What the pundits & media are saying about us

[Beni]

I don’t really have a problem with what Murphy said. We do need to go on a run. We may be only six points off top four with a game in hand, but there are teams ahead of us in that race who we need to slip up, more than once. We must get some consistency, and we must hope that all those teams have worse run ins than us.

Top four isn’t gone, but it’s a big ask at this stage.

I don’t disagree that we need to obviously go on a run, but that’s like all teams above and around us. The difference in points between 3rd to 9th is not massive, and differences in how many games played by each team is blurring the table.

However Murphy is just so transaparent when it comes to us, like I bet he considers Liverpool are still in the race for top 4, yet if we win our game in hand, we are a point behind them with a better goal difference.

 

[Tucker]

I don’t disagree that we need to obviously go on a run, but that’s like all teams above and around us. The difference in points between 3rd to 9th is not massive, and differences in how many games played by each team is blurring the table.

However Murphy is just so transaparent when it comes to us, like I bet he considers Liverpool are still in the race for top 4, yet if we win our game in hand, we are a point behind them with a better goal difference.

We shouldn’t assume that we will win our game in hand, it’s against Villa who are a good side.

 

[Beni]

We shouldn’t assume that we will win our game in hand, it’s against Villa who are a good side.

Not assuming anything, but it’s a game that is certainly capable of us winning

 

[Tucker]

Not assuming anything, but it’s a game that is certainly capable of us winning

We are more than capable of beating anyone imo, but the league is tight and very unpredictable. There will be a lot of twists and turns before the end.

The side who can go on a run will probably make top four. That’s a big ask for anyone in the face imo.

 

[topper]

There isn't a single team in the League that doesn't have a major fuck up tucked up their sleeve, and I include Man City who've done it fairly recently. We do need to go on a run of games, but so does everyone above us to keep the status quo, and I wouldn't put a penny on that.

As evidenced by the fact they couldn't score against our defence a few months back!

 

[Japhet]

As evidenced by the fact they couldn't score against our defence a few months back!

Seems like a lifetime ago.

 

[JonnySpurs]

I think almost all neutrals would pick Wan Bissaka and De Gea over Aurier and Lloris and I think Lindelof, while not brilliant, has to be better than Dier and Sanchez atm. Fred and Shaw are also a bit underrated in general with Shaw their player of the season and currently creating the most chances of any defender in the league (although I love Reg and Hojbjerg so would still pick them).

Absolutely fair and don't get me wrong, I'm merely making the point that in terms of first 11's the sides are FAR closer than Keane would have any believe. AWB is a good RB but he's totally lacking in attack whilst being outstanding defensively. Aurier is essentially good on both sides, not amazing but good and personally I prefer that balance in my FB's. De Gea drops as many clangers as Lloris does these days so I stand by my call that they're on par.

Personally, I think Keane is just a very emotional man that speaks before he thinks a lot of the time and as a result talks a fair amount of shit. I think if he'd picked Man City or Liverpool he may have had a point (although Son and Kane walk into their teams too...) but at the same time I can see where he's coming from to an extent.

Agreed.

There are a few Spurs players that I'd say are significantly worse than the equivalent squad players at our rivals: Winks, Sissoko, Sanchez and Doherty (as a full back) are barely top half players most of the time and players like Davies, Aurier, Dier, Lucas, Lamela and, seemingly, Bergwijn, are all patchy and limited in certain ways. I don't think any of those 9 players would get into the United, Chelsea, City or Liverpool teams, yet they have started regularly for us this season.

We have a core of very good players (Son, Kane, Ndombele, Hojbjerg, Reguilon, Bale, Lo Celso and usually Lloris) but the drop off in quality is bigger at Spurs than any of the other 'big 6' except Arsenal. We seriously need to upgrade at CB, CM and RB.

Yep, don't disagree although I'd argue that a few of those are struggling for confidence. City have been linked with Winks and I wouldn't put it past him to go to a club like that and be a very useful squad player. The issue for him is that he won't accept that here, having been a starter but if he moved to LFC or City then he would and probably thrive.

It's safe to say that Davies, Dier, Sissoko, Doherty all need to be upgraded.
I still really like Bergwijn and believe he's been something of a victim of the way he's been deployed with a specific, more defensive role in games which has affected his attacking confidence.
Lamela is still great off the bench if he can stay fit (unlikely)

Our issue this summer will be addressing key areas with not a huge amount of money available. Plenty of big free agents are gonna be available again tho so looking there and being smart with finding deals (e.g. like Reguilon) is the key.

