A little known Hillsborough fact: Colin Andrew Sefton

[jonathanhotspur]

That's completely different, though. A bunch of guys singing in concourses because they're oblivious to what's going on in the stands.

Chelsea fans, by contrast, knowingly boo and chant during the minute's silence for Hillsborough even when they're at their seats - as they did at Wembley a couple of years back.

Anyone know why they do it?

Maybe it's because of Benitez? Luis Garcia's "ghost goal" against them in the CL semi final in 2005?

 

[Toela65]

Since this weekend sees the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster, a special mention for Colin Andrew Sefton - a 23 year old Spurs fan from Skelmersdale who was one of the 96 who tragically died that day and who was at the game because he was the only one among his group of friends (most of whom were Liverpool fans) who had a car.

RIP to him and to the other 95.

Always annoys me slightly that the media, whether through laziness or ignorance, always talk about the 96 Liverpool fans who died. Or even the FA, who have set aside 96 seats for this weekend's semi finals and put 96 Liverpool scarves on them.

It's disrespectful to his memory.

Thanks for this. Very informative as I didn't know & all the more so as I'm from Skelmersdale myself. Moved out here from Toxteth when I was 6 & been here ever since.

Might ask around to see if he still has family or even friends in Skem as I work at the local paper for Skem and ormskirk.

 

[Toela65]

Maybe it's because of Benitez? Luis Garcia's "ghost goal" against them in the CL semi final in 2005?

I was told by some more respectful CFC fans that it is seen by some of their fans (the type who still wish it was the early 80s and Green St and all that nonsense, and urm, don't mind the EDL shall we say) now as a badge of honour, the thing to be done, they like it and see it as their "duty". They're, unbelievably I'm told, proud of it and proud to do it. They seem to see it as some form of protest for something or other.

Thankfully, its a small, but very loud and vocal, minority.

I know I haven't explained that very well but I know exactly why they do it, and was expecting it today and none of us were in the slightest bit surprised, but just can't find the right words to describe why they do it other than they enjoy it, their proud of it & they don't think its a bad thing to do or makes them look bad.

BTW, RE the Spurs fan in the 96, I think its down to pure and simple ignorance of him being a Spurs fan. I had no idea and I go to all the memorials. I even wonder if the recent powers that be at LFC even know, coz there's no way if they did they wouldn't have pointed it out at least once surely?!

EDIT - This new info has really shook me up. Why aren't the Club or the families groups or someone at least paying lip service to the fact that not all the 96 were Liverpool fans? I'm not happy about this I'm going to look into it and make svme enquiries with Spirit of Shankly & the Supporters Committee.

 

[mpickard2087]

That's completely different, though. A bunch of guys singing in concourses because they're oblivious to what's going on in the stands.

Chelsea fans, by contrast, knowingly boo and chant during the minute's silence for Hillsborough even when they're at their seats - as they did at Wembley a couple of years back.

Anyone know why they do it?

It is different, I don't think it was one of our fans' finest moments though.

 

[jambreck]

I was told by some more respectful CFC fans that it is seen by some of their fans (the type who still wish it was the early 80s and Green St and all that nonsense, and urm, don't mind the EDL shall we say) now as a badge of honour, the thing to be done, they like it and see it as their "duty". They're, unbelievably I'm told, proud of it and proud to do it. They seem to see it as some form of protest for something or other.

Thankfully, its a small, but very loud and vocal, minority.

I know I haven't explained that very well but I know exactly why they do it, and was expecting it today and none of us were in the slightest bit surprised, but just can't find the right words to describe why they do it other than they enjoy it, their proud of it & they don't think its a bad thing to do or makes them look bad.

It's utterly mindless. I really can't understand how anyone who saw those harrowing scenes live (or years later) on TV could ever disrespect the memory of those who died and the friends and family that they left behind. Especially as, painfully slowly, the truth has gradually been revealed. This steps way over the line, beyond mere footballing rivalry.

BTW, RE the Spurs fan in the 96, I think its down to pure and simple ignorance of him being a Spurs fan. I had no idea and I go to all the memorials. I even wonder if the recent powers that be at LFC even know, coz there's no way if they did they wouldn't have pointed it out at least once surely?!

