just show up the sheer gulf in tactics.

Teams have learnt how to deal with us. Like last season with the CL final, we could easily paper over the cracks and beat Arsenal next weekend. But when Palace visit for the next game, you can bet any money they will “do a Newcastle” on us! And this is what we saw last season.....we rode our luck against Brighton, but lost to Southampton....all playing this same stuff. Run forward and make progress, cut back, play square, run forward, make progress, cut back. Rinse, repeat. No crosses, limited shooting, eye of the needle stuff. And painfully boring to watch.

His approach in interviews I find almost insulting. Of course we don’t need the life story, but it would be a nice chance for our manager to stay “in touch” with us fans. This just pushes how much further I feel as a fan, from the corporate giant football has become.

Maybe it will be Mourinho next. It will still be boring. Maybe we will win stuff. He knows how to win. Personally, this isn’t the answer in my opinion, and it pains me to say, I sadly believe Poch has taken us where he can.

We have an amazing squad, we really do. So we are pretty much there. We just need the right person to assemble the expensive parts into one grand masterpiece!

That was longer than expected my post! But it was my first post....maybe it was just all brewing inside me, and I feel much better for sharing ?

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

you would struggle to press when there is 10 men behind the ball. I agree with movement, and feel when we are wide we don't try and get to the byeline and get crosses in

I guess miracles do happen, I agree with one of your posts.

Way too much made on here of the lack of pressing but pressing doesn’t work against a bank of 9 defenders. For that you need either to get round the back of the defenders or very cute interplay on the edge of the box. We had one piece of the latter by GLC which should have given us a penalty. We didn’t see any of the former and the lack of pace and penetration by our full backs is an issue that needs addressing.

 

[Coco-1101]

that's your comeback?. FML.

Oooh you won the battle.

I am not childish to act like that. The truth is we played just ONCE in CL ever. Now we are regular without much support in TW. The profile of the club raised all over the world hence better sponsorship deals. 62000 seats doesn't make it big club but filled day in day out makes it. I doubt it if we had a EL tie and it will be 70 % filled. All that thanks to pochetino

 

[Phomesy]

Oh the players were playing for him alright. Its the system they're playing is the big issue. I dont buy the fans not supporting the team properly. The players would have still played the same. Its pointless having all the possession if were not going to do anything with it. Sideways pass, trap the ball, touch the ball , pass sideways, repeat. Hopeful of a cross into the area finding a head. Its fucking stagnant and there's no sign of it changing. I hope it does don't get me wrong but it looks properly bleak.

Yeah I'd agree with that. But my impression is that we can't get opportunities to Kane like we did when this system - which has served us well for years - worked a treat. Is it Kane? Is it Moura? Is it never have Dele/Son/Eriksen behind Kane? I don't know. But the players certainly kept to his gameplan.

 

[Bobbins]

And yet we have quotes from Ndombele explicitly stating Poch's importance to him signing up, and similar from the other three who came in. I doubt it was down to Poch giving them all a lendsie from his Leonard Cohen collection. Honestly, out of those currently out of the team for reasons other than injury or fitness, which ones do you think should be playing? Re: Eriksen - he is usually the fan's whipping boy whenever a result fails to meet expectations. Now he should apparently be the first name on the teamsheet and Poch hasn't got a clue. Seriously, after the miracle he and the players pulled last season with CL qualification and the final itself, there is considerably more credit in the bank than the next few games. Finally, the allusion to unrest and arguments from some on here for Mourinho as the man to sort things out. Wow.

Well it's hardly likely Poch is going to call N'Dombele up and say "Yeah come on mate come to Spurs, it's great - I mean to be honest my heart's not really in it any more so I'm touch and go myself - but don't worry about that, they'll pay you £100k a week here!"

Re: Eriksen - he might be some fans whipping boy, but anyone who thinks he needs dropping when you look at the options to replace him and how important he is to our overall play is clueless and their opinion doesn't count. So quite obviously I think him and Jan should be playing - given they're two of our best players and are available in positions where we're suffering.

Yes obviously Poch has lots of credit - my questions were about whether he was still really up for it anymore and if he is, then he has a massive job on his hands to end this turgid football, clear out this massively negative atmosphere, and start talking up the club, the players, and our ambitions once again.

Assume you're replying to others when you mention Jose. The man's football cancer and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club.

 

[Blackrat1299]

Now is the time we should get to see what mental strength Poch has. Its all very well being cocky and arrogant when the team is playing well, how he turns this round will be the yardstick that I will measure him by.

 

[Primativ]

Clearly I was referring to the %80 possession which is nothing else shows we were adhering to the Poch gameplan of playing in our half and trying to score through overwhelming territorial dominance. This gameplan succeeded in that territorial dominance but failed in just about every other objective. I'm not saying that everything's great just pointing out that the players are playing Poch's game - whether its working or not.

Against Villa we should have had 3 goals by half-time. It can't be included in any doom-mongering. Or at least it shouldn't.

Perhaps the City game depressed us? Possible easily.

That may be the problem then? slow side to side possession football just isn't working.

 

[fortworthspur]

What on earth does that show me? There were loads of poor performances in the first half of the season, I know because everyone was discussing it on here, we were all saying that we were getting away with it results wise and we weren't playing very well.

it shows you that the "piss poor performances nearly every single week" won 20 of 26 matches before February. If thats struggling I'll take it.