GK, RB, CB and CF are crucial. Danny Ings is surely gonna want out of Southampton this summer, we've already been linked. He would be the perfect option to both rotate and play with Kane. Equally Nick Pope needs to be the GK choice. English, good age and absolutely brilliant.

 

[buckley]

Because there is so much live football on all tv I dont feel the urge to watch Sky Sports as much as I hate it but if you are a sports person we have been pretty much held to ransom as it is sky or nothing really .
I turned sky on for a few minutes and turned over almost immediately the reason being Merson was going on about selling Kane and it seems that every sky pundit has it in their contract " until spurs win a trophy you must talk about selling spurs players until they can win a trophy " it is getting to epic proportions now . The other one is what would they do without their two best player . The question is not asked of Liverpool when they lost one of their best players and lost four games on the Trott as in every club take out their two best players and they would not be the same . For some clubs ( Fernandes ) at Man United just one player and they would not be so affected.
I am only guessing here but Leicester's point per game without Vardy would show a marked difference and so on for every club.
I could name every club and if their two best players were missing they would struggle .
It really is an obvious and pointless argument but these highly paid ex pro pundits seem unable or more likely do not want to see the difference but that would not fit their spurs agenda . Schoolboy stuff really .

 

[Gassin's finest]

An alternative take:

Tottenham's defence is much better than you think

Mourinho has criticised his defenders, while Kane and co are seen as Tottenham's strength but that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny

theathletic.co.uk

Spoiler: Tottenham's defence is better than you think

If you wanted a sign that Tottenham have turned a corner, then how about this. Four times this season Spurs have gone 1-0 up in a game just like this one, against a team they should be beating, only to get forced back in the second half, eventually concede an equaliser, and drop two points.

It happened against Newcastle United, Crystal Palace, Wolves and, in fact, at home to Fulham less than two months ago.

For a worryingly long chunk of Thursday evening at Craven Cottage, it felt like it was going to happen again, a fifth avoidable 1-1 of the season, two more points thrown away, fourth place more distant than ever. Except this time it did not.

This time, the Spurs defence held firm. This was not going to fall into that category of frustrating 1-1s that have undermined Spurs’ season. You might say that the plan worked, or you might say that Spurs got away with it, depending on your interpretation. But there is no question that this was a big win, achieved by a group of players who have given everything this season, and who were aided by some crucial Jose Mourinho substitutions in the second half. There was a genuine sense of relief when the tension was popped by the final whistle.

One of the main narratives of this season has been defensive mistakes costing Spurs points, and it is a theme Mourinho has not been slow to bring up as his team slid down the table. The first Fulham game was the perfect example, as Mourinho pointed to the “individual characteristics” of his defenders after Ivan Cavaleiro headed in a late equaliser. The theory, which has a lot of traction, is that the strikers have been bailing out the defence.

On this reading of Spurs’ season, you might argue that the avoidance of defensive mistakes was the key to this win. Toby Alderweireld was faultless for his third game in a row, all of which have brought clean sheets. Davinson Sanchez continued his renaissance, allowing Spurs to defend high up the pitch in the first half, keeping pace with Maja and Ademola Lookman, throwing himself in front of everything. And whether he meant it or not, his hurried clearance hitting Mario Lemina’s left hand saved Spurs from conceding an equaliser when the game was in the balance.

But what if this narrative is the wrong way round? What if the defence, for all the criticism they have taken, was never Spurs’ biggest problem? And that this clean sheet, their ninth in the league this season, should not be as big a surprise as we think?

If you ask yourself which aspect of the game Spurs are better at, attacking or defending, then it would be quite natural to go for the former. That is what Harry Kane and Son Heung-min do, after all, and they are Spurs’ stand out individuals. Gareth Bale, starting against last night, is threatening to join them. The return of Dele Alli to the starting eleven gave Spurs a front line the fans have craved all season. “BASK”, to give them one of their less rude acronyms, might be the envy of their Premier League rivals.

But the numbers tell a different story. Rank the Premier League teams by their defensive records and only two teams are better than Spurs. Manchester City are the best, conceding 17 goals in 27 games, miles better than everyone else. Then there is Chelsea on 25 goals and then Spurs, joint-third with Aston Villa and Arsenal on 27 goals. West Ham, Leicester City, Manchester United, Everton and Liverpool have progressively worse records.

