The nature of football passion

[Achap]

Sorry, but I am incredibly bored waiting for next Sunday to roll round, and have been passing the time wondering about passion with regards to football.


It started with commentators saying that managers who didn't dance like Dervishes on the touchline lacked passion. Eriksson got that criticism when he was manager of England. Andy Gray constantly tries to claim that players should not be penalised when they pull their shirts off after scoring, because they are lost in 'passion' and don't know what they are doing. Many fans feel obliged to clench their fists, pull their face into an ugly grimace, and roar something, in order to appear passionate.


So, it seems that passion must be externalised for it to be considered real. When did that start? Bill Nicholson or Martin Chivers never pulled off their shirts when they scored - and nor did Andy Gray for that matter. Were they not passionate about the game?


Fans have always made loads of noise - in the distant past, mainly with whirling rattles - but have only in recent years felt compelled to contort their faces into maniacal expressions.


So, is it passion or fashion? As far as I can remember, Ravanelli started the shirt thing by pulling his shirt front over his face. Just about everyone copied that - right down to kids in the park - and it eventually turned into ripping the shirt right off, and waving it round in the grip of 'passion'.


During the 1970 World Cup, Rivellino of Brazil extended his forearms and clenched his fists after scoring. Prior to that the scorer normally smiled and shook hands with a couple of team-mates. The English commentators expressed wonderment at this new expression of 'passion', and every 12 year-old had to follow suit. Forty years later it has become virtually obligatory for any fan near a TV camera - and is now usually accompanied by a raucous shout of "C'mon!!!"


So do people do these things because they are passionate inside, or are they more concerned with other people thinking they are? As a non-demonstrative person who rarely externalises emotion, I am really curious to know!

 

[Dougal]

I just get lost in it so whatever happens is just what comes naturally. When Modric hit the post then Lennon equalised in the 4-4 at the Emirates, my reaction was caught on camera (I have mentioned that, haven't I?), and it was no different to being there, sitting in the pub or sitting at home on the couch, the moment takes you over. If I had thought about it I'd have probably done it differently

 

[IamCelestial]

I just get lost in it so whatever happens is just what comes naturally. When Modric hit the post then Lennon equalised in the 4-4 at the Emirates, my reaction was caught on camera (I have mentioned that, haven't I?), and it was no different to being there, sitting in the pub or sitting at home on the couch, the moment takes you over. If I had thought about it I'd have probably done it differently

go on, give us a link to an youtube video or a photo, I know you want to :wink:

 

[Dougal]

go on, give us a link to an youtube video or a photo, I know you want to :wink:

I don't have one :-(

Only mentioned it because...

a) I've never seen my own reaction to a goal, was a bit weird
b) I always mention it

 

[Achap]

Yeah, that was a pretty extreme moment!!! Even Phil Thompson virtually had a heart attack on screen! And I can totally understand because it was amazing and fantastic, and your response like doubtless all of ours was incredulous and spontaneous. It's the formulaic stuff I can't get to grips with.


Too bad there's no record of your reaction to the event! mg: :grin:

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I just think money has changed the game completely, very few teams/fans experience real success in winning actual trophies now. So little achievements seem to be celebrated a lot more, eg scoring a goal, getting 3 points, finishing 4th!

You said yourself your bored waiting for Sunday to come, let's face it, if we finish 4th, it's probably the closest a lot of our fans will come to actually seeing us win the league.

When we missed out on 4th that year I was gutted for weeks thinking how close we had come, and that is just for 4th. I would have probably showed as much passion as a Chelsea /Man Utd fan does when they win the league.

Real success is almost impossible to achieve for normal clubs like us now, that's why I think every little goal, victory is celebrated in such a way.

Even the commentary is different now, look at how they was back in the 60s and 70s when a goal was scored, their tones of voice hardly even changed, they were just like "and it's a goal and their off back to the centre circle". Compare that to the latin commentators of today or Andy Gray and Martin Tyler creaming their pants as Gerrard saved Lpool from the CL exit a few years back.

 

[Dougal]

Maybe there's too many E numbers in the food? People react to the smallest things in life now in a manner that was once saved for the Beatles flying in to the nearest airport.

 

[Son_Of]

Achap i think you may have things back to font. rather than the recent displays being artificial or staged, perhaps the restrain showed in the past was people reining in their natural reaction because it was unbecoming to act like that in public. now emotion does not have the same stigma in society.

just a thought

 

[Spurger King]

Achap i think you may have things back to font. rather than the recent displays being artificial or staged, perhaps the restrain showed in the past was people reining in their natural reaction because it was unbecoming to act like that in public. now emotion does not have the same stigma in society.

just a thought

This is very much the case. We're all restrained by prevailing social attitudes (to varying degrees), and these attitudes change over time. The reactions of players, fans etc.. during the 60s was a shared response, in accordance with what was accepted and expected.

