The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Bus-Conductor]

Winks made 33 appearances last ( which was cut short by injury ) not bad for a youth player in a team that came second.

An appearance can be 5 minutes. He made 3/4 starts in the league all season.

 

[tiger666]

An appearance can be 5 minutes. He made 3/4 starts in the league all season.

He played 1300 minutes. That's not bad going.

 

[Hengy1]

An appearance can be 5 minutes. He made 3/4 starts in the league all season.

His development has been absolutely fine and it’s very strange you would try and use him as a example when he’s clearly the one poch got right in a sea of current failures,

 

[Bus-Conductor]

He played 1300 minutes. That's not bad going.

He played 525 in the league.

 

[tiger666]

He played 525 in the league.

So? He played 200 in the Champions League. I guess they don't count?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

His development has been absolutely fine and it’s very strange you would try and use him as a example when he’s clearly the one poch got right in a sea of current failures,

He maybe got it righter than the others - which you are ignoring - I agree, but look at the problems we've had in midfield this season, I think if he'd been less risk averse with Winks last season, we'd have a more reliable option this season, knowing the problems with Dembele, Dier, Sissoko etc. I know he's been injured too, but there were a number of games he was just not started again.

 

[Hengy1]

He maybe got it righter than the others - which you are ignoring - I agree, but look at the problems we've had in midfield this season, I think if he'd been less risk averse with Winks last season, we'd have a more reliable option this season, knowing the problems with Dembele, Dier, Sissoko etc. I know he's been injured too, but there were a number of games he was just not started again.

I’ve not ignored anything. I’m pointing out your example of Winks is way the mark it’s unbelievable.

We had the best CM pairing last season in Waynama and Dembele so him getting over 1000 mins is great going.

Such a strange example to use.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

So? He played 200 in the Champions League. I guess they don't count?

Do you not think Winks could have played a PL game between December and April ? After he'd played so well in the league games he did play ?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I’ve not ignored anything. I’m pointing out your example of Winks is way the mark it’s unbelievable.

We had the best CM pairing last season in Waynama and Dembele so him getting over 1000 mins is great going.

Such a strange example to use.

That's your opinion. I don't think that was the best CM pairing in the league, I don't think we always had to play a CM2, and I don't think it was the one we played every week either.

Even if you disagree, which you are entitled to do, about Winks, there are other examples I gave.

 

[tiger666]

Do you not think Winks could have played a PL game between December and April ? After he'd played so well in the league games he did play ?

He did.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

He did.

I'm pretty sure he didn't start a league game from December 13 until April 1st.

 

[tiger666]

I'm pretty sure he didn't start a league game from December 13 until April 1st.

No but he played. This was his first season breaking through. This seems like a decent start for a young player. It's pretty unreasonable of you to expect more imo.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No but he played. This was his first season breaking through. This seems like a decent start for a young player. It's pretty unreasonable of you to expect more imo.

OK, lets agree to disagree about how much we think Winks could have started. He's not my only, or indeed, biggest issue with Poch and integration.

 

[allpaths]

And why are you suggesting poch doesn't apply this criteria to all equally? In that scenario the only reason could be that he just doesn't like youth players, which obviously isn't true.

My main problem is how the criticism of poch has turned since yesterday with the shit I've seen on twitter and the tone of some stuff in here, I respect people having concerns but shits on the road to getting toxic now. The comments from poch have been twisted horribly to fit people's agendas, he obviously didn't mean 8/10 as a professional footballer but 8/10 as a youth player. Kane is an 8/10 footballer, messi is a 9/10, no player is 10/10 so clearly poch isn't saying KWP needs to be on Kane's level. These comparisons saying "well is sissoko an 8/10 hehe?" to prove that poch is an evil youth hater have no value.

I think casual youth thread readers need to become less sensitive. You're in the youth thread their is always going to be the occasional rumble of some youth player that isnt getting his fair chance. Also people need to recognize the difference between making a legit critisim of poch and behaving outright treasonous.

Finally I do believe academy integration is not as big of a problem as it is made out to be, yet. To me their has only been two and half academy players under Poch that have been mistreated. Ultimately that's not horrible and he still has time to redeem himself with regards to all these players. But we should be able to but to bed the myth that Poch is some miracle worker when it comes to developing academy players.

That's a good argument, one of best I've seen in this thread but I just don't think it really applies to poch. He will throw young players in when the time is right. Winks's debut in a north London derby aginst West Ham, KWP against Newcastle when he could've just played dier there.

lol love how you're trying to spin KWP sole meaningful appearance as an example of Poch placing faith in our youth, please dont be silly. This is just as bad as Bus complaining about Winks' playing time.

 

[mill]

I get a bit fed up with people labelling opinions as agendas. Its not about not liking youth players, it's about misplaced risk aversion. I think Poch has pretty much unilateral respect from Spurs fans of all spectrums, and he gets shitlaods of praise, but some criticism is justifiable, not all, but some.

