Smear campaign against Baddiel

MattyP · Oct 8, 2013

rich75 said:
They're not saying that either :

Ch Supt Johnson told Radio 5 Live that the situation would be deemed more serious if opposition fans used “Yid” in an abusive way.
“There’s a slight difference when we do get opposing fans doing it,” he said.
“They’re doing it in terms of causing offence. There is a balance to be struck around who it is aimed at and who finds it insulting.”

And yet we were threatened with arrest in the week leading up to the game against West Ham, or being cautioned for using the word yid.

But, you've been arguing for the complete abolition of the use of the word, saying that context is irrelevant, whilst quoting a copper who says that context is relevant : )

Rocksuperstar · Oct 8, 2013

jambreck said:
No. That's what you're suggesting.

The police are now suggesting that the word is, in and of itself and regardless of context, offensive.

I've not seen them say that - i've only seen rewording of the same warning they've been giving out since day 1 - that, if used in a manner that could cause offence or disturb the peace, then it is an offence under s5 PoA and you risk being arrested. Their stance doesn't appear to have changed, else there would've been way, waaay more arrests on Sunday.

jimtheyid · Oct 8, 2013

After speaking to quite a few Jewish Spurs fans over the past few days I have decided to stop chanting the Y word. I will also PM A&C to try and remove from my username.

Have to be honest, I didn't realise quite how u comfortable it makes some of our fans.

jimtheyid · Oct 8, 2013

I realise that I have changed my tune somewhat.

MattyP · Oct 8, 2013

jimtheyid said:
After speaking to quite a few Jewish Spurs fans over the past few days I have decided to stop chanting the Y word. I will also PM A&C to try and remove from my username.

Have to be honest, I didn't realise quite how u comfortable it makes some of our fans.

Care to elaborate mate?

riggi · Oct 8, 2013

Your also old bill!

jimtheyid · Oct 8, 2013

MattyP said:
Care to elaborate mate?

When the Y word was first promoted by Baddiel. I (like most)disagreed completely and thought it was a fight that didn't need to be won.

However, knowing now that it's use makes SOME of our Jewish fans deeply uncomfortable, I would not want to continue to use it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think our fans should be castigated for choosing to do so. But in my mind, I thought that all of our Jewish following we're happy with the way the term had been appropriated... Surely if we know they are not, then we should maybe rethink? I mean, there are plenty of other ways to support the team.

It's just a personal choice, I certainly wouldn't want to come across as self righteous and preachy as Baddeil.

jimtheyid · Oct 8, 2013

riggi said:
Your also old bill!

Like I said, it's a personal choice, nothing to do with my occupation . I chanted with the rest in block 32 on Sunday.

riggi · Oct 8, 2013

jimtheyid said:
Like I said, it's a personal choice, nothing to do with my occupation . I chanted with the rest in block 32 on Sunday.

Only rimming you mate (is that the word?). Whats the feeling at the station?

MattyP · Oct 8, 2013

jimtheyid said:
When the Y word was first promoted by Baddiel. I (like most)disagreed completely and thought it was a fight that didn't need to be won.

However, knowing now that it's use makes SOME of our Jewish fans deeply uncomfortable, I would not want to continue to use it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think our fans should be castigated for choosing to do so. But in my mind, I thought that all of our Jewish following we're happy with the way the term had been appropriated... Surely if we know they are not, then we should maybe rethink? I mean, there are plenty of other ways to support the team.

It's just a personal choice, I certainly wouldn't want to come across as self righteous and preachy as Baddeil.

Sorry, in the interest of understanding, how / in what way does it make them feel deeply uncomfortable. I ask, not to increase the uncomfortabless, but to better understand. The Jewish spurs fans I know don't feel uncomfortable about it, the Jewish non Spurs fans I know have an affinity towards us, so I'm keen to understand where/what causes the uncomfort?

Dov67 · Oct 8, 2013

rich75 said:
I've done nothing of the sort.

I've said it's a word that's widely considered to be offensive. It is.

I've also said more times that I care to remember that what a bunch of Spurs fans think about it is besides the point.

Stop singing it and there is no grey area for others to sing it at us. That is the entire point.

Grey areas? What grey areas are there in

"Spurs are on their way to Auscwitz" or

"Hitlers coming for you", or

"I never felt more like gassing a Jew than when tottenham win and west ham/chelsea/arsenal lose", or

"We've got fabregas, tottenham are scared of gas"

There's no ambiguity here, certainly no grey areas as you call them.

