Danny Welbeck

I seem to recall some ITK from a while back saying Levy had an obsession with Welbeck, because of his age, versatility and because he's English. Does anyone else recall that or did I dream it?

Rout-Ledge said:

I'd love Welbeck at Spurs. United fans rate him very highly indeed.

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Certainly do, and to be fair they'd know a lot more than the average Spurs fan.

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/danny-welbeck-wants-to-leave.389044/

DaSpurs said:

If they thought Sturridge was mediocre even while he was at Chelsea, then then their talent evaluation inputs are no longer relevant. On your point however, it's likely true that many of the same people are decrying such a rumored interest. But for that price there's just no way.

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Mate, most people on here were bracketing Sturridge as another Defoe...loads were saying it, and to be fair it was a pretty close comparison at the time.

Mr Pink said:

Mate, most people on here were bracketing Sturridge as another Defoe...loads were saying it, and to be fair it was a pretty close comparison at the time.

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Loads also thought Lamela was the second coming of Christ. If logical thought was congruent with popularity, we'd still be in the Stone Age.

In his cameos for Chelsea before he left, he showed footwork, awareness of goal, and aggression toward goal that made Abramovich's insistence on Torres in fall of 2012 alone just look absurd.

DaSpurs said:

Loads also thought Lamela was the second coming of Christ. If logical thought was congruent with popularity, we'd still be in the Stone Age.

In his cameos for Chelsea before he left, he showed footwork, awareness of goal, and aggression toward goal that made Abramovich's insistence on Torres in fall of 2012 alone just look absurd.

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It's Easter Sunday, does that mean that Lamela's going to come out from his burial chamber and ascend into our first team?
...
Please?

DaSpurs said:

Loads also thought Lamela was the second coming of Christ. If logical thought was congruent with popularity, we'd still be in the Stone Age.

In his cameos for Chelsea before he left, he showed footwork, awareness of goal, and aggression toward goal that made Abramovich's insistence on Torres in fall of 2012 alone just look absurd.

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Would like to think he showed 'footwork' on a football pitch lol

Not sure what the hell Lamela has to do with anything. He's very young, speaks very little English and has been injured for a huge chunk of the season.

Mr Pink said:

Would like to think he showed 'footwork' on a football pitch lol

Not sure what the hell Lamela has to do with anything. He's very young, speaks very little English and has been injured for a huge chunk of the season.

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Footwork was the first category under the ensuing point, don't be childish.

There's no need to have yet another Lamela debate because in truth, I actually agree with the reasons you cite for his poor first season. However, it's beside the point. There's no doubt he's a good player and could yet go on to be great for us, but the majority reacted to his transfer as if it was a godsend. He doesn't even play the position that we needed, and didn't look like a style of player that would immediately succeed in England. So the point is that just because a majority believes something, does not necessarily mean it's based on sound rationale.

I would never be adverse to us signing a young talented English player although I'd be concerned with how much he would cost.

If you were Welbeck, would you even consider Spurs with the current manager?.....no I thought not.

Will be tough even if/when we get a new boss but we shouldn't delay in pulling the trigger.

DaSpurs said:

Footwork was the first category under the ensuing point, don't be childish.

There's no need to have yet another Lamela debate because in truth, I actually agree with the reasons you cite for his poor first season. However, it's beside the point. There's no doubt he's a good player and could yet go on to be great for us, but the majority reacted to his transfer as if it was a godsend. He doesn't even play the position that we needed, and didn't look like a style of player that would immediately succeed in England. So the point is that just because a majority believes something, does not necessarily mean it's based on sound rationale.

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It was a joke, don't take things so seriously.

And your original point about people's opinions on talents being irrelevant now if they thought Sturridge wasn't quite as good at Chelsea as he is now is pure rubbish.

I'd imagine if Welbeck moves he would prefer to play up front rather then be shunted out to the wing like he is at United. Here he'd still be third choice behind Ade and Bobby unless one is sold. Could see him off to Arsenal, think he could give Giroud a good challenge.

Scott Spur said:

If you were Welbeck, would you even consider Spurs with the current manager?.....no I thought not.

Will be tough even if/when we get a new boss but we shouldn't delay in pulling the trigger.

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Seriously though, if you were a new manager coming into Spurs and wanting to bring success would you even be considering a distinctly average striker like Welbeck?
If that's the level of player the new man wants to bring in then I would suggest he will not be around too long

ButchCassidy said:

I'd imagine if Welbeck moves he would prefer to play up front rather then be shunted out to the wing like he is at United. Here he'd still be third choice behind Ade and Bobby unless one is sold. Could see him off to Arsenal, think he could give Giroud a good challenge.

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I could see him being part of a fluid front three here. A lot like Liverpool. It'd be different to the way Moyes is using him.

Plus if Ade goes then Welbeck will be a good replacement. He has similar attributes.

WiganSpur said:

I could see him being part of a fluid front three here. A lot like Liverpool. It'd be different to the way Moyes is using him.

Welbeck--Soldado--Lamela
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Plus if Ade goes then Welbeck will be a good replacement. He has similar attributes.

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That is a very attack-minded trident. Not a bad idea in and of itself, but we're going to have to get quite a bit better in the midfield in terms of possession, distribution, and cover to support such a aggressive frontline.

DaSpurs said:

That is a very attack-minded trident. Not a bad idea in and of itself, but we're going to have to get quite a bit better in the midfield in terms of possession, distribution, and cover to support such a aggressive frontline.