EDIT - This new info has really shook me up. Why aren't the Club or the families groups or someone at least paying lip service to the fact that not all the 96 were Liverpool fans? I'm not happy about this I'm going to look into it and make svme enquiries with Spirit of Shankly & the Supporters Committee.

I'm pretty sure that Colin Andrew Sefton's Mum was heavily involved in one the Hillsborough families' support groups before she died. So others involved will also know. But the media don't. Either that or else they're too lazy to be more specific and accurate.

Anyway, since Colin Andrew Sefton was obviously mates with loads of Liverpool fans and since he attended the game with them, I think it would have been a really nice touch to have had both a Spurs and a Liverpool scarf on one of the seats at Wembley this weekend.

 

[Metalhead]

Love that guy, my favourite spurs player of all time

Hell of a player. The word 'legend' is overused but he certainly deserves that title IMO.

 

[mattyspurs]

I was told by some more respectful CFC fans that it is seen by some of their fans (the type who still wish it was the early 80s and Green St and all that nonsense, and urm, don't mind the EDL shall we say) now as a badge of honour, the thing to be done, they like it and see it as their "duty". They're, unbelievably I'm told, proud of it and proud to do it. They seem to see it as some form of protest for something or other.

Thankfully, its a small, but very loud and vocal, minority.

I know I haven't explained that very well but I know exactly why they do it, and was expecting it today and none of us were in the slightest bit surprised, but just can't find the right words to describe why they do it other than they enjoy it, their proud of it & they don't think its a bad thing to do or makes them look bad.

BTW, RE the Spurs fan in the 96, I think its down to pure and simple ignorance of him being a Spurs fan. I had no idea and I go to all the memorials. I even wonder if the recent powers that be at LFC even know, coz there's no way if they did they wouldn't have pointed it out at least once surely?!

EDIT - This new info has really shook me up. Why aren't the Club or the families groups or someone at least paying lip service to the fact that not all the 96 were Liverpool fans? I'm not happy about this I'm going to look into it and make svme enquiries with Spirit of Shankly & the Supporters Committee.

Even more so as I was under the impression that Kenny Dalgleish attended each and every funeral?

 

[TheChosenOne]

Yes....and i was there and got crushed that day in that same middle pen....we had a very lucky escape, i will never forget the relief when the old bill opened the front gate for us....

My mates and myself were tucked away in the strange corner between Leppings Lane and the North Stand so although we were safe from crushing up there we could see the situation develop.

 

[Toela65]

I was told by some more respectful CFC fans that it is seen by some of their fans (the type who still wish it was the early 80s and Green St and all that nonsense, and urm, don't mind the EDL shall we say) now as a badge of honour, the thing to be done, they like it and see it as their "duty". They're, unbelievably I'm told, proud of it and proud to do it. They seem to see it as some form of protest for something or other.

Thankfully, its a small, but very loud and vocal, minority.

I know I haven't explained that very well but I know exactly why they do it, and was expecting it today and none of us were in the slightest bit surprised, but just can't find the right words to describe why they do it other than they enjoy it, their proud of it & they don't think its a bad thing to do or makes them look bad.

BTW, RE the Spurs fan in the 96, I think its down to pure and simple ignorance of him being a Spurs fan. I had no idea and I go to all the memorials. I even wonder if the recent powers that be at LFC even know, coz there's no way if they did they wouldn't have pointed it out at least once surely?!

EDIT - This new info has really shook me up. Why aren't the Club or the families groups or someone at least paying lip service to the fact that not all the 96 were Liverpool fans? I'm not happy about this I'm going to look into it and make svme enquiries with Spirit of Shankly & the Supporters Committee.

Had a quick convo with someone high up in Spirit of Shankly involved with doing the joint banner with your Supporters Trust for the Spurs supporter who sadly died that was displayed at Anfield & he said he'll raise it with the Union to be looked into which means the club will be asked about it & whether it needs addressing in some way.

Dunno how they would do this but my best guess would be, in the future, highlighting not all 96 were Liverpool Supporters, or, as Jay said, making sure everything officially from the Club media/marketing/PR Depts end, and everything from the Liverpool Echo papers end, no longer commonly refers to the victims as "the 96 Liverpool fans who lost their lives at Hillsboro" like, for E.G, it was said then on M0TD.

