A little known Hillsborough fact: Colin Andrew Sefton

jambreck · Apr 14, 2014

Shanks said:
In my opinion, it doesn't matter much that 1 fan was a Spurs fan.

It was a tragedy, and for those in Liverpool (blue or red), many families were effected by it. So to speak, this is Liverpool's tragedy, not anyone else's - not sure if that makes sense.

I wouldn't want Spurs or anyone to make so much fuss about there being 1 spurs fan - I relate this to a typical Facebook post claiming attention, let it be, mourn the loss, celebrate the lives of those lost, doesn't really matter what team they supported.

I can't agree.

I think those of us alive today owe it to those who died to know the truth about them and to tell the truth about them. It can't hurt and isn't an onerous thing to do to specify that one of the 96 was a Spurs fan.

As I said before, though, if the family would rather let it lie, then that's what really matters.

UncleBuck · Apr 14, 2014

One of the lads in the year above me at school at the time died there, he was only 16.
Just completely insane when you think about it now....

Metalhead · Apr 14, 2014

UncleBuck said:
One of the lads in the year above me at school at the time died there, he was only 16.
Just completely insane when you think about it now....

Death at any age is sad but at 16....well it's just incomprehensible.

nedley · Apr 14, 2014

Can anybody confirm the claim that there were a section of Spurs fans disrupting the minutes silence yesterday?

jambreck · Apr 14, 2014

nedley said:
Can anybody confirm the claim that there were a section of Spurs fans disrupting the minutes silence yesterday?

Apparently, there were some Spurs fans down in the concourses still drinking and singing, unaware that the minute's silence was being held around the pitch at that time.

Wirral Spurs · Apr 14, 2014

Shanks said:
In my opinion, it doesn't matter much that 1 fan was a Spurs fan.

It was a tragedy, and for those in Liverpool (blue or red), many families were effected by it. So to speak, this is Liverpool's tragedy, not anyone else's - not sure if that makes sense.

I wouldn't want Spurs or anyone to make so much fuss about there being 1 spurs fan - I relate this to a typical Facebook post claiming attention, let it be, mourn the loss, celebrate the lives of those lost, doesn't really matter what team they supported.

Can't think of anything worse than being primarily remembered as a fan of someone else though.

Shanks · Apr 14, 2014

Wirral Spurs said:
Can't think of anything worse than being primarily remembered as a fan of someone else though.

Yeah I get that, and his friends and family will know.

Just not sure it's right for the club to be recognised as losing one of its fans in this tragedy... not sure if I make sense in that, it's been 25 years and to now come out and say one of ours, in like some sympathy move, will look kinda desperate..

Just me though, sad thing, I remember watching it on TV as a kid.

Metalhead · Apr 14, 2014

Shanks said:
Yeah I get that, and his friends and family will know.

Just not sure it's right for the club to be recognised as losing one of its fans in this tragedy... not sure if I make sense in that, it's been 25 years and to now come out and say one of ours, in like some sympathy move, will look kinda desperate..

Just me though, sad thing, I remember watching it on TV as a kid.

Me too Shanks. I must have been about 15. I couldn't really take it in.

Shanks · Apr 14, 2014

Metalhead said:
Me too Shanks. I must have been about 15. I couldn't really take it in.

I was 11 at the time, and just recall it being surreal, seeing it on TV.
The only other time in my life I ever felt that kind of surreal, was watching the 9/11 plane hit the 2nd tower on TV.

Not comparing the both to each other, but just that surreal feeling, of 'is this actually happening on my TV' kinda feeling.

leffe186 · Apr 14, 2014

Shanks said:
Yeah I get that, and his friends and family will know.

Just not sure it's right for the club to be recognised as losing one of its fans in this tragedy... not sure if I make sense in that, it's been 25 years and to now come out and say one of ours, in like some sympathy move, will look kinda desperate..

Just me though, sad thing, I remember watching it on TV as a kid.

I agree in a sense, although I think a great opportunity has been, and is being, missed. There are many fans of clubs, new and old, who genuinely (but wrongly IMO) resent some aspects of the memorialization of Hillsborough. I've seen Ibrox and Valley Parade cited repeatedly over the years as comparable tragedies that don't receive the same "publicity". I think some of this derives from a feeling that Liverpool FC somehow exploits the tragedy for self-aggrandisement, and motivation. I hasten to add that this is not my feeling.

My point is that including a Spurs scarf would not be a case of looking for sympathy for us. I would like to think that Hillsborough memorials are not "looking for sympathy" for Liverpool. Including a Spurs scarf would be a moving and effective way to remind us that those who died could have been anyone. Any follower of any top club at the time. We all have our stories from the 80s - our most prominent one is probably Wolves '81, although there are others. I think it wouldn't do any harm to remind all football fans of that fact, and I include Liverpool fans in that.

