The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - The 19 edition 26th May 2014

[VegasII]

Didn't Ramos manage Real Madrid after us......

I think he went in as a caretaker type of thing.

Or maybe he was just a caretaker.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

I think he went in as a caretaker type of thing.

Or maybe he was just a caretaker.

Got the job until the end of that season then they didn't offer him a full contract.

As for the £700 bet, sorry, but I call bull shit.

 

[Indisguise]

19 is actually the age of Levy's ideal manager. Very malleable.

 

[SpurSince57]

Yeah, it's interesting because there have been hints that all is not harmonious in the Spurs boardroom and some are not in agreement with Levy's pick. I'm pretty sure Levy will win the day though but it does hint at some sort of shifting of attitude at the club in that there are those at the top who might be seeing what the rest of us are seeing when it comes to Levy and picking managers. Maybe he's losing some trust in the upper echelons.

We've been here before, though; it was widely believed that there were divisions in the boardroom during Jol's tenure, with Kemsley leading the faction that wanted BMJ out and Harry (and then Ramos) in. Does anyone seriously believe that Fatso left the board because he 'wanted to focus on his property interests' or because the Dear Leader was fucked off that he'd made the club look stupid when he was caught with his pants down at the Rey Alfonso? `(By the way, if you want a laugh Google 'Paul Kemsley'.)

Really, it's a bit rich for fans to attack Levy's picks when all of his first choices, with the exception of AVB, have been highly popular. No-one objected to Hoddle, nor to Fruitini, as I recall. The small minority on SC that expressed reservations about Ramos got shouted down as Running Dog Jolistas. AVB was more contentious, but I think it's fair to say a majority was at least very willing to give him a chance, and was pretty pleased at the end of 2012-13. BMJ was probably dead right when he said Levy was the best businessman in the world but knew fuck all about football, but we can't really applaud his choices when they're made and then attack him when things go tits-up. Hoddle should have gone in May 2003, not August, Fruitini cracked up and walked, Ramos absolutely had to go and AVB might still be in a job if he'd made things up with Adebayor. A lot of fans wanted BMJ out, Harry got shit on here from day one, ditto Sherwood, even more so.

 

[Scott Spur]

Just a point on the perception that Daniel Levy loves sacking his managers. Here's the list,

Graham - fans
Hoddle - results
Santini - sacked himself
Jol - results
Ramos - results/bottom of league
Redknapp - talked his way out
AVB - stubborn as hell
Sherwood - lost the dressing room

While I can understand that 9 managers in 13 years is not good, IMO most of those sackings were totally justified at the time.....whether we regret them now or not.

I hope the new man gets the time to shape and hone a team, but if that means losing the dressing room, alienating the squad, trying to bore us to death on the pitch and then turning on the fans then no, I back Levy 100% in sacking the muppet.

 

[CornerPinDreamer]

Sacking them isnt the issue, ability of dl to select is under real scrutiny this time

 

[harry's chin]

Can you even put down 700 as a bet on manager markets? Thought there were limits for those type of things

 

[Good Doctor M]

Surely the question should be, why does the system of governence within the club make it seemingly impossible for any manager to last more than a few seasons?

 

[Keith Morris]

We've been here before, though; it was widely believed that there were divisions in the boardroom during Jol's tenure, with Kemsley leading the faction that wanted BMJ out and Harry (and then Ramos) in. Does anyone seriously believe that Fatso left the board because he 'wanted to focus on his property interests' or because the Dear Leader was fucked off that he'd made the club look stupid when he was caught with his pants down at the Rey Alfonso? `(By the way, if you want a laugh Google 'Paul Kemsley'.)

Really, it's a bit rich for fans to attack Levy's picks when all of his first choices, with the exception of AVB, have been highly popular. No-one objected to Hoddle, nor to Fruitini, as I recall. The small minority on SC that expressed reservations about Ramos got shouted down as Running Dog Jolistas. AVB was more contentious, but I think it's fair to say a majority was at least very willing to give him a chance, and was pretty pleased at the end of 2012-13. BMJ was probably dead right when he said Levy was the best businessman in the world but knew fuck all about football, but we can't really applaud his choices when they're made and then attack him when things go tits-up. Hoddle should have gone in May 2003, not August, Fruitini cracked up and walked, Ramos absolutely had to go and AVB might still be in a job if he'd made things up with Adebayor. A lot of fans wanted BMJ out, Harry got shit on here from day one, ditto Sherwood, even more so.

Very good post, I'm not sure levy should be trying to please the fans when choosing which manager to appoint or when to sack them, he needs an impartial mind on the matter...instead he's had a partial brain

 

[Mr Pink]

Surely the question should be, why does the system of governence within the club make it seemingly impossible for any manager to last more than a few seasons?

Too many cooks spoil the broth, as the old saying goes, I'd imagine.

Does appear that any manager here will have his hands full in terms of the politics behind the scenes.

That being said, we havn't exactly done badly in recent times.

 

[mark87]

Can you even put down 700 as a bet on manager markets? Thought there were limits for those type of things

To be fair, I thought this as well.

 

[Hitch]

Just a point on the perception that Daniel Levy loves sacking his managers. Here's the list,

Graham - fans
Hoddle - results
Santini - sacked himself
Jol - results
Ramos - results/bottom of league
Redknapp - talked his way out
AVB - stubborn as hell
Sherwood - lost the dressing room

While I can understand that 9 managers in 13 years is not good, IMO most of those sackings were totally justified at the time.....whether we regret them now or not.

