The defence

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Scares the crap out of me.

This is not because of the individuals that we have as I'm pretty sure we have as solid a group of defenders as we've had in a really long time (loving the early impressions from Toby, Wimmer and Trippier).

What scares me is the formation/organization (fucking American auto correct) of the back line. Yesterday we started with Toby and Jan in central defence and I was looking forward to seeing the partnership between the two since they've obviously played quite a lot of football together. However we saw almost immediately that this:

Vorm

Walker Alderweireld Vertonghen Davies

Dier Bentaleb

Dembele Eriksen Chadli

Kane
​

Turned into this:

Vorm

Alderweireld-----------------------------------------------------------Vertonghen
Dier

Bentaleb

------------------------------DeErChmbikadelselilen--------------- Davies

Kane

Walker--------------------------------------------------------------
​

The centre backs split so far they were almost positioned as fullbacks, Dier (the experiment which hopefully isn't ever repeated) sort of dropped in to cover the central gap but sort of held his midfield position and was basically in no mans land from a defensive positioning point of view. Vertonghen looked clearly shaky not having his partner closer and it nearly exposed us twice in the opening minute as his mistakes had no cover. A bit more powerful team would have buried us really early in that game.

I get that we want to have our full backs bombing on and giving us width to since we lack any sort of width or penetration from our 3 behind the striker but the amount of split that happens from out center back partnership to cover the gap left behind was pretty alarming. It was almost as though they were forcing it to allow Dier to drop back in and make a 3 man defence but it just left us all at sea. We did it last season but at times last night it was just taking it beyond the extreme.

Dier's role also was a complete muddle. He tried to help cover centrally but was behind the play when the opposition attacked and then didn't really offer anything going the other way. He's not able to transition play from deep and didn't really look like he was comfortable with the defensive side of the game from that role either.

Fazio and Wimmer played tighter together and it looked more natural also in part because we played with midfielders in front of them who looked like midfielders and we weren't trying to force a defensive positioning that looked awkward.

I hope it was simply an experiment but I worry about us getting exposed by long balls through the middle again.

​

 

[Bobishism]

I think that's fair. I think it's partially due to it still being early in the season and our first 11 still being unsettled.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I think that's fair. I think it's partially due to it still being early in the season and our first 11 still being unsettled.

For sure and I know pre-season is a time for trial and error. We will get better, I just hope we tighten the holes a bit.

 

[double0]

Sorry to say this but any CB partnership involving Vertonghen we're gonna have problems.
I've watched Vertonghen closely since his been at Spurs imo his not comfortable defending which is completely odd for a CB.
Fazio has problems with pace but is a far better defender. I'm hoping Wimmer turns out to be a solid LCB to dislodge Vertonghen.

 

[npearl4spurs]

Vertonghen needs a partner that knows his weaknesses and limitations. It kinda sucks to say that, but now that he has that in Alderweireld, I'm guessing we will see more good things consistently from him.

 

[youngyids]

Tbh, I think we went for a 5-3-2 with wing backs there, and Walker didn't know when to stop with nobody in front of him telling to do so.

 

[Barry Mead]

I always thought at Ajax Alderweireld was by far the weaker CB of the two, so despite playing a role in Soton's impressive goals conceded numbers last season I still can't see him being a huge improvement defensively, yes better than the awful Vlad and the post injury Eunice and with far better delivery than the awful distribution that Fazio provides, but I still think Dier for all his inexperience is a better option at RCB. Trippier hopefully will prove a lot better than Walker and simply proving better shouldn't be hard, so RB surely has to be better. That said I though Davies would develop and make the LB spot his own last season and yet he disappointed and was kept out by the defensively poor Rose, so I hope that Trippier manages to get a run and get settled and that Davies does likewise and can consolidate a place at LB. Rose puts a lot of energy into his play but his defensive game was still horrendous last season and we need to have two defensively strong full backs if we are only going to have two central mids. Midfield wise I pray we can add both McCarthy and Kramer even then I'm still not a fan of a two man central mid, but we need to have better than Mason and Bentaleb as regular starters
Personally I think Poch is far too attack focussed though and we'll continue to give goals away like last season lets just hope if that's the case we can score a lot more

 

[npearl4spurs]

