Why can no-one defend anymore?

[Sevens]

Watching Real Madrid vs Liverpool last night Ramos made a superb tackle cleanly winning the ball. Or at least it would have been perceived like that 5 years ago. Last night? Free kick to Liverpool and a booking to Ramos.

I think another reason why defences appear to be weaker than before is because defenders aren't allowed to defend like they used to.

 

[slartibartfast]

OMG. Anyone see Arsenals defending against ManU for 2nd goal?
Absolute schoolboy piss poor brain dead defending.
We're chasing a goal, just the 1, so let's all push up into their half and if we lose the ball.... Oh. Didnt see that coming.
Tragic lol but seriously, wtf are these supposed professional defenders thinking? F all by the look of it.
5min later they did it again

 

[Reece]

Watching Real Madrid vs Liverpool last night Ramos made a superb tackle cleanly winning the ball. Or at least it would have been perceived like that 5 years ago. Last night? Free kick to Liverpool and a booking to Ramos.

I think another reason why defences appear to be weaker than before is because defenders aren't allowed to defend like they used to.

This is a great insight in my opinion. Although good defences are built on great positioning, last ditch tackles are still required at times. The reduction in the amount of quality, timed, sliding tackles really grind my gears. I get that the pricks who aren't good at it need to be punished, but come on, don't completely eliminate the sliding challenge.

 

[slartibartfast]

Well, months down the line since last post and still the same mistakes from almost every single team in the division.
Playing tiply tappy football in the last third around and in their own goal area when the opposition have pushed up so any mistakes ends up being picked out the back of the net instead of just clearing their lines or putting it out for a throw or a corner.
It truly is mind boggling to watch.
Just saw MOTD and jesus christ some truly calamitous fk ups from more than half the teams shown.
Obsession with possession has gone too far.
Thats the problem imo.

Obsession with possession. The smell of a man lol.
Or should I say, the smell of defensive cock up about to unfold.

 

[danielneeds]

Two big reasons - Defenders can't rough up and intimate attackers the way they could 15, 20, 30 years ago.

And the current vague offside rule makes moving up as a defensive unit much harder.

 

[JAYSTAR]

It's ball watching IMO.

The number of times players have apparently no idea an attacker or late arriving midfielder is in acres of space behind them, is just shocking.

Walker and Kaboul were both particularly bad at watching the ball and paying no attention to the movement of the opposition players in the box behind them, so we've witnessed countless goals with no last ditch tackle going in or any kind of block being offered because defenders are not reading the play and are not even close enough to the attacker to try and stop them. School boy stuff.

That and the fact that teams are playing all out attack with no defensive midfielder.

Chelsea have matic. Citeh have fernandinho. Arsenal have... Well anyway, you get the point.

 

[Spurger King]

There have been some good points made in this thread that I'm sure are valid (I certainly agree with the notion that football is increasingly becoming a contact-free sport, which obviously causes problems for defenders, and the often ambiguous offside rule).

I'm just wondering if there's also a lack of old-fashioned familiarity. So many clubs (especially us) are constantly changing their back four through buying and selling, and that's bound to cause problems for establishing a well-drilled defence. Sure, teams train regularly and have loads of coaching to help the players understand how to play as a unit, but I've thought for a long time that familiarity is incredibly important for defenders (and keepers). Pains me to say it, but a great example would be George Graham's Arsenal defence, with Adams, Dixon, Piltdown Man, Seaman, and the other one. All good players, but what made them formidable was the understanding they had with one another, established and strengthened over several years.

How often have we seen bickering between our defenders after conceding a sloppy goal? Kaboul and Vertonghen rarely seemed to be on the same page, and now we switch between Fazio and Dier. I honestly think that if you picked and stuck with any back four from our club, made up of a RB, a LB, a left-sided CB, and a right-sided CB, with a consistent keeper behind them, they'd develop an understanding that no amount of coaching would be able to surpass.

Of course it also helps to have a leader at the back. I always felt confident when Ledley was playing because he ran the back four, and was talented enough to command respect from his team mates.

 

[whitesocks]

Funnily enough my biggest complaint about our CBs is lack of goals.
City's defence at set pieces was poor but we could not score despite quite a few corners.
It was the nil part of the score that lost us the game.

Vertongen used to be dangerous - he showed that in the WC.
Dier also is no ordinary boy. He showed us he can score with ease, in the air or on the ground. But we seemed to have trained that out of him.