We're still restrained by these attitudes, just in a different way. Players are generall expected to celebrate with enthusiasm. If Defoe scored a last minute winner over Arsenal at the lane and just quietly picked the ball up, jogged back to the centre circle, and showed no sign of being happy (or Henry-esque restrained cockyness), we'd probably think something was up with him. Just as if Blanchflower scored a goal and proceeded to twirl his shirt round his head whilst diving into the stands, that might have been received with surprise as well.

Be interesting to see what player/fan behaviour evolves into next..

 

[Achap]

Achap i think you may have things back to font. rather than the recent displays being artificial or staged, perhaps the restrain showed in the past was people reining in their natural reaction because it was unbecoming to act like that in public. now emotion does not have the same stigma in society.

just a thought

And a very good one.

Perhaps that's it. I should maybe be less judgemental. Until Lennon whips off his shirt after scoring, gets his fifth yellow, and misses the next game against Arsenal. Eek

Then I shall once more retire into my grumpy old man shell, muttering darkly.

 

[StartingPrice]

Firstly, it is different for everyone - and then there are the plastics:grin:

I believe you are alluding to a cultural phenomenon. As part of the movement that included opposition to colonial rule and the 'hippie' movement of the 1960s, the reserved 'stiff upper lip' ethos, which frowned upon overt displays of emotion, was much derided. Being emotional was again seen as acceptable - indeed, to not show emotion was to appear as old fashioned, and a bit of a fuddy-duddy. It is probably from this that the 'urge' to celebrate psychotically, 'just to fit in' comes from.

I am quite a bit more reserved than I used to be - and when SSN (for example) shows these amateur commentators from rival clubs going berserk at every goal, and imagining that commentating is shouting loud every time there may be a throw-in, and it is treated as hilarious, I just find it embarrassing. I also think most goals are massively over celebrated. So, I don't just follow any sheepish trend. To me then, this is 'passion' - normally a Spurs goal is pretty quiet 'yes' and a barely visible clenched fist. For Lennon's equaliser in the 4-4 at the Scummerates in injury time, however, I accidentally oops punched the wall with the side of my hand, and hurt myself enough for it to be painful two weeks later. I don't have az fake - permanent passion - just to look passionate. Just if it is really tense, really important really contentious, I can be quick badly stirred. And singing and a bit of booing is just a normal part of fan behaviour and nothing to do with 'fake passion'.

Just my observation/opinion.

 

[C0YS]

when we score a goal, I go a little crazy...I cant really help it. I cay come on a lot as well. and point at where the players should move/pass the ball.

Its just a reaction. Some people dont react that way, but I wouldnt describe them less passionate...

 

[Son_Of]

And a very good one.

Perhaps that's it. I should maybe be less judgemental. Until Lennon whips off his shirt after scoring, gets his fifth yellow, and misses the next game against Arsenal. Eek

Then I shall once more retire into my grumpy old man shell, muttering darkly.

cheers! of course some people will be putting on the overt celebration, but similarly the reserve of the past will have sometimes been just for appearances.
i do feel players should be able to avoid stripping off (unless that silly rule changes), it hardly takes superhuman self control to keep your shirt on!

but even in cricket Freddy and Dada have both taken their shirts off to celebrate victories!

 

[Adam456]

I just get lost in it so whatever happens is just what comes naturally. When Modric hit the post then Lennon equalised in the 4-4 at the Emirates, my reaction was caught on camera (I have mentioned that, haven't I?), and it was no different to being there, sitting in the pub or sitting at home on the couch, the moment takes you over. If I had thought about it I'd have probably done it differently

Yep me too. Well known for it amongst my friends. Was in the Railway at Liverpool Street for that one and everybody went spastic (apart from the half dozen glum gooners in the corner), beer everywhere. Still didn't quite pull the same faces as me no doubt and or run leaping up to the big screen.

The more the build-up, the longer we've been a goal down, the more you hate the opposition all play their part and I don't think the heat of the moment would have been much more than that game if it was a cup final tbh

Only sensible thing I ever to is, if I'm in a pub, try to find a spot with a bit of clearance and put my pint down when we're on the attack

 

[Spurger King]

when we score a goal, I go a little crazy...I cant really help it. I cay come on a lot as well. and point at where the players should move/pass the ball.

Its just a reaction. Some people dont react that way, but I wouldnt describe them less passionate...

I remember years ago when I was a kid watching an F.A cup game on tv and one of our players scored...causing me to run around the house cheering and jumping about like a maniac, in front of a large number of relatives and friends of the family. When I sat down again I found out it had been disallowed.

 

[Adam]

I dont know if this has anything to do with it, but everything about modern football just looks so...nice. You have perfect pitches, lovely kits with names and numbers on the back and packed stadiums, many of which have been recently built and look likes pieces of architecture.

For me, when a goal is scored now, i just think it looks a lot nicer than all the footage ive seen from the past where the pitches were just bogs with lines on-im only 22 so have been brought up in the modern football age, but i definitely think there is something visual about football today that brings out my passion for the game-i just love seeing good goals scored!