Metalhead · Apr 14, 2014

Shanks said:
I was 11 at the time, and just recall it being surreal, seeing it on TV.
The only other time in my life I ever felt that kind of surreal, was watching the 9/11 plane hit the 2nd tower on TV.

Not comparing the both to each other, but just that surreal feeling, of 'is this actually happening on my TV' kinda feeling.

Absolutely.

Wirral Spurs · Apr 14, 2014

Shanks said:
Yeah I get that, and his friends and family will know.

Just not sure it's right for the club to be recognised as losing one of its fans in this tragedy... not sure if I make sense in that, it's been 25 years and to now come out and say one of ours, in like some sympathy move, will look kinda desperate..

Just me though, sad thing, I remember watching it on TV as a kid.

No I get that. I remember playing on the pitches next to Enfield Stadium as it all unfolded. I live on Merseyside now, one of our friends lost a brother in it, very sad although some complex emotions have come out in the last 25 years. I guess it is difficult to greave privately when the world is marking the occasion every year.

mattyspurs · Apr 14, 2014

Wirral Spurs said:
No I get that. I remember playing on the pitches next to Enfield Stadium as it all unfolded. I live on Merseyside now, one of our friends lost a brother in it, very sad although some complex emotions have come out in the last 25 years. I guess it is difficult to greave privately when the world is marking the occasion every year.

I think thats the problem. Until they get answers and closure, the world will always be marking the occasion every year.

I'm like you, I live up here, well Preston, but my business was in Skem and I have lots of friends from Liverpool and everyone still feels it, and they always will. but until there is closure none of them seem like they are able to move on.

tiger666 · Apr 15, 2014

He's recognised as a Spurs fan on the BBC memorial article today.

Far left column, 3rd from bottom.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26765007

Gassin's finest · Apr 15, 2014

I think splitting hairs about who supported who on the day is irrelevant. And it's important to remember it.

96 people died unnecessarily from simple stupidity, and 25 years on its still a lesson. A lesson on how to police large events, on how to ensure safety, on being mindful of each other and having respect for the person next to you... regardless of sporting allegiance, background, race, whatever... and to prevent that ever happening again. It's not just a Liverpool love in, it's significant for the whole game as a spectator sport.

Bus-Conductor · Apr 15, 2014

leffe186 said:
I agree in a sense, although I think a great opportunity has been, and is being, missed. There are many fans of clubs, new and old, who genuinely (but wrongly IMO) resent some aspects of the memorialization of Hillsborough. I've seen Ibrox and Valley Parade cited repeatedly over the years as comparable tragedies that don't receive the same "publicity". I think some of this derives from a feeling that Liverpool FC somehow exploits the tragedy for self-aggrandisement, and motivation. I hasten to add that this is not my feeling.

My point is that including a Spurs scarf would not be a case of looking for sympathy for us. I would like to think that Hillsborough memorials are not "looking for sympathy" for Liverpool. Including a Spurs scarf would be a moving and effective way to remind us that those who died could have been anyone. Any follower of any top club at the time. We all have our stories from the 80s - our most prominent one is probably Wolves '81, although there are others. I think it wouldn't do any harm to remind all football fans of that fact, and I include Liverpool fans in that.

I think the difference with hillsborough is the cause and subsequent cover up and conspiracy and huge miscarriage of justice.

But why Liverpool get the big memorial occasions, 7 min past kick off etc and Bradford get nothing similar does smack of some kind of selective prioritising of mourning by the authorities doesn't it, based on the size/stature of the club.

JollyHappy · Apr 15, 2014

Still shudder at the thought of what would have happened in 1981 if the fences had been up. I still don't know why more is made of that as well in all the inquests as it was virtually a repeat save for the fences!

I was at the other end (with the Wolves fans by the way)

nipponyid · Apr 15, 2014

JollyHappy said:
Still shudder at the thought of what would have happened in 1981 if the fences had been up. I still don't know why more is made of that as well in all the inquests as it was virtually a repeat save for the fences!

I was at the other end (with the Wolves fans by the way)

indeed..luckily we was in the seats to the right of LL end that day!

allatsea · Apr 15, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
I think the difference with hillsborough is the cause and subsequent cover up and conspiracy and huge miscarriage of justice.

But why Liverpool get the big memorial occasions, 7 min past kick off etc and Bradford get nothing similar does smack of some kind of selective prioritising of mourning by the authorities doesn't it, based on the size/stature of the club.

And Heysal is quietly forgotten although that also involved Liverpool fans.

riggi · Apr 15, 2014

West ham bloke at work reakons it was all the fans fault. I don't know enough about it really.

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