Look at the other end of the pitch. You have to go past Manchester City (56 goals), Manchester United (53), Liverpool (47), Leicester (46) and Leeds (43) before you get to Tottenham, level on 42 goals scored with Chelsea, the joint-sixth best records in the league.

In very simple terms, then, you can argue that Spurs are better at defending than they are going forward, no matter how high-profile their front line players. So any frustrations about the state of Spurs’ season that only blames the defence seems slightly misplaced.

Alderweireld, Sanchez and Eric Dier have taken plenty of criticism this year but none of them are bad players. Alderweireld was the lynchpin when Spurs had genuinely the best defence in the country, conceding just 26 league goals in 2016-17. Sanchez and Dier, as Jamie Redknapp explained to Roy Keane on Sky Sports last Sunday, are both established internationals with top sides and both players have been important parts of better Tottenham defences than this one.

Dier has not been in his best form recently, as both he and Mourinho have publicly discussed. But he will surely come back into form and favour soon enough. This has been Sanchez’s best week of the season, impressive against both Burnley and Fulham, in both games showing off the speed that allows Spurs to defend in a more aggressive way. Alderweireld is not as quick but he has all the nous of experience and led the Tottenham defence through the game on Thursday.

No one would argue that Spurs’ centre-backs are the very best in the country and Mourinho might well want his own expensive Ruben Dias equivalent. (The former Benfica man, who Mourinho once wanted at Spurs, has transformed Manchester City this season.)

But these are good defenders and more often than not they have played well this season. They have been put under a lot of pressure and they have not always fully withstood it. But those 1-1 draws of the past could be explained as failures of other parts of the team, rather than just the back four. The idea that the functioning attack has been bailing out the dysfunctional defence does not withstand much scrutiny.

On Thursday evening at Fulham, the defence came through intact, keeping a precious clean sheet, and earning Spurs the three points. If Spurs have a good end to the season, and they still can, whether in the league, the Carabao Cup or the Europa League, these centre-backs will be integral to that success. They are better than many people think, as they showed again and again this week.

 

[Marty]

An alternative take:

Tottenham's defence is much better than you think

Mourinho has criticised his defenders, while Kane and co are seen as Tottenham's strength but that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny

theathletic.co.uk

Spoiler: Tottenham's defence is better than you think

If you wanted a sign that Tottenham have turned a corner, then how about this. Four times this season Spurs have gone 1-0 up in a game just like this one, against a team they should be beating, only to get forced back in the second half, eventually concede an equaliser, and drop two points.

It happened against Newcastle United, Crystal Palace, Wolves and, in fact, at home to Fulham less than two months ago.

For a worryingly long chunk of Thursday evening at Craven Cottage, it felt like it was going to happen again, a fifth avoidable 1-1 of the season, two more points thrown away, fourth place more distant than ever. Except this time it did not.

This time, the Spurs defence held firm. This was not going to fall into that category of frustrating 1-1s that have undermined Spurs’ season. You might say that the plan worked, or you might say that Spurs got away with it, depending on your interpretation. But there is no question that this was a big win, achieved by a group of players who have given everything this season, and who were aided by some crucial Jose Mourinho substitutions in the second half. There was a genuine sense of relief when the tension was popped by the final whistle.

One of the main narratives of this season has been defensive mistakes costing Spurs points, and it is a theme Mourinho has not been slow to bring up as his team slid down the table. The first Fulham game was the perfect example, as Mourinho pointed to the “individual characteristics” of his defenders after Ivan Cavaleiro headed in a late equaliser. The theory, which has a lot of traction, is that the strikers have been bailing out the defence.

On this reading of Spurs’ season, you might argue that the avoidance of defensive mistakes was the key to this win. Toby Alderweireld was faultless for his third game in a row, all of which have brought clean sheets. Davinson Sanchez continued his renaissance, allowing Spurs to defend high up the pitch in the first half, keeping pace with Maja and Ademola Lookman, throwing himself in front of everything. And whether he meant it or not, his hurried clearance hitting Mario Lemina’s left hand saved Spurs from conceding an equaliser when the game was in the balance.

But what if this narrative is the wrong way round? What if the defence, for all the criticism they have taken, was never Spurs’ biggest problem? And that this clean sheet, their ninth in the league this season, should not be as big a surprise as we think?

