The VAR Thread

Marty

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There was 2 handballs in that phase of play, the game should have been stopped at the very least.
That's what surprised me when the first goal was given, not that it wasn't pulled back for a penalty, but that the handball wasn't judged to have been part of the attack that led to the goal, which should instantly have led to it being chalked off. I suppose it can be argued that the awful attempt at a clearance starts a new phase of play.
It heavily goes to the quality of refs, no? Atkinsons and Mikedeans are crazy with or without VAR

Cakir and Bryh on the other hand benefit from VAR cause they use it properly
What VAR has done in the PL this season is that it's shown up the refs as being at best uneven and at worst incompetent, and it's highlighted that the offside and handball rules in particular are not fit for purpose and need further tweaking at the earliest possible opportunity. VAR is not a useful tool when the competence of those using the technology isn't good enough.
 

nailsy

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Big game, talk of it potentially being a title decider, at a stadium where there are no screens to show replays... colour me shocked that VAR wasn't used in the same way as every other game so far this season.
They don't usually show the replays on the big screen do they?

I'm highly sceptical but again, they're so fucking incompetent it wouldn't be that much of a shock if it was true.

If it is true, it's a bit weird because I feel like if there are technical issues they should just admit it and then openly play the game without VAR. it's the same for both teams so that in itself is not necessarily an issue. I suppose you could say it would be a farce if there's then a blatantly wrong decision that affects the title race, but let's be honest, even with bloody VAR they've managed to make a complete pigs ear of plenty of games anyway. It's the lying about it that's far worse than just not having VAR due to technical issues.
I'm sure VAR has been unavailable in matches in other leagues and they've only announced it after the game has finished.

I can't imagine that City would keep quiet about it after the way that Pep reacted at the end.
 

brendanb50

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I feel the officiating has gotten worse this year which is shocking considering how abysmal it was last season.
Absolutely. I get there are teething issues to overcome but it's implementation has been flawed massively.

I was for it when it came about - i figured that no matter how marginal the call the factual answer would be clear with VAR - like the ball crossing the line or not. However, there are too many areas where it's been used either inconsistently or questionably.

Maybe a cricket type model where each club has 3 appeals to use it on key decisions would be less controversial.
 

Marty

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They don't usually show the replays on the big screen do they?
I believe they show the final conclusion on the screen, i.e. the frame of an offside. But not replays as such, not, not the constant winding back and forth on a situation like e.g. Alli's "handball".
 

MK Yid

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I've got a question / scenario. It's hypothetical, but based on yesterday's Trent Alexander Arnold handball incident and subsequent Liverpool goal 20 seconds later, which got me thinking.

We know that the threshold for handballs is lower where it leads to a goal as an attacker (i.e. if it hits your hand at all in the build up, it is disallowed) than it is to give away a penalty as a defender (has to be intent to handle the ball, or whatever the law is these days...).

So VAR took a look at that TAA handball yesterday and decided it wasn't a penalty. Fine. Liverpool then went straight up the other end and scored. Now in this instance, 20 seconds passed and that's fine, I'm not saying it should have been disallowed, but let's say Liverpool broke far quicker. Say 1 long ball over the top, then finished the 1 v 1 - it's feasible a goal could be scored less than 10 seconds, and only 1 or 2 passes after a handball appeal for a penalty. Although unlikely, this is a perfectly realistic possibility. We've seen goals disallowed for an offside in the build up which were 10 seconds before the goal (and VAR can only intervene where there is an offside in the direct build up to a goal), so we have to assume that a handball equally as far back would also be considered as during the build up to a goal.

In this instance then, would VAR look at the handball, decide it isn't enough for a penalty, but see it did hit his hand, so disallow the goal and then it would have to come back for a Man City penalty, even though they just decided it wasn't a penalty :ROFLMAO:

This isn't even a particularly far fetched scenario, but feels utterly ridiculous.
IFAB were asked this, and said that would not be the case. The ball would have travelled such a long distance, that the handball would not be considered a contributing factor to the goal, and it wou”d be allowed to stand.
 
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JCRD

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So the PL and PGMOL agree that VAR is working and that the whole pitchside monitor approach will be used sparingly?

I guess one thing for it - WAAAAAAAAAAAAR

Nah seirously basically it means we shut up and stop moaning about it including myself.
 

Marty

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Premier League statement: VAR



At a Shareholders’ meeting today, the implementation of VAR was discussed at length and the Premier League and PGMOL committed to improving the consistency of decisions, speeding up processes and increasing communication to fans.



PGMOL managing director Mike Riley addressed the clubs and accepted improvement is required. While VAR is an ongoing process and has corrected a significant number of on-field errors, he explained that speed and consistency of decision-making are priority areas of work and will improve as the officials become more experienced with the technology and protocols. The clear and obvious test was reaffirmed for subjective decisions to narrow the area of debate.



Going forward, and working within the IFAB protocol, there will be increased information made available to attending fans and viewers watching around the world. This will explain in more detail what is being checked. Importantly, the Premier League will continue to show the definitive clip or image for all overturned decisions in stadia, and remains the only major European League to do so.



