Why are we so slow?

[MattPhilpott]

I think the problem lies slightly with the players and also their positions...

If it was up to me, I would have Eriksen drop back into that midfield pair alongside Bentaleb, I think that is the best shot we have at replicating the Modric/Parker partnership, Eriksen is quick with great vision, dribbling ability and can pick out a pass with ease, whilst Bentaleb can be the engine to track the ball down...

I have been a little more impressed with Townsend in recent weeks, he offers us something different from Chadli and Lamela as he has real pace, I would like to see AT play a few games out at LM more, see if we can get some crosses in...

Think we should then look to buy a second rapid winger such as J-PB, Depay or Kono, who can all cross, shoot and dribble at pace, BUT ALSO have the ability to switch sides and come inside to shoot...

Kane I feel could potentially drop in off the striker as his shooting from distance has improved tenfold, as well as arriving at the edge of the box to finish into the corners.

I then think a young quick striker is required in front of Kane to keep pace with breaking wingers and to have the option to play a through ball between the CB's where the striker will leave them for dead. Someone like Ings, Berahino (maybe) or Zaza perhaps. This striker can then also hold up the play and wait for HK to arrive on the edge of the box...

In conclusion...

Bentaleb/Stambo Eriksen/Mason

Kono/JPB Chadli/Kane Lamela/AT
Depay
Ings/Bera/Zaza

I think this is best shot of recreating that fast, flowing, counter-attacking football that we enjoye under Harry

 

[bceej]

Fatigue would be a big part of it I imagine. There might be a patience aspect to it. It's really only in the final third that we should see the fluid transition phase. All about the right player getting on the ball.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...but-I-never-expected-a-move-to-Liverpool.html

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Fatigue would be a big part of it I imagine. There might be a patience aspect to it. It's really only in the final third that we should see the fluid transition phase. All about the right player getting on the ball.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...but-I-never-expected-a-move-to-Liverpool.html

I am not sure about the fatigue thing, because it's not like we've slowed down recently, as someone said a few posts up it's been the way since AVB.

I am guessing that it's something to do with this 4231 that we persist with. Maybe a 442 or 433 would speed things up. Maybe not, i don't really know i'm no tactics guy so it's just a guess on my part really

 

[HoltbiusMac]

In an attacking sense our fast players don't have brains (Lennon and Townsend) and our smart players don't have exceptional speed (Chadli, Eriksen, Lamela, Kane even Soldado and Adebayor to an extent). Good teams (i.e. teams that expect teams to have players set up in deep banks to defend against them) need somebody who can make that attacking run with the ball with pace to create disorganization and then pick a pass, cross or shot (Hazard or Sanchez are both good at this) or somebody who makes that intelligent run that a ball player can pick out (Pedro or Walcott are both good despite their limitations because of this reason). I think in Eriksen, Lamela and Kane we have players who could pick a runner to create a good opportunity if they had the option but so frequently we don't have anybody making that run. As such we tend to stagnate and teams set up because we're largely predictable. We're just fairly lucky that we've got two players who have very good shots from about 18 yards to rescue us a lot of the time.

 

[nicdic]

I disagree that it's been a problem since AVB, we had exactly the same problem a lot of the time with Redknapp as well. The problem really is that we've still not adapted to playing teams that sit deep against us. Even when we had Modric, Bale, VDV, etc. we still suffered exactly the same problem, an inability to break teams down.

Probably one of the biggest problems has been the lack of a real top quality striker. Since more and more teams have sat back against us, we have never had a top striker, no one who makes good enough movement.

 

[Fluteryid]

Space. The closest we got to bring really fast was under Harry cos he used wingers who stayed wide and that created more space.
Our pitch is tiny and that makes it easier for the opposition to squeeze the play and close us down.

Townsend, Lamela and Chadli make it even smaller by constantly cutting inside, we need a proper winger

 

[shelfmonkey]

Players, simple.

Too many players that are slow in the mind.

 

[Styopa]

I disagree that it's been a problem since AVB, we had exactly the same problem a lot of the time with Redknapp as well. The problem really is that we've still not adapted to playing teams that sit deep against us. Even when we had Modric, Bale, VDV, etc. we still suffered exactly the same problem, an inability to break teams down.