If you ask yourself which aspect of the game Spurs are better at, attacking or defending, then it would be quite natural to go for the former. That is what Harry Kane and Son Heung-min do, after all, and they are Spurs’ stand out individuals. Gareth Bale, starting against last night, is threatening to join them. The return of Dele Alli to the starting eleven gave Spurs a front line the fans have craved all season. “BASK”, to give them one of their less rude acronyms, might be the envy of their Premier League rivals.

But the numbers tell a different story. Rank the Premier League teams by their defensive records and only two teams are better than Spurs. Manchester City are the best, conceding 17 goals in 27 games, miles better than everyone else. Then there is Chelsea on 25 goals and then Spurs, joint-third with Aston Villa and Arsenal on 27 goals. West Ham, Leicester City, Manchester United, Everton and Liverpool have progressively worse records.

Look at the other end of the pitch. You have to go past Manchester City (56 goals), Manchester United (53), Liverpool (47), Leicester (46) and Leeds (43) before you get to Tottenham, level on 42 goals scored with Chelsea, the joint-sixth best records in the league.

In very simple terms, then, you can argue that Spurs are better at defending than they are going forward, no matter how high-profile their front line players. So any frustrations about the state of Spurs’ season that only blames the defence seems slightly misplaced.

Alderweireld, Sanchez and Eric Dier have taken plenty of criticism this year but none of them are bad players. Alderweireld was the lynchpin when Spurs had genuinely the best defence in the country, conceding just 26 league goals in 2016-17. Sanchez and Dier, as Jamie Redknapp explained to Roy Keane on Sky Sports last Sunday, are both established internationals with top sides and both players have been important parts of better Tottenham defences than this one.

Dier has not been in his best form recently, as both he and Mourinho have publicly discussed. But he will surely come back into form and favour soon enough. This has been Sanchez’s best week of the season, impressive against both Burnley and Fulham, in both games showing off the speed that allows Spurs to defend in a more aggressive way. Alderweireld is not as quick but he has all the nous of experience and led the Tottenham defence through the game on Thursday.

No one would argue that Spurs’ centre-backs are the very best in the country and Mourinho might well want his own expensive Ruben Dias equivalent. (The former Benfica man, who Mourinho once wanted at Spurs, has transformed Manchester City this season.)

But these are good defenders and more often than not they have played well this season. They have been put under a lot of pressure and they have not always fully withstood it. But those 1-1 draws of the past could be explained as failures of other parts of the team, rather than just the back four. The idea that the functioning attack has been bailing out the dysfunctional defence does not withstand much scrutiny.

On Thursday evening at Fulham, the defence came through intact, keeping a precious clean sheet, and earning Spurs the three points. If Spurs have a good end to the season, and they still can, whether in the league, the Carabao Cup or the Europa League, these centre-backs will be integral to that success. They are better than many people think, as they showed again and again this week.

Eh.

It's well and good pointing at the CBs supposed individual qualities but it ignores a few things.

1. The full backs haven't been reliable so the CBs, Højbjerg and, when he's played, Sissoko have had to do a lot of work covering wide areas.
2. Sanchez was looking diabolically bad when he was in the side earlier this season
3. Toby is categorically not the player he was in 16/17
4. Dier (and the others) has made too many very clear individual errors. Dier has twice cost us goals by letting the ball pass him when he should've put his laces through it, it is simply wrong to suggest that we haven't conceded many goals from individual errors.

5. A team with better quality players in attack than defence tends to go one of two ways - The Ossie Way of scoring and conceding five goals a game, or the Mourinho way where the attackers compensate defensively to the detriment of their own output and the scoreline is kept low.

I'm not a fan of Pitt-Brooke at the best of times but I feel this is just extremely lacking in nuance. He's seen the goals for and against tables and decided to run with it and twist the facts to suit his narrative. To me it doesn't pass the eye test at all.

EDIT: I do think the most important thing Mourinho can do defensively is settle on a first choice CB partnership and only rotate that when necessary. If Sanchez and Toby is that partnership, as recent evidence suggests it might be, then don't tinker with it more than necessary.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Eh.

It's well and good pointing at the CBs supposed individual qualities but it ignores a few things.

1. The full backs haven't been reliable so the CBs, Højbjerg and, when he's played, Sissoko have had to do a lot of work covering wide areas.
2. Sanchez was looking diabolically bad when he was in the side earlier this season
3. Toby is categorically not the player he was in 16/17
4. Dier (and the others) has made too many very clear individual errors. Dier has twice cost us goals by letting the ball pass him when he should've put his laces through it, it is simply wrong to suggest that we haven't conceded many goals from individual errors.

