The VAR Thread

Teemu

I Belong To Bale
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Agree. That game was a perfect example of how it should NOT be used. The replay should be only used in two scenarios IMO:
  1. To overrule the on-field ref if he has made a clear and obvious error. This does NOT mean whether someones nose hair was 1mm offside or not because that's not clear and obvious. This should be for things like:
    • Off-the-ball incidents that the ref missed e.g. Zidane headbut, stamping, spitting etc.
    • Dangerous play that the ref missed i.e. when someone flies in with their studs up at knee height but the ref doesn't see in full speed how bad a tackle it was and only gives a free kick
    • Obvious handballs that the ref didn't see
    • Blatantly incorrect offside decisions where there's no doubt about it
  2. When the ref thinks he saw something but couldn't be sure and wants to check it. But as mentioned above, the ref should have to request a specific incident they want to look at, they can't just go to VAR on the off-chance that something may have been wrong
I do agree with you BUT what do you suggest happens if the referee asks for VAR to review a particular incident, but then the replay shows a different infraction?

For example, the referee asks to check if the striker is offside, but then in the replay he notices that another player in the corner of the screen has been tugging back the last defender. Is the decision just limited to a simple yes/no offside decision as that's what he's requested, even though there's a potential foul that he didn't see?

I don't really know the answer. I'm still to be convinced that VAR can be a success in a sport as fluid as football.
 

'O Zio

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I do agree with you BUT what do you suggest happens if the referee asks for VAR to review a particular incident, but then the replay shows a different infraction?

For example, the referee asks to check if the striker is offside, but then in the replay he notices that another player in the corner of the screen has been tugging back the last defender. Is the decision just limited to a simple yes/no offside decision as that's what he's requested, even though there's a potential foul that he didn't see?

I don't really know the answer. I'm still to be convinced that VAR can be a success in a sport as fluid as football.
I'd say in that situation the ref wouldn't be able to overturn the decision because it wasn't the incident that he asked to look at. However, if it was something serious enough then that's where the first past of what I said comes into play e.g. if the ref wanted to look for offside, but in the replay there was a separate incident where someone was clearly brought down in the box, then the VAR would be able to award the penalty because it would be something clear and obvious that the ref had missed.
 

slartibartfast

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Receives a warm welcome from me.
No its not perfect and will no doubt be tweeked a lot in next few years but for christs sake the current situation cannot continue. Its a joke.
On MOTD few weeks back Shearer said 'They can consider themselves hard done by there' about 4 fkin times. Actually he changed how he worded it on the 4th time as he obviously recognised this was embarrassing.
We had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Liverpool had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Wolves had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Southampton had a goal wrongly disallowed plus there were other shocking incorrect decisions and thats in about 2 weekends worth of pl football!
It cant carry on like that with a 'well it all evens itself up at the end of the season' defence. As Charlie Austin rightly raged, this is being watched all over the world and clubs lose millions based on these decisions. People lose their jobs. Its not good enough.
Welcome var. Been a long time coming
 

TheChosenOne

Ho hum
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Receives a warm welcome from me.
No its not perfect and will no doubt be tweeked a lot in next few years but for christs sake the current situation cannot continue. Its a joke.
On MOTD few weeks back Shearer said 'They can consider themselves hard done by there' about 4 fkin times. Actually he changed how he worded it on the 4th time as he obviously recognised this was embarrassing.
We had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Liverpool had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Wolves had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Southampton had a goal wrongly disallowed plus there were other shocking incorrect decisions and thats in about 2 weekends worth of pl football!
It cant carry on like that with a 'well it all evens itself up at the end of the season' defence. As Charlie Austin rightly raged, this is being watched all over the world and clubs lose millions based on these decisions. People lose their jobs. Its not good enough.
Welcome var. Been a long time coming
How many "goals" did Leicester score with their rough housing penalty box antics "that" season ?
 