The law is quite sufficient to prosecute and convict whether spurs chant yid army or whether we don't.

As I said the police the clubs and FA could have taken a stance and done more about this any time since the 70's.

Ridiculous, stupid thing to say.

riggi · Oct 8, 2013

I think some of us just don't get that people are offended by it. Why etc doesn't matter, people are offended, it starts to go into the category of 'your opinion is wrong'. That said, because it offends a number, doesn't mean it should be banned. If this was such an issue then the club would of been receiving complaints for years and we would of been seeing this issue earlier. Maybe we should look into changing the chant, keep the Jewish identity but use a different word. Ala Ajax...

riggi · Oct 8, 2013

They will sing it more knowing we cant sing it.

scat1620 · Oct 8, 2013

Misfit said:
Of course, that's plainly not true. As it has been since this all began it's used as a cover for a minority of complete twonks to get all their C18, NF or EDF sympathies out in the open.

I'm more of an Eon man myself, those EDF types are so mainstream and aren't properly fighting the cause. Wouldn't go as far as hanging with those extremist NPower nutters though, they're too hardcore even for me. Splitters!!

Shea · Oct 8, 2013

spud said:
Yet you still feel qualified to enter the 'debate'. This is symptomatic of the whole episode: people with zero or limited knowledge jumping on a PC bandwagon.

I only put that it so as not to be stating my opinion as fact - because my opinion of whether or not it is acceptable for us to use it is dependant on the factor of whether or not the word in itself is fundamentally offensive or only offensive due to context (in which case using it in the context we do would not be offensive unlike the N word)

Like I said if you bothered to read the entirety of my post the history and nature of the word itself is move important than the context in which we decide to use it

I said IF as the video clip suggests the history of the word is similar to that of the N word in regards to black then it is not acceptable for us to use it - I can't see an argument to suggest otherwise

I also said if however this is not the case and they are blowing up the offensive meaning behind the word and its history for the sake of political correctness then they can fuck off

You don't seem to have read my post any further than the line you quoted

jambreck · Oct 8, 2013

riggi said:
Only rimming you mate (is that the word?). Whats the feeling at the station?

I sincerely hope that it isn't the word!!!!

I'm guessing that the word you want is actually "ribbing".

"Rimming" is altogether different. Look it up.

riggi · Oct 8, 2013

jambreck said:
I sincerely hope that it isn't the word!!!!

I'm guessing that the word you want is actually "ribbing".

"Rimming" is altogether different. Look it up.

Ha Jim knows what I meant

MattyP · Oct 8, 2013

riggi said:
I think some of us just don't get that people are offended by it. Why etc doesn't matter, people are offended, it starts to go into the category of 'your opinion is wrong'. That said, because it offends a number, doesn't mean it should be banned. If this was such an issue then the club would of been receiving complaints for years and we would of been seeing this issue earlier. Maybe we should look into changing the chant, keep the Jewish identity but use a different word. Ala Ajax...

I disagree. Having a reasoned conversation about why certain members of the spurs family find it offensive is a hugely more beneficial way of eventually eradicating its use. I chant it because, along with many others, I associate it with supporting Tottenham, of being part of a Tottenham family. If some of that family are offended by my actions, I'd like to better understand why.

I'd much rather have an educated, reasoned conversation that lead to a change in behaviour, than having some twat tell me to stop (Baddiel) or be threatened with arrest if I persisted.

AW? · Oct 8, 2013

I was shouting it out in Munich at the beer fest sunday night and nobody seemed to mind.

riggi · Oct 8, 2013

MattyP said:
I disagree. Having a reasoned conversation about why certain members of the spurs family find it offensive is a hugely more beneficial way of eventually eradicating its use. I chant it because, along with many others, I associate it with supporting Tottenham, of being part of a Tottenham family. If some of that family are offended by my actions, I'd like to better understand why.

I'd much rather have an educated, reasoned conversation that lead to a change in behaviour, than having some twat tell me to stop (Baddiel) or be threatened with arrest if I persisted.

Yes I agree but what about those who aren't supporters. Some people wont care why we're using it, they just see big bald skinhead football fans, shouting it out with their arm in the air. I do think something needs to be done with in the club though. What was the result of the season ticket survey?

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