The policy of using the Referee Review Area was discussed and it was reemphasised that it would be reserved for unseen incidents, or when information from the VAR is outside the expectation range of the referee. Ensuring the pace and tempo of Premier League football remains an important focus for clubs.



The core principles of VAR were reiterated. These are minimum interference for maximum benefit, maintaining the pace and tempo of Premier League football and correcting clear and obvious on-field errors.



Clubs strongly represented the views of their supporters and agreed VAR should be under constant review. Research will now take place with fans, and other relevant stakeholders, to understand their views on how the application of VAR could be best improved
 

spursfan77

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So the PL and PGMOL agree that VAR is working and that the whole pitchside monitor approach will be used sparingly?

I guess one thing for it - WAAAAAAAAAAAAR

Nah seirously basically it means we shut up and stop moaning about it including myself.
I’m not sure how they get to have so much power. Seems the clubs have to bend to their whim. Surely it should be the other way around?

The clubs will get their way in the end with any luck but it might cost everyone a sensible season.
 

Gbspurs

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No VAR last night in the England match it actually felt really good
And it feels really bad when you get screwed over by an obviously bad decision. VAR has a place but it is just being mismanaged. It's a brand new technology I don't know why people assumed there wouldn't be issues. In the long run it will be worthwhile.
 

Shadydan

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And it feels really bad when you get screwed over by an obviously bad decision. VAR has a place but it is just being mismanaged. It's a brand new technology I don't know why people assumed there wouldn't be issues. In the long run it will be worthwhile.
I think people assumed there would be issues but also assumed that they'd be some consistency and the PL not to make a complete pigs ear of it.
 

yankspurs

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And it feels really bad when you get screwed over by an obviously bad decision. VAR has a place but it is just being mismanaged. It's a brand new technology I don't know why people assumed there wouldn't be issues. In the long run it will be worthwhile.
I mean, its not really that new, is it? It’s been around in Europe for about 3 years now and been used in other continents longer. The problem is the PL’s implementation. It’s been objectively bad. Unlike anything we’ve seen in uefa, fifa, or other leagues, and I am including the WWC which was atrocious. Breaking it down to an imperfect science of millimeters, no pitchside screens and deferring to refs initial decision, setting a remarkably high bar for reversing them and worst of all, taking 10 minutes to review. The league doubling down on this makes it even worse. It will get far, far, far worse this season before any reforms are made.
 

Spurrific

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I think that disallowed goal for Palace today was a fucking disgrace. If that was a Pool player pushing a Palace player before they scored, I am 100% certain they wouldn’t have disallowed it.
 

Danners9

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Wolves had a goal disallowed. Jimenez comes back from offside, receives the ball, plays in Jota who then scores. Linesman flags.


Jota seems to suggest they should be playing on until the VAR can review it. Similar to Grealish earlier this season.
 

Gb160

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I think that disallowed goal for Palace today was a fucking disgrace. If that was a Pool player pushing a Palace player before they scored, I am 100% certain they wouldn’t have disallowed it.
The farcical thing is how can that be disallowed for a foul, yet Lamela against City wasn't deemed a foul?
Have they just changed the VAR rules halfway through the season?
 

SugarRay

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Why on Earth were Leicester allowed to retake the penalty? Vardy has it saved, Maddison encroaches and scores from the save from the keeper. In my mind, goal chalked off, Brighton free kick. Maddison shouldn’t have been in the box etc

They then allow Vardy another chance to score from the penalty. I thought that would only take place if the Brighton players encroaching cleared the ball after the save?

I’m looking forward to playing Leicester. They’re becoming so overrated
 

Marty

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Why on Earth were Leicester allowed to retake the penalty? Vardy has it saved, Maddison encroaches and scores from the save from the keeper. In my mind, goal chalked off, Brighton free kick. Maddison shouldn’t have been in the box etc

They then allow Vardy another chance to score from the penalty. I thought that would only take place if the Brighton players encroaching cleared the ball after the save?

I’m looking forward to playing Leicester. They’re becoming so overrated
The VAR decided a retake because players from both sides were encroaching. Which is just confusing as that isn't the way it has been applied previously, as you point out.

What VAR SHOULD have done is called a retake because Ryan was off his line, because he was a yard off and if he doesn't save it the second situation doesn't happen. But that wasn't the explanation they gave.
 

SugarRay

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The VAR decided a retake because players from both sides were encroaching. Which is just confusing as that isn't the way it has been applied previously, as you point out.

What VAR SHOULD have done is called a retake because Ryan was off his line, because he was a yard off and if he doesn't save it the second situation doesn't happen. But that wasn't the explanation they gave.
To be honest I didn’t even notice Ryan off his line. If that’s the case then absolutely that’s a retake.
 

Marty

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To be honest I didn’t even notice Ryan off his line. If that’s the case then absolutely that’s a retake.
For me, one of the weirdest things in all officiating is that assistants have a >95% success rate for offsides but can't spot a keeper jumping a yard off his line when a penalty is taken, when the ball is stationary and the goal line is literally all they have to look at.

Yes, it should've been retaken because Ryan was off his line, but that wasn't the reason VAR gave for the retake. It's just a mess.
 
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