I always thought at Ajax Alderweireld was by far the weaker CB of the two, so despite playing a role in Soton's impressive goals conceded numbers last season I still can't see him being a huge improvement defensively, yes better than the awful Vlad and the post injury Eunice and with far better delivery than the awful distribution that Fazio provides, but I still think Dier for all his inexperience is a better option at RCB. Trippier hopefully will prove a lot better than Walker and simply proving better shouldn't be hard, so RB surely has to be better. That said I though Davies would develop and make the LB spot his own last season and yet he disappointed and was kept out by the defensively poor Rose, so I hope that Trippier manages to get a run and get settled and that Davies does likewise and can consolidate a place at LB. Rose puts a lot of energy into his play but his defensive game was still horrendous last season and we need to have two defensively strong full backs if we are only going to have two central mids. Midfield wise I pray we can add both McCarthy and Kramer even then I'm still not a fan of a two man central mid, but we need to have better than Mason and Bentaleb as regular starters
Personally I think Poch is far too attack focussed though and we'll continue to give goals away like last season lets just hope if that's the case we can score a lot more

I disagree that Rose's defensive game was 'horrendous' last year. He was our best defender last year and not just for his additions in attack.

 

[PT]

I always thought at Ajax Alderweireld was by far the weaker CB of the two, so despite playing a role in Soton's impressive goals conceded numbers last season I still can't see him being a huge improvement defensively, yes better than the awful Vlad and the post injury Eunice and with far better delivery than the awful distribution that Fazio provides, but I still think Dier for all his inexperience is a better option at RCB. Trippier hopefully will prove a lot better than Walker and simply proving better shouldn't be hard, so RB surely has to be better. That said I though Davies would develop and make the LB spot his own last season and yet he disappointed and was kept out by the defensively poor Rose, so I hope that Trippier manages to get a run and get settled and that Davies does likewise and can consolidate a place at LB. Rose puts a lot of energy into his play but his defensive game was still horrendous last season and we need to have two defensively strong full backs if we are only going to have two central mids. Midfield wise I pray we can add both McCarthy and Kramer even then I'm still not a fan of a two man central mid, but we need to have better than Mason and Bentaleb as regular starters
Personally I think Poch is far too attack focussed though and we'll continue to give goals away like last season lets just hope if that's the case we can score a lot more

1. Bentaleb is far better than your opinion in your piece gives credit for.
2 Rose improved beyond most fans' expectations last season and credit was given to Davies for pushing him by being on his shoulder in training.
3. Walker may also respond in similar fashion and the one major difference is that he is now fully fit.

 

[danielneeds]

If we're going to ask our fullbacks to bomb on that's why we need a proper defensive midfielder to drop back in with the split centrebacks.

I just don't understand Poch's double pivot if he's pushing the fullbacks so far forward. Barca or any team that plays with fullback wingers, has that player who drops in and sees the danger.

 

[Barry Mead]

1. Bentaleb is far better than your opinion in your piece gives credit for.
2 Rose improved beyond most fans' expectations last season and credit was given to Davies for pushing him by being on his shoulder in training.
3. Walker may also respond in similar fashion and the one major difference is that he is now fully fit.

Rose put a lot of effort in last season but I still thought defensively he was poor, maybe Davies being around pushed him to greater effort so that was a positive but I was disappointed in Davies last season even though I knew he was still very much a raw and developing player. I think he may have looked better given a run to adjust but he didn't really help himself with a few pretty below par performances when he did get games
Walker always tries and has great physical qualities of pace and stamina, sadly he lacks a footballing brain, has zero defensive qualities and is at best inconsistent with his delivery and decision making going forward. His being around may help Trippier really push to make the RB position his own so that's a plus, but sadly for me Walkers lack of brain and skills make any pace and stamina he provides pretty irrelevant
As for Bentaleb, I think he's another player with a great work ethic but neither great defensive qualities or creative ones. I think he's young enough to develop but to develop I think he'd have far better chance in a three, with defensively weak am's and full backs I think both he and Mason have to spend too much time chasing around trying to put out fires, leaving them little opportunity to have a bit of time to read play and develop their skills

 

[double0]

The double pivot can work only with competent CB. Watch Spurs against the MLS all stars and within the first 5 minutes our so called (superman) Jan Vertonghen is up to his old tricks not defending to the required standards.