Probably one of the biggest problems has been the lack of a real top quality striker. Since more and more teams have sat back against us, we have never had a top striker, no one who makes good enough movement.

But maybe we were adapting to playing teams that sit deep against us before our best team was dismantled? Looking back at Redknapp's final season 2011-12, when we had signed Adebayor - and he was on form - when VDV and Modric were going into their final seasons and Bale was approaching his peak, we won 10 home games by 2 goals or more and the only very disappointing home results were Norwich (L), Stoke (D), Wolves (D). Contrast that to the following season 2012-13 when Modric and VDV were both gone and Ade was a shadow, we won only 4 games by 2 goals or more, and there were almost twice as many disappointing home results WBA (D), Norwich (D), Wigan (L), Stoke (D), Fulham (L).

 

[sickboy_se]

We don't really have a central midfielder that has good enough feet to distribute long direct balls into space. (Modric, Huddlestone) At least not accurately enough to make it our game plan, would be too risky. So instead they roll short, keep possession and build slowly. And by the time we get around to the penalty area there's no space left to run in because the opposing team is defending with 8 or 9 and they're too close to their own keeper.

Then comes reason number two once we are in that position on the pitch. We don't really have a central midfielder clever enough and with good enough feet to find strikers in the minimal space between defenders and keeper. And/or perhaps strikers that aren't clever enough to time their runs but it looks more like the first option imo. And/or good enough to get themselves into space for a shot from outside (exception would be Eriksen of course and maybe Chadli, Dembele can lose a guy but rarely shoots, Mason shoots but can't loose a guy, Townsend can loose a guy but shoots wide, Lennon can't shoot, Lamela & Bentaleb doutbful.) So not a huge threat from shots outside either which opponents know of course and they'll sink even deeper leaving even less space.

We have a very talented squad. But some are lacking experience and some are lacking quality in direct distribution and our CM's aren't generally threatening enough to lure defenders up on their own.

Or that's my analysis anyway...could be downright stupid but I'm sticking by it.

 

[stemark44]

We don't have enough pace,especially straight down the spine of the team and we don't have players who are brave enough to take the game by the scruff of the neck.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It seems to of been this way since AVB come in, even times under Redknapp we were too slow in our build up at times. But under 3 managers AVB, Sherwood, and now Poch the most frustrating thing for me is how slowly we move the ball.

Why is this?

It doesnt work. Especially at home against supposedly weaker oposition.

On the very few occasions we have actulay picked up the tempo and ran at the oposition with pace and purpose we have actualy looked dangerous. Everton & Chelsea spring to mind.

Its so frustrating.

Have we go too many inept central midfielders who cannot dictate the pace and drive the team forward or does it stem from the back? Or arent our forward players not making the runs?

Or maybe this is how the manager wants us to play?

It's a mental thing. You need quick thinkers. But they are not easy to find.

 

[Jimbo78]

So to fix the obvious problem we need a massive overhaul of our central midfield personnel. Capoue, Paulinhio, Stambouli and Dembele need to be sold. Replace with more suited beter midfielders. Keep Mason and Bentelab

Move Eriksen into central midfield and play with more width.

I would also play 2 up top at home against most sides and certainly not with x2 defensive midfielders.

On Dembele.. He must be one of the most frustrating players I have ever seen. He has all the attributes to be exactly what we need. He on occasion drifts past players but why doesnt he do this enough? He's been here 3 years now and not improved. Sadly its time to say goodbye.

 

[mpickard2087]

It's a mental thing. You need quick thinkers. But they are not easy to find.

Can this not be worked around somewhat by having plans of how you wish to attack, and players having instructions on what you want them to do, what positions you want them to get into? To me, it seems like the players are going out there without detailed tactical instructions, and its a bit of a mess when they are left to work things out for themselves.

 

[mil1lion]

There are a few factors involved. The main issue is not so much the players on the ball but the lack of options to pass to. There are too many occassions when a player picks up the ball and has to look for a run. The movement off the ball simply isn't good enough. We lack the fluency required to play a high tempo game. It's all well and good saying we don't have players like VDV or Modric who were good at passing the ball, but if there are no options to pass to and players have to wait for a pass to present itself then it really doesn't matter who we have in midfield. Even Xavi would struggle to find forward passes at times in this team.