From his appointment, when great play was made of his willingness to integrate our best academy players, by him and the chairman, to as recently as his own words in his book when he several times rambled on about what a huge believer he is in giving youth chances, and often preferring to promote academy players rather than buying, he's set himself to be criticised, because he's continually not walked his talk.

From packing Veljkovic off on loan, Pritchard to West Brom on loan and then sold without getting a single minute, refusing - inexplicably - to even give Onomah a single minute as a CM, even in friendlies, the complete reversal of Edwards trajectory, buying another (far from perfect) RB, when KWP had waited patiently for his chance (with us already having a RB here), the lack of games for Winks last season.

In that time we've spent about 110 million (plus millions in wages) on Wimmer, Njie, Nkoudou, Sissoko and Aurier to name 4. When, IMO, if Poch was the great integrator of youth he claims to be, none of those purchases were really necessary and the remit of all of those players could have been filled from within out own ranks.

And I'm sorry if this thread gets into this debate often, but the bottom line is, there is no point to spending all the money we have on our academy, having one of the best academy directors in football, producing some of the best youth players that are winning WC's, promoting them up to the first team and.... there is no point in this thread really (just like the whole transfer rumour thread if we were only signed one player every three years) if we aren't going to give them the appropriate chances - whatever that may mean - but it's got to be more than we have seen in some cases so far.

Completely agree on the use of the word agenda on this site, it’s pathetic and cringeworthy and a sad attempt by the posters using it to discredit other posters opinions, it’s near enough pitchfork territory

 

[WindyCOYS]

And why are you suggesting poch doesn't apply this criteria to all equally? In that scenario the only reason could be that he just doesn't like youth players, which obviously isn't true.

My main problem is how the criticism of poch has turned since yesterday with the shit I've seen on twitter and the tone of some stuff in here, I respect people having concerns but shits on the road to getting toxic now. The comments from poch have been twisted horribly to fit people's agendas, he obviously didn't mean 8/10 as a professional footballer but 8/10 as a youth player. Kane is an 8/10 footballer, messi is a 9/10, no player is 10/10 so clearly poch isn't saying KWP needs to be on Kane's level. These comparisons saying "well is sissoko an 8/10 hehe?" to prove that poch is an evil youth hater have no value.

I don't think anyone's saying that. The point that's frustrating is that he's basically saying youth players now have to be near enough perfect before they're given a chance. And the counter-argument is that signings have been very much imperfect and yet chances have been offered.

Do you disagree with that general point?

 

[Blake Griffin]

FA Youth Cup Liverpool 2-3 Arsenal. In extra time. 2-1 to Pool then Arsenal equalised 5mins to go normal time. As we beat Liverpool comfortably where does that leave us in relation to Arsenal, bearing in mind they battered us earlier this season.

line-up vs arsenal:
de bie; hinds, walcott, statham, lyons-foster; p.maghoma, reynolds, patterson; clarke, bennett; griffiths

likely line-up vs chelsea:
de bie; hinds, eyoma, lyons-foster, reynolds; skipp, oakley-boothe, p.maghoma; richards, bennett; griffiths


eyoma, skipp and tob will make a big difference, as will having lyons-foster and reynolds in their natural positions. walcott(u16) and statham struggled badly in the arsenal game, obviously there were more problems on the day than just those two but a lot of the goals we conceded did ultimately come from them. arsenal are a good side this year but i think we'd give them a game with the above line-up(and you can easily sub in the likes of patterson or markanday without making it weaker).

The nature of youth teams is inconsistency though. Apart from Chelsea and City’s uber sides, the rest can all beat each other on their days.

even city haven't been that great this year and were knocked out of the cup by plymouth, chelsea are still ridiculously strong though.

 

[Dharmabum]

City didn't want to sell Sancho he chose not to sign his contract. And even then they made his life difficult which meant he had to go abroad if he wanted to play any games

They still had the "ownership" of Sancho and - if one is to believe ITK - ManC made it hard for him to sign for a EPL club.

 

[Lilbaz]

Had a beer with my mate and he gave some info on nick.
Seems that since the crash nick suffered from whiplash but then started getting pain in his stomach which they couldn't find the cause for. They've now found out (i think around boxing day) that the problem was actually coming from his neck. I was a bit pissed by this time so didn't go into too much detail. My mate hasn't seen nick or his dad for a couple of weeks so don't know really any more than that.

 

[Lilbaz]

FA Youth Cup Liverpool 2-3 Arsenal. In extra time. 2-1 to Pool then Arsenal equalised 5mins to go normal time. As we beat Liverpool comfortably where does that leave us in relation to Arsenal, bearing in mind they battered us earlier this season.

As has been said the priority of the youth teams isn't results but the development of the players.