Still worrying is those cb....we haven't improved on the weak link.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Rose put a lot of effort in last season but I still thought defensively he was poor, maybe Davies being around pushed him to greater effort so that was a positive but I was disappointed in Davies last season even though I knew he was still very much a raw and developing player. I think he may have looked better given a run to adjust but he didn't really help himself with a few pretty below par performances when he did get games
Walker always tries and has great physical qualities of pace and stamina, sadly he lacks a footballing brain, has zero defensive qualities and is at best inconsistent with his delivery and decision making going forward. His being around may help Trippier really push to make the RB position his own so that's a plus, but sadly for me Walkers lack of brain and skills make any pace and stamina he provides pretty irrelevant
As for Bentaleb, I think he's another player with a great work ethic but neither great defensive qualities or creative ones. I think he's young enough to develop but to develop I think he'd have far better chance in a three, with defensively weak am's and full backs I think both he and Mason have to spend too much time chasing around trying to put out fires, leaving them little opportunity to have a bit of time to read play and develop their skills

Disagree about Bentaleb somewhat, but I think the rest is pretty spot on.

 

[Spurger King]

I don't really know a great deal about Trippier. Is he more defensive-minded? I know he gets forward to put in crosses.

Just wondering if the plan is to have two attacking full-backs (Rose and Walker), and two defensive full-backs (Trippier and Davies). That would give us more balance and options depending on who is playing in front of them.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I don't really know a great deal about Trippier. Is he more defensive-minded? I know he gets forward to put in crosses.

Just wondering if the plan is to have two attacking full-backs (Rose and Walker), and two defensive full-backs (Trippier and Davies). That would give us more balance and options depending on who is playing in front of them.

I actually think Davies is much better going forward than defending. Trippier seems to be a more complete up-and-down right-back, but still probably better attacking-wise, and the same as Rose in that respect.

Walker doesn't really excel in either department at the moment, unfortunately. He's good going forward and getting into good positions, but his service on the right flank is quite bad.

All my opinion, of course

 

[Francis Gibbs]

the worrying thing is they are all individually pretty decent players of the type not to be short of admirers ... but collectively a shambles on way too many occasions.
Therefore it's not a huge leap to suggest MP is failing to organise and coach them as a unit correctly including sticking a decent DM shield in front of them and getting his wide players to defend better.

 

[Barry Mead]

the worrying thing is they are all individually pretty decent players of the type not to be short of admirers ... but collectively a shambles on way too many occasions.
Therefore it's not a huge leap to suggest MP is failing to organise and coach them as a unit correctly including sticking a decent DM shield in front of them and getting his wide players to defend better.

I think to be fair to Poch he started with none of Eriksen, Lamela and Nacer any clue about defending, they came from leagues where they were able to focus on their attacking game and rarely had need to support defences in the same way advanced players need to in the PL They were all pretty much a negative when they did drop back to try and help out particularly Lamela.
I thought as the season wore on both Lamela and Eriksen were improving on awareness of situations and what was needed when they dropped back, whether to hold up the player, tackle, shepherd etc. Don't get me wrong they still have a long way to go but I think Poch or the coaching staff must have put some work in. Chadli was more disappointing as he still looked pretty unaware of developing situations and his main contributions where generally because he happened to be where he needed rather than he got back to help a situation
Of course Lennon has far more awareness and experience and would have been a better option but rumour is he's blotted his copy book pretty badly
I think with two cm's it's critical that the advanced players both press in the opposition half and understand when to drop back and support and how given the relevant threat. I'm interested to see if Poch tries to play Alli in the attacking three but with a remit to drop back and make a third when the opposition break
I guess it won't be long now till we start finding out what players will play and how they'll fit. I have to say that despite being pretty disappointed with the quality and the desire in a number of games last season I'm really looking forward to this coming season now

 

[THOWIG]

I personally think the transfer strategy was improve the defence regardless of sales. DONE

Then sell all of the deadwood piling up. ALMOST DONE

Last month, go out and sign 3 new players. IN PROGRESS

 

[Syn_13]

I'm hoping Dier in the holding mid position is just a place holder at the moment. We really need someone there.

 

[lillywhites61]

Sorry to say this but any CB partnership involving Vertonghen we're gonna have problems.
I've watched Vertonghen closely since his been at Spurs imo his not comfortable defending which is completely odd for a CB.
Fazio has problems with pace but is a far better defender. I'm hoping Wimmer turns out to be a solid LCB to dislodge Vertonghen.

Couldn't agree more with this, to be honest I would rather see Dier at the back with Jan playing that DM role. I certainly don't think he is a natural CB and looks shakey a lot of the time