'O Zio

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Dec 27, 2014
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Receives a warm welcome from me.
No its not perfect and will no doubt be tweeked a lot in next few years but for christs sake the current situation cannot continue. Its a joke.
On MOTD few weeks back Shearer said 'They can consider themselves hard done by there' about 4 fkin times. Actually he changed how he worded it on the 4th time as he obviously recognised this was embarrassing.
We had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Liverpool had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Wolves had a goal wrongly disallowed.
Southampton had a goal wrongly disallowed plus there were other shocking incorrect decisions and thats in about 2 weekends worth of pl football!
It cant carry on like that with a 'well it all evens itself up at the end of the season' defence. As Charlie Austin rightly raged, this is being watched all over the world and clubs lose millions based on these decisions. People lose their jobs. Its not good enough.
Welcome var. Been a long time coming
It's by no means perfect and never will be, but then again what is? I think at the end of the day it comes down to the simple question: Is someone more likely to get a decision right if they are a) only allowed to see it in full speed from whatever angle they happen to be at at the time or b) able to watch a slow motion replay with multiple angles? I think we all know the answer to that one

They'll still make mistakes and they'll still make decisions that people don't agree with, but those cases will be significantly rarer with VAR than without, and that's absolutely undeniable.
 

jamesinashby

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VAR arrives next season....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46224473

Video assistant referees are set to be used in the Premier League next season, after clubs agreed in principle to their introduction.
The Premier League will now make a formal request to the International Football Association Board and Fifa.

There will be some interesting incidents next season and some questionable decisions using this method but all in all I welcome it's introduction....(y)
I was a strong advocate for it, became unsure during the trial period, but having seen so many wrong decisions this season, now feel it is a must. At the end of the day it will not be 100% technology requiring, at times, a human interpretation where the cameras cannot provide absolute proof. However, if it reduces the wrong decisions by a massive amount, it should prove to be a welcome improvement.
I suspect that it won't take long to learn with the irritation caused through stopping the flow of the game.

COYS
 

brendanb50

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Thought i'd bump this after another interesting night of VAR.

So what's the consensus now? For me its not being used properly and the decision making is still massively fallible behind it.

A lot of sense in this thread about it needing time to be used and adapted but for me the refereeing is so poor, that even with this tool, the decision making is still poor and often wrong. Is this just a case of the right tool being in the wrong hands or do the refs need simpler/clearer guidelines on it's use? Do certain rules need adapting for VAR integration?

One thing i really dislike it for was when we scored the last night. The moment of pure joy was stifled in that the goal would automatically be checked - that usual 5 seconds of seeing if the linesman flagged the ball as off was prolonged and it robs the fan of some of the magic IMO.
 

wooderz

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Thought i'd bump this after another interesting night of VAR.

So what's the consensus now? For me its not being used properly and the decision making is still massively fallible behind it.

A lot of sense in this thread about it needing time to be used and adapted but for me the refereeing is so poor, that even with this tool, the decision making is still poor and often wrong. Is this just a case of the right tool being in the wrong hands or do the refs need simpler/clearer guidelines on it's use? Do certain rules need adapting for VAR integration?

One thing i really dislike it for was when we scored the last night. The moment of pure joy was stifled in that the goal would automatically be checked - that usual 5 seconds of seeing if the linesman flagged the ball as off was prolonged and it robs the fan of some of the magic IMO.
As much as I hate the rules to give the penalty, currently, it is a penalty. The rule needs changing there, not VAR

Can't agree more on the goal though. Went nuts, hugging, high fiving, dancing - then VAR comes on the screen, oh shit... wait... wait... wait... wait....

Phew
 

brendanb50

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As much as I hate the rules to give the penalty, currently, it is a penalty. The rule needs changing there, not VAR

Can't agree more on the goal though. Went nuts, hugging, high fiving, dancing - then VAR comes on the screen, oh shit... wait... wait... wait... wait....

Phew
Fair point regarding the handball. I guess similar to the Rashford pen (again for me just wrong) if the rules state that's a pen then the ref needs to play to those rules. Definitely needs a change in my view.

The latter point though - doesn't this rob the game of something? I was all for VAR previously but it's impact definitely has it's drawbacks. Does getting the odd controversial decision right (if called right by the ref anyway) balance out stealing away some of the magic of the game? I'm less sure now than i was on it.
 
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cwy21

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As much as I hate the rules to give the penalty, currently, it is a penalty. The rule needs changing there, not VAR
The rule is being rewritten for next year to make it clear that what happened last night is a penalty.
 

Teemu

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Thought i'd bump this after another interesting night of VAR.

So what's the consensus now? For me its not being used properly and the decision making is still massively fallible behind it.

A lot of sense in this thread about it needing time to be used and adapted but for me the refereeing is so poor, that even with this tool, the decision making is still poor and often wrong. Is this just a case of the right tool being in the wrong hands or do the refs need simpler/clearer guidelines on it's use? Do certain rules need adapting for VAR integration?