These are the 2 we need to stick with, but as well as all the drilling,
we need to allow them the freedom to express themselves at times.
We have 2 dedicated sitting midfielders - it shouldn't be hard to fill in any gaps.

 

[aliyid]

Funnily enough my biggest complaint about our CBs is lack of goals.

I often think this is part of the problem...

Defenders are too often rated by how effective they are going forward rather than how effective they are at the back. Always frustrated me when Jolean Lescott was getting rave reviews any time he scored a goal even if he had a shocker at the back.

Verts can be the same, out of position and lapses in concentration at the back yet people forgive him that as he is good on the ball going forward.

Very few defenders nowadays like Ledley King who could read the buildup and know exactly where and how to make an interception.

 

[whitesocks]

I often think this is part of the problem...

Defenders are too often rated by how effective they are going forward rather than how effective they are at the back. Always frustrated me when Jolean Lescott was getting rave reviews any time he scored a goal even if he had a shocker at the back.

Verts can be the same, out of position and lapses in concentration at the back yet people forgive him that as he is good on the ball going forward.

Very few defenders nowadays like Ledley King who could read the buildup and know exactly where and how to make an interception.

But Ledley would regularly score too...

We are wasting Vertongen imo - he has the skill to take the ball all the way as he did at Utd a couple of years ago. When was the last time we saw his superman impression?

 

[aliyid]

But Ledley would regularly score too...

We are wasting Vertongen imo - he has the skill to take the ball all the way as he did at Utd a couple of years ago. When was the last time we saw his superman impression?

Not really... 14 seasons in the prem (268 games) he scored 10 goals

Verts can be great when his mind is on the game just hope we can keep him comitted and focused next season.

 

[chinaman]

Maybe the attackers are too good to be stopped?

 

[slartibartfast]

Maybe the attackers are too good to be stopped?

Football has changed granted but thats not the reason behind some of the stupidity were seeing.
To be honest I think almost ever point mentioned in this thread is valid.
The game has changed.
The offside rule doesn't help.
Fullbacks are played becuse of their attacking ability not their defensive.
They don't give a shit about stopping crosses.
Zone'll (??? lol) marking makes everyone look an arse. Truly fkin stupid idea imo.
Players ball watch far too much.
Possesion is given too high a priority when players should be clearing the ball.

Think thats all thats wrong lol.

 

[whitesocks]

Not really... 14 seasons in the prem (268 games) he scored 10 goals

Memories can play tricks, but to be fair King only had 1 leg for 6 seasons.
Injury free he was scoring a couple or 3 each season.
Scoring wasn't Dawson's strong point but he used to get a couple a season before he got AVBed.

Vertonghen scored 10 for Ajax in his last season and 6 for us in his first season.
Now he gets one.
If we still have the ambition to push the top 4 (do we?) then everyone has to weigh in with a few, especially our experienced internationals.

 

[SteveH]

Who defends these days?

 

[slartibartfast]

Who defends these days?

Chelsea.
Thats it.

 

[slartibartfast]

Anyone see Southamptons school boy defending against Chelsea. All 10 outfield players run into the box and about 8 not actually doing anything. Not marking anyone. Not even close to a Chelsea player. Looked like they were marking each other actually.
Wondered what peoples thoughts are on defending these days.
Was surprised to see how long ago this thread was discussing it because in general it doesn't seem to have improved at all, if anything its getting worse.
Obviously we're doing really well but even we still have occasions where you think wtf? (Semi final lol).

 

[Shadydan]

Who defends these days?

We do

 

[Lilbaz]

Anyone see Southamptons school boy defending against Chelsea. All 10 outfield players run into the box and about 8 not actually doing anything. Not marking anyone. Not even close to a Chelsea player. Looked like they were marking each other actually.
Wondered what peoples thoughts are on defending these days.
Was surprised to see how long ago this thread was discussing it because in general it doesn't seem to have improved at all, if anything its getting worse.
Obviously we're doing really well but even we still have occasions where you think wtf? (Semi final lol).

Teams want defenders who can play football these days. Not big tough bastards who bully the opposition and hoof it upfield.
The high press from the better teams also mean that defenders are exposed.

 

[Japhet]

Defenders daren't touch attackers these days. Penalties are given for the slightest touch and diving has become an accepted part of the game. I hate it.