5. A team with better quality players in attack than defence tends to go one of two ways - The Ossie Way of scoring and conceding five goals a game, or the Mourinho way where the attackers compensate defensively to the detriment of their own output and the scoreline is kept low.

I'm not a fan of Pitt-Brooke at the best of times but I feel this is just extremely lacking in nuance. He's seen the goals for and against tables and decided to run with it and twist the facts to suit his narrative. To me it doesn't pass the eye test at all.

EDIT: I do think the most important thing Mourinho can do defensively is settle on a first choice CB partnership and only rotate that when necessary. If Sanchez and Toby is that partnership, as recent evidence suggests it might be, then don't tinker with it more than necessary.

I think the gist is that while our defence haven't had the best of times, it would help if our top drawer attack could hit a donkeys arse with a banjo when it counts.

 

[Shadydan]

He brought up a key point though, our forwards don't tend to cop as much flak for missing their chances as opposed to our defenders when they make a mistake.

I'm just thinking about it now, the amount of chances our world class front line have been missing in matches that would have put us in a stronger position has been largely ignored.

 

[al_pacino]

He brought up a key point though, our forwards don't tend to cop as much flak for missing their chances as opposed to our defenders when they make a mistake.

I'm just thinking about it now, the amount of chances our world class front line have been missing in matches that would have put us in a stronger position has been largely ignored.

Always the way through isn't it. Defenders fuck up and get criticised but strikers miss chance after chance but get credit for being in the right place and being brave enough to miss them.

 

[thebenjamin]

He brought up a key point though, our forwards don't tend to cop as much flak for missing their chances as opposed to our defenders when they make a mistake.

I'm just thinking about it now, the amount of chances our world class front line have been missing in matches that would have put us in a stronger position has been largely ignored.

Indeed. All those 1-0s we threw away would have been very different games at 2-0.

 

[Marty]

He brought up a key point though, our forwards don't tend to cop as much flak for missing their chances as opposed to our defenders when they make a mistake.

I'm just thinking about it now, the amount of chances our world class front line have been missing in matches that would have put us in a stronger position has been largely ignored.

That's just the way it is, the further back you are on the pitch the less forgiving people are when you make a mistake. That goes for all levels of the game from U11s and Sunday League to professionals.

It's a nugget of a point, but it doesn't make him right in his assessment of the defence.

 

[spursfan77]

He brought up a key point though, our forwards don't tend to cop as much flak for missing their chances as opposed to our defenders when they make a mistake.

I'm just thinking about it now, the amount of chances our world class front line have been missing in matches that would have put us in a stronger position has been largely ignored.

I have been talking about it for weeks as have a few others. But in the media, not so much.

 

[Shadydan]

That's just the way it is, the further back you are on the pitch the less forgiving people are when you make a mistake. That goes for all levels of the game from U11s and Sunday League to professionals.

It's a nugget of a point, but it doesn't make him right in his assessment of the defence.

That's the way it is, it doesn't make it right or how it should be.

Forwards are meant to be match winners and normally get paid the most to put the ball in the back of the net, in the context of us we have 2 arguably 3 forwards you would class as 'world class' so they should be scrutinised because of their status and really ought to be doing a bit more, I can think of many occasions this season where they maybe could have put us in a position of comfort.

There is a bias regardless in football that caters to forwards over defenders which is imbalanced, defenders and keepers get put under a microscope more because they are seen as the last line of the defence so they need to be perfect so when they concede we look at them like they are at fault but when forwards miss opportunities they aren't blamed and encouraged because they get into goalscoring opportunities in the first place yet when defenders mess up they are often over scrutinised.

 

[teok]

I know this isn't about us but I thought I would post it anyway (couldn't think of the exact thread for it).

I think McCoist is one of the few people that is widely liked (I actually can't really think of anyone else like this). They make a good point that despite playing for sunderland he is considered a "neutral" by everyone in england which probably helps.

No-one did it quite as well, nor as joyously, as Rangers legend Ally McCoist

Ally McCoist was a phenomenal and underrated striker in his time. But first and foremost, he enjoys himself and brings a smile to everyone.

www.football365.com

 

[stov]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56300543

interesting piece on DL

 

[Ionman34]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56300543

interesting piece on DL

That's really gonna trigger a few in here ?