One thing i really dislike it for was when we scored the last night. The moment of pure joy was stifled in that the goal would automatically be checked - that usual 5 seconds of seeing if the linesman flagged the ball as off was prolonged and it robs the fan of some of the magic IMO.
I hate it. It just makes the game so sterile and robs the fans of that spontaneous moment of joy/despair when a goal or decision goes for/against you.
 

brendanb50

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The rule is being rewritten for next year to make it clear that what happened last night is a penalty.
Are we going a bit full circle then with the handball rule again.

We had a spell a while back when kicking the ball at a players arm (usually out from body but not always) in the box seemed to get pens awarded.

Then we had to see a clear movement towards the ball with the arm to imply deliberate action, that seemed to stop a lot of the shots/crosses being awarded as pens because more often than not, the arms are out from the body because you're moving/tacking.

Now we seem to be back to the first scenario. I presume it's with the notion that there's movement towards the ball but for me that's not always the case. It's flawed in my view but hey as long as they make it clear - not just for plebs like be but for the officiating clown, that would be great.
 
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brendanb50

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I hate it. It just makes the game so sterile and robs the fans of that spontaneous moment of joy/despair when a goal or decision goes for/against you.
Last night was a bit of a change for me in this regard, hadn't felt that for a goal we'd scored before and i didn't like it.
 

Shadydan

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Watch how many pens are given next season and watch the rule get rewritten again, the current ruling isn't sustainable and will cause a lot of outrage for unfair handballs - gonna see a lot of penalties next season.
 

werty

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Thought i'd bump this after another interesting night of VAR.

So what's the consensus now? For me its not being used properly and the decision making is still massively fallible behind it.

A lot of sense in this thread about it needing time to be used and adapted but for me the refereeing is so poor, that even with this tool, the decision making is still poor and often wrong. Is this just a case of the right tool being in the wrong hands or do the refs need simpler/clearer guidelines on it's use? Do certain rules need adapting for VAR integration?

One thing i really dislike it for was when we scored the last night. The moment of pure joy was stifled in that the goal would automatically be checked - that usual 5 seconds of seeing if the linesman flagged the ball as off was prolonged and it robs the fan of some of the magic IMO.
The ref made the right call by the letter of the law. The rule is wrong, but it's that not for VAR to decide.

I agree with the last paragraph, but I guess I'm used to it from watching other sports that it probably doesn't bother me as much as others. I haven't been in a ground where I'm waiting for the review so I don't know what the feeling is like - did people in the stadium get the replays and know what they were looking for? I think a minute or so of uncertainty to get the right decision is worth the wait though and it'll just take some getting used to.

I think we might have benefitted from it last night too, which I don't think has been talked about. Son's onside/offside decision was as close as it gets, and maybe if the lineman didn't have the safety net of VAR reviewing the decision he would have flagged.
 

nidge

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I like the idea of VAR but have come to hate how it is applied. I honestly couldn't celebrate Son's goal last night because I knew it would go to VAR with how close the ball was to the by-line. If VAR continues to do that to it will kill the excitement of football for me.
 

brendanb50

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The ref made the right call by the letter of the law. The rule is wrong, but it's that not for VAR to decide.

I agree with the last paragraph, but I guess I'm used to it from watching other sports that it probably doesn't bother me as much as others. I haven't been in a ground where I'm waiting for the review so I don't know what the feeling is like - did people in the stadium get the replays and know what they were looking for? I think a minute or so of uncertainty to get the right decision is worth the wait though and it'll just take some getting used to.

I think we might have benefitted from it last night too, which I don't think has been talked about. Son's onside/offside decision was as close as it gets, and maybe if the lineman didn't have the safety net of VAR reviewing the decision he would have flagged.
Maybe it is a 'getting used to it' thing ultimately. I was just saddened that it robbed the game of it's spontaneity to a small degree.

The thing with bad decisions and sometimes getting away with the odd offside etc. is that these things do balance themselves out in my opinion - that was football. One week you get the rub of the green, the next you don't. For me, better refereeing in general would mitigate a large need for VAR. Instead we seem to be supplementing poor refereeing with a tool which in the wrong hands = more poor refereeing.

It's the way forward and i know it will improve in time but in this phasing in period, it's very hit and miss to me.
 
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