Maybe they'll just refer to them as the "96 football fans who lost their lives" for example Jay said but see if we get owt back from Club anyway (they may say it has to be raised through the 'official Supporters committee' now though and not Spirit of Shankly Supporters Union.

 

[jambreck]

Had a quick convo with someone high up in Spirit of Shankly involved wo heith doing the joint banner with your Supporters Trust for the Spurs supporter who sadly died that was displayed at the game & he said he'll raise it with the Union to be looked into which means the club will be asked about it & whether it needs addressing in some way.

Dunno how they would do this but my best guess would be, in the future, highlighting not all 96 were Liverpool Supporters, or, as Jay said, making sure everything officially from the Club media/marketing/PR Depts end, and everything from the Liverpool Echo papers end, no longer commonly refers to the victims as "the 96 Liverpool fans who lost their lives at Hillsboro" like, for E.G, it was said then on M0TD.

Maybe they'll just refer to them as the "96 football fans who lost their lives" for example Jay said but see if we get owt back from Club anyway (they may say it has to be raised through the 'official Supporters committee' now though and not Spirit of Shankly Supporters Union.

Great work, fella.

The only thing we have to be cautious about, I guess, is that we can't be sure that his remaining family wouldn't actually prefer there not to be any fuss about distinguishing him from the other victims in any way - especially after all this time. What I or any other Spurs fan feels about it is utterly insignificant by comparison.

 

[Toela65]

Great work, fella.

The only thing we have to be cautious about, I guess, is that we can't be sure that his remaining family wouldn't actually prefer there not to be any fuss about distinguishing him from the other victims in any way - especially after all this time. What I or any other Spurs fan feels about it is utterly insignificant by comparison.

Very good point.

I'll rely that.

I'm hoping through the family support/justice groups we can contact his family if needs be. Its strange to think I could find out next week his family literally lives on my road for all I know with us both being from Skem. Its not a very big place at all, just a little new-town built for the Liverpool overspill.

 

[EastLondonYid]

My mates and myself were tucked away in the strange corner between Leppings Lane and the North Stand so although we were safe from crushing up there we could see the situation develop.

When the gates were finally opened thats where alot of us went,where you were.....if my memory serves me right didn't alot of our fans sit around the touchline?

 

[mkkid]

That's completely different, though. A bunch of guys singing in concourses because they're oblivious to what's going on in the stands.

Chelsea fans, by contrast, knowingly boo and chant during the minute's silence for Hillsborough even when they're at their seats - as they did at Wembley a couple of years back.

Anyone know why they do it?

Liverpool blamed chelsea and the NF after heysel disaster.

 

[Shea]

That's completely different, though. A bunch of guys singing in concourses because they're oblivious to what's going on in the stands.

Chelsea fans, by contrast, knowingly boo and chant during the minute's silence for Hillsborough even when they're at their seats - as they did at Wembley a couple of years back.

Anyone know why they do it?

It's still bad that they were oblivious to it - it was high profile event they surely would have known about and should have been respectful enough to keep themselves aware of when they were supposed to be observing the silence

Their ignorance is disrespectful and brought shame on themselves and our club

 

[StanSpur]

Spurs fan or not he was there supporting Liverpool with his mates so i dont think there is a problem with Liverpools branding of the 96. The feel a sense of responsability to remember their loss and as long as his name is remembered then his club affiliation isn't the most important thing. More of a question would surely be - why have i never heard about this from Tottenham?

Truth is as long as he is remembered and the case to get answers is persued then that is what really matters

 

[Shanks]

I was told by some more respectful CFC fans that it is seen by some of their fans (the type who still wish it was the early 80s and Green St and all that nonsense, and urm, don't mind the EDL shall we say) now as a badge of honour, the thing to be done, they like it and see it as their "duty". They're, unbelievably I'm told, proud of it and proud to do it. They seem to see it as some form of protest for something or other.

Thankfully, its a small, but very loud and vocal, minority.