One major problem that we have is the lack of wingers. We now play with inverted wingers which means we get very narrow and teams know how to make it too congested for us. It makes passes a lot tighter and harder to make. Having width to the play doesn't just offer another pass but it also makes a diversion and pulls players away from the central areas. Too many players want to cover the same areas of the pitch. It was a problem when Bale went central too, we sacrificed width on the left by not playing a natural left winger on that side.

I dont think you can relaistically play a high tempo game all the time anyway, I think you have to play with patience especially against stubborn defences. We just need to learn when to switch it up and mix things up a bit more. I don't think it helps that we lack central midfielders who are willing to pass and move to get ahead of the ball and advance on the oppositon penalty box. This is why Mason has come good this season because he is one of only a couple who shows that positive approach from centre midfield. I was expecting Paulinho to be that type of player but he hasn't played too often there under Poch. The rest seem happy to sit behind the play and watch the rest of the attacking players get forward.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The obsession with the new breed of managers to play the Barca/Bielsa/Pep way really grates me. Not every club has a Xavi, Iniesta and Messi to perfect the system......Other clubs may be able to play a variation of it but no one will come close to the Barca of 2008-2011, as they just won't possess 3 of the 4 best players in the world like Barca did at that time....

I've read this a few times on here now, but it's not more true than saying everyone tried to play like ManU 10 years ago.

This country has spent 50 years teaching kids the wrong things, prioritising the wrong skill sets, it finally starts addressing this and we get people complaining that everyone is playing ticky tacka now. It's ridiculous.

Just because technique is finally being recognised as not a poncy effeminate foreign thing doesn't mean the whole league has become a Pep clone philosophy. Spurs were playing technical, possession football in the early eighties, and in the sixties.

Finally we are getting coaches that coach and vary their tactics, meaning other coaches have to think more about their tactics and innovate and so on. It's not every fucking team playing 442, gung ho/bus park, lottery bullshit.

Nobody is playing like Barca. But we have Rodgers changing shapes every week, LVG changing shapes three times a game, coaches like Dyche out thinking us at home, Koeman's pragmatism getting Southampton into new territory, even Wenger's learning to park a bus, and Allardyce is still playing a unit up top etc etc.

It's so much more interesting and better for English football now than a few years ago.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Can this not be worked around somewhat by having plans of how you wish to attack, and players having instructions on what you want them to do, what positions you want them to get into? To me, it seems like the players are going out there without detailed tactical instructions, and its a bit of a mess when they are left to work things out for themselves.

I think it can to a degree, but you can't work miracles, especially if some players are pretty thick or slow cognitively.

 

[WestBelfast Spurs]

our pitch its not as big as the rest, so we have to be careful not to run it out of play hence slow play

 

[dudu]

I disagree that it's been a problem since AVB, we had exactly the same problem a lot of the time with Redknapp as well. The problem really is that we've still not adapted to playing teams that sit deep against us. Even when we had Modric, Bale, VDV, etc. we still suffered exactly the same problem, an inability to break teams down.

Probably one of the biggest problems has been the lack of a real top quality striker. Since more and more teams have sat back against us, we have never had a top striker, no one who makes good enough movement.

agree with all of this,

 

[St José Dominguez]

As others said we had exactly the same problem even when we had Modric in the team.
Perhaps it's just the way it is when at home and a team sit back. You keep the ball hoping for an opening. If there is a hugely congested final third you're talking Barca level incisive passing at times to get through it.
Personally one of the issues I feel that hinders us is if we play with inverted wingers we need the full backs to be offering intelligent play. Something which isn't there yet.
People have said the answer is Schneiderlin, I guarantee we'd have the same issue when teams sit back.
I'm not a fan of sideway possession based play that Capoue or Dembele exhibit but at the same time I'm not a fan of fast passing, firing it into a guy with three players around him or completely lose possession of Mason.
In ideal world I want a mix. Maintain and keep the ball looking for angles and openings then move it incisively.

 

[NEVILLEB]

It's a few things isn't it.

- Players who want to dwell on the ball (Dembele)
- Poor touch
- A lack of good team positional awareness
- No play maker in midfield (Carrick, Modric, etc)

I think we are still looking for a good leader/captain who will set the standard. Someone like Roy Keane who demands a quick tempo and one touch passing.