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sandro/capoue, dembele/paulinho/bentaleb/holtby and eriksen would be fine. welbeck works tirelessly off the ball and lamela works hard as well based on his early/only appearances for the club.

Blake Griffin said:

sandro/capoue, dembele/paulinho/bentaleb/holtby and eriksen would be fine. welbeck works tirelessly off the ball and lamela works hard as well based on his early/only appearances for the club.

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Unless the new manager makes the necessary change to open up the field by removing the high back line and implements a concrete new plan with assigned roles, I disagree that such a midfield would be good enough. We can debate that elsewhere however, should you so choose.

I like the effort from Welbeck and Lamela, but that's still a very high forward line without much winger's pace. Strikers being played out on the wing doesn't always work because while they have pace, they've acclimated their muscles to give an extra kick from an adrenaline rush upon going for a goal-scoring chance. They're not used to running up and down a pitch for ninety minutes in the modern game. Very different mental battle, which is directly connected to adrenaline supply. So as often is the case, these players such as Welbeck, Cavani, or Remy will certainly shut up and play because no player has ever told a coach he or she didn't want to play, but you tend to hear rumblings later that they aren't happy with such a position.

As such, the line you suggest would have plenty of attack impetus and frankly I like your analogy to Liverpool's front line. But it would optimally require a bit more longevity pace without major adjustments to the midfield (even instruction-wise, I'm certainly not calling for an overhaul).

I really don't see a major problem with that 4-3-3 set up providing our full backs are good at both attacking and in defence. We can address left back in the transfer window.

We're Spurs and we need to be attacking. Sandro, Dembele and Eriksen behind the forwards would be an excellent combination. You could even swap Holtby for Dembele when we're going to be allowed more space.

Not only would we be capable in possession, but we'd have a real goal threat upfront. Soldado/Ade, Welbeck & Lamela would all be capable of replicating what Liverpool have done this year with Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling.

The only issue is that we'll need good full backs and it's up to us to strengthen that area.

Welbeck is a good player. Would definitely take him.

WiganSpur said:

I really don't see a major problem with that 4-3-3 set up providing our full backs are good at both attacking and in defence. We can address left back in the transfer window.

We're Spurs and we need to be attacking. Sandro, Dembele and Eriksen behind the forwards would be an excellent combination. You could even swap Holtby for Dembele when we're going to be allowed more space.

Not only would we be capable in possession, but we'd have a real goal threat upfront. Soldado/Ade, Welbeck & Lamela would all be capable of replicating what Liverpool have done this year with Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling.

The only issue is that we'll need good full backs and it's up to us to strengthen that area.

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Fair enough, so it seems we will discuss this midfield here.

First off, you're absolutely right that fullback support and the use of Holtby a bit more reserved to create space would be very beneficial and supportive to such a setup. But as of right now, I have significant concerns over Sandro and Dembele's injuries. Neither player has looked even close to 100% this year. I think people are remembering fondly our central midfield from last year (as they should), but underestimating the severity of these two player's injuries and the extent to which they can be recovered from. Sandro's injury takes awhile to heal, especially since he's a bigger guy (higher mass to ligament length and girth ratio) and playing in an extremely demanding league in an extremely demanding sport. Dembele's looks as if it's been worsening all season, which is particularly worrying since he won't really be getting a break this summer. I haven't been particularly impressed with Paulinho as is, and am hoping he'll be moved on in the summer. Bentaleb looks a decent player at his age, and should certainly be a solid squad option going forward.

The major problem is that all four of the above mentioned players are entirely too similar in their ball movement. We have no one capable of quickly swapping the field and transitioning to attack (immensely crucial for such a 4-3-3) and these players hardly play forward as is (especially trough the attacking third). If you only have one player on the field (Eriksen or Holtby) who will look to pass centrally through the defensive lines, you've already surrendered a pile of points because you're entirely too predictable. Eriksen alongside a slightly deeper Holtby certainly helps to solve such a problem, but Holtby is unfortunately found a bit lacking at the moment for getting stuck in in the middle and especially against bigger players. He also isn't great at following a runner into the box while playing more reserved. Unless Sandro sees a significant recovery this summer or Capoue stays healthy, this doesn't provide enough defensive coverage.

Hence, this is where the winger-forwards come in. With such attack-minded players in the front line, not only can they not provide the optimal defensive coverage you'd like to see from a winger, but it also pushes the fullbacks up a bit higher to provide tangible width. Thus, without a sound enough core in the middle and a lack of vertical play, the wide players can easily be caught out of position (very often the case this season and compounded by the high back line) and opponents are easily in on goal.

So in the sense of creating a foundation, which we could massively use at the moment, I think it's very important we create a midfield that can get back to dominating a game with possession and athleticism. As such an advantage would go to great lengths in instilling vastly needed confidence, I think it's also important we look for a winger situation that is conducive to such a motive. Between Konoplyanka, Chadli, Lamela, and Townsend you have plenty of diverse players that all like to move inside to interact with the central midfielders and striker as well as bags of pace.

In summary, bringing in Welbeck to play a position he's expressed distaste for along with remaining with our risky current setup in midfield is IMO consequently setting up to not succeed next term.

danielneeds said:

Obviously it's bullshit, but we could do with a player of similar characteristics - pacey, relentless worker, making intelligent runs behind defences, it's something we've lacked for a long time.

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Oh what Aaron Lennon could have been