I know I haven't explained that very well but I know exactly why they do it, and was expecting it today and none of us were in the slightest bit surprised, but just can't find the right words to describe why they do it other than they enjoy it, their proud of it & they don't think its a bad thing to do or makes them look bad.

BTW, RE the Spurs fan in the 96, I think its down to pure and simple ignorance of him being a Spurs fan. I had no idea and I go to all the memorials. I even wonder if the recent powers that be at LFC even know, coz there's no way if they did they wouldn't have pointed it out at least once surely?!

EDIT - This new info has really shook me up. Why aren't the Club or the families groups or someone at least paying lip service to the fact that not all the 96 were Liverpool fans? I'm not happy about this I'm going to look into it and make svme enquiries with Spirit of Shankly & the Supporters Committee.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter much that 1 fan was a Spurs fan.

It was a tragedy, and for those in Liverpool (blue or red), many families were effected by it. So to speak, this is Liverpool's tragedy, not anyone else's - not sure if that makes sense.

I wouldn't want Spurs or anyone to make so much fuss about there being 1 spurs fan - I relate this to a typical Facebook post claiming attention, let it be, mourn the loss, celebrate the lives of those lost, doesn't really matter what team they supported.

 

[TheChosenOne]

When the gates were finally opened thats where alot of us went,where you were.....if my memory serves me right didn't alot of our fans sit around the touchline?

Now I know this thread is about Hillsborough and in particular Colin Sefton and indeed all due respect to all concerned.

This link is much more detailed than I can say, even including a spooky prequel video of the fans getting over the fences. ..

http://thehillsboroughdisasterdocum.../hillsborough-1981-disaster-narrowly-avoided/

Another point I would like to add is that I knew a fair few Liverpool lads back in the 1980's and our lot used to drive up for the weekend when either Liv or Ev were at home, even Manchester matches. They used to put us up and take us on the town and they would come down to us for the London/Wembley matches and even to our Ascot trips. It was great times and mainly how I happened to be standing in the Kop when we won that victory in the mid 80's..

As a Spurs fan I stood on the Shelf for the 1986 FA Cup semi final - Liverpool vs Southampton with our Liverpool mates - A weird experience but something to remember 28 years on.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Now I know this thread is about Hillsborough and in particular Colin Sefton and indeed all due respect to all concerned.

This link is much more detailed than I can say, even including a spooky prequel video of the fans getting over the fences. ..

http://thehillsboroughdisasterdocum.../hillsborough-1981-disaster-narrowly-avoided/

Another point I would like to add is that I knew a fair few Liverpool lads back in the 1980's and our lot used to drive up for the weekend when either Liv or Ev were at home, even Manchester matches. They used to put us up and take us on the town and they would come down to us for the London/Wembley matches and even to our Ascot trips. It was great times and mainly how I happened to be standing in the Kop when we won that victory in the mid 80's..

As a Spurs fan I stood on the Shelf for the 1986 FA Cup semi final - Liverpool vs Southampton with our Liverpool mates - A weird experience but something to remember 28 years on.

Wow looking at that video brought it all back...it was exactly like he descibed it, i was at the front pleading with the police to let us out, if my memory serves me right i think the gate only opened towards us which made things worse as they had to somehow push us back to open it....i was just a teenager and was absolutely convinced i was going to die, you have to experience it to know how bad it is...i will never forget the moment i got out....

How i feel for those fans in 89.

 

[Metalhead]

Wow looking at that video brought it all back...it was exactly like he descibed it, i was at the front pleading with the police to let us out, if my memory serves me right i think the gate only opened towards us which made things worse as they had to somehow push us back to open it....i was just a teenager and was absolutely convinced i was going to die, you have to experience it to know how bad it is...i will never forget the moment i got out....

How i feel for those fans in 89.

Definitely and the poor families who have had to live with it for 25 years. The point is that the members of the community in Liverpool remember the 96 people as human beings as well as football fans and ensure that they are not forgotten. I don't know Colin's family but I'm sure we would all like to think that they would appreciate him being remembered on a Spurs fansite but whether there needs to be any specific mention elsewhere, I'm not sure that's necessary.

 

[RickyVilla]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-26992939

Hillsborough stories