I hope the new man gets the time to shape and hone a team, but if that means losing the dressing room, alienating the squad, trying to bore us to death on the pitch and then turning on the fans then no, I back Levy 100% in sacking the muppet.

The only one of those that felt premature to me was AVB. I was coming round to the idea that he might not be the man for us long term but it was plain daft not to wait until the end of the season. Should only be sacking managers mid-season if 1) we're in danger of relegation or 2) there's someone clearly better available. Neither was the case at that time.

Definitely agreed on the whole though.

 

[Barry Mead]

Just a point on the perception that Daniel Levy loves sacking his managers. Here's the list,

Graham - fans
Hoddle - results
Santini - sacked himself
Jol - results
Ramos - results/bottom of league
Redknapp - talked his way out
AVB - stubborn as hell
Sherwood - lost the dressing room

While I can understand that 9 managers in 13 years is not good, IMO most of those sackings were totally justified at the time.....whether we regret them now or not.

I hope the new man gets the time to shape and hone a team, but if that means losing the dressing room, alienating the squad, trying to bore us to death on the pitch and then turning on the fans then no, I back Levy 100% in sacking the muppet.

There's a catch 22 here, pick the right person for the job then you shouldn't need to sack them
Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the simplicity of some of those reasons above it's fair enough that some of those managers needed to go, but whilst you can praise Levy in some cases for sacking them then equally you have to criticise him for hiring them in the first place

Then of course you have to consider if Levy actually allowed some of them enough support and freedom to do the job well, or if some of them failed because he didn't

Just look at the Jol situation, Levy didn't want him, it was only because Santini left and Frank pushed for him. He brought good results but instead of supporting him he brought in Comolli and then there were always conflicts and undermining.

You suggest results were the reason Jol got sacked yet two games into a season following a second top five finish and with a massive early season injury list Levy and co were splashed across the papers dining out with Ramos. You undermine someone and it can become something of a self fulfilling prophecy.

Harry managed two top 4 and a top 5 finish and his only crime was being considered and thinking about the England managers job. Why sack him? especially only to replace him with a manager with minimal experience who had already failed in the PL

At the end of the day no new manager will get any time with Levy unless he lucks on one that hits the ground running and gets early success. Then again there's still no guarantees, when Harry managed to get us our first CL qualification where was the backing from Levy to strengthen the squad

Sadly I think whilst Levy stays in charge we'll continue to limp along hoping to hang on to the coat tails of the top teams whilst constantly changing managers in a vain hope that one might give that extra impetus to push us into the CL places

 

[Sum Monsterism]

Got the job until the end of that season then they didn't offer him a full contract.

As for the £700 bet, sorry, but I call bull shit.

So what, that means he's lying? FFS he's gonna get more grief going so big for a relatively low return than plaudits for taking a big-ass risk, so why would he fib?


let the guy have his day, and hopefully his payout. The 'no being snidey to itk' should extend to fellow SC members too.


(Except @yankspurs - who actually feeds on negative energy; it makes him stronger.)

 

[AX-Spur]

Can you even put down 700 as a bet on manager markets? Thought there were limits for those type of things

I tried it with Bet365, and my "max bet" with Poch would be €1800, so yes.

I did not place it though... I think...

 

[brasil_spur]

All the managers, Levy has sacked have all gone & managed more shittier clubs and all their careers have gone down the drain.
Anyone who is willing to take up the job at Spurs have to put their career on line.

ITK suggests its Poch or Boer ?.

Who is the sacrificial lamb ?

The other side to that is that all the managers Levy has sacked have clearly not been good enough for us... i'd be far more annoyed if we sacked a manager and he went on to win the Champions League (like Chelsea!).

 

[Sum Monsterism]

The other side to that is that all the managers Levy has sacked have clearly not been good enough for us... i'd be far more annoyed if we sacked a manager and he went on to win the Champions League (like Chelsea!).

Redknapp was good enough for me. :-(

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Surely the question should be, why does the system of governence within the club make it seemingly impossible for any manager to last more than a few seasons?

I think the cart's before the horse a bit here.

Managers have been sacked largely because they have reached a point where it looks probable that they will not be able to improve on the results they are delivering, or in other ways are unable to fulfil the responsibilities of the job. This is, of course, in the opinion of the board, on which DL has the largest say. But he has never been the only voice in these decisions.

If Spurs had a manager who could deliver good results and progress, and work reliably within the financial parameters that the club have to set, I do not believe there is anything in the structure or the identity of the board that would encourage them to want to change the manager for the sake of it.

 

[brasil_spur]

There's a catch 22 here, pick the right person for the job then you shouldn't need to sack them

That's no easy task though is it, even Man Utd - which should be the dream job for any manager in the world, managed to get it wrong with Moyes.

Jol - was the right managerial appointment at that time and was a massive part of Spurs getting back in the running in the top 6.

Redknapp - was the best managerial appointment we have made for a long while, got us out of the shit and then went on to turn us into a team breaking into the top 4.

At worst i would say since Jol was hired almost 10 years ago we've had two excellent choices (Jol and Redknapp) and two that didn't work out (Ramos and AVB). I'm not counting Sherwood in this.

Even then one of those two managers that didn't work out won us our only piece of silverware this century.

 

[brasil_spur]

Redknapp was good enough for me. :-(

I don't think he was though, not good enough to push us on and keep us competitive. I loved him whilst he was our manager, but that last 6 months of his tenure he wasn't really with us, mentally.

Plus you look at some of the players we'd signed and we were going to run into big trouble at some point with his ageing squad.

I think we got Harry at the peak of his career and let him go at the right time.