The England Thread

jondesouza · Jun 25, 2014

danielneeds said:
The problem is we clearly dont have any midfielders disciplined or intelligent enough to play the double pivot in a 4231, enabling us to play with a No 10. Playing a proper 3 in there in theory would give us more control and let the front 3 attack with more freedom.

I think we do, they're just overlooked as they don't play for big teams. I think this tournament has shown that individual player quality is less important than getting the right players fulfilling the right roles. As I said in response to BC earlier, I'd look at Jack Cork of Southampton to fulfil the defensive mid role in the 2 as he's the best player we have there.

ItsBoris · Jun 25, 2014

The main problem is Woy. The man is so uselessly mediocre - lowering expectations is an art form for him. He was fucking useless at Liverpool and has been for England as well, just doesn't have the mentality to manage a team with winning expectations. Apparently he's phoned into talksport to defend himself - I'll have a good laugh listening to that later.

ItsBoris · Jun 25, 2014

mpickard2087 said:
Del Bosque willing to go. Italy manager has taken responsibility for underachievement and gone. Likewise, Ivory Coast manager has fallen on his sword.

Woy stumbles on though, farcical.

Because Woy is a fraud and always has been and he knows it. Woy's strategy is not to jump higher, but to lower the bar. The FA are the real fools though for not sacking him immediately. Woy continues to steal a living while the FA buy into his BS.

cookiemonster · Jun 26, 2014

Seems like the face rubbing owl is staying

"The FA wants me to stay,the players wants me to stay "

The arrogance of this buffoon is absolutely staggering

If I am a journalist,this is my one question to him -" can you tell me in more than 30 years of management,what have you won/achieve in that time"

DuDe · Jun 26, 2014

ItsBoris said:
Because Woy is a fraud and always has been and he knows it. Woy's strategy is not to jump higher, but to lower the bar. The FA are the real fools though for not sacking him immediately. Woy continues to steal a living while the FA buy into his BS.

Well put, sir. (y)

Shanks · Jul 2, 2014

we've seen a few 'lesser' teams play unbelievably well, and to their strengths this week.

it's been brilliant to watch.

but it makes me wonder, even more, why England can't play well together.

I completely maintain my opinion, that it's down to system and the fact we pick the top players and try to fit them into alien positions, rather than finding the best person for that position and then making the team work as a unit - not indivudals.

Klinnsman has done a bloody amazing job with the USA - I say get him to England to manage the national team asap.... a german managing england would be something eh?

nidge · Jul 2, 2014

Shanks said:
we've seen a few 'lesser' teams play unbelievably well, and to their strengths this week.

it's been brilliant to watch.

but it makes me wonder, even more, why England can't play well together.

I completely maintain my opinion, that it's down to system and the fact we pick the top players and try to fit them into alien positions, rather than finding the best person for that position and then making the team work as a unit - not indivudals.

Klinnsman has done a bloody amazing job with the USA - I say get him to England to manage the national team asap.... a german managing england would be something eh?

English players don't seem to be too willing to sacrifice their own self interest and put the team and nation first.

Look at how the US, Costa Rica, Algeria and Greece have man for man less talented players but as individuals they have all bought into the idea that the team comes first, that is something that isn't taught that much in English football.

For me England's problem lie in the mentality of the players when appearing for their country and not the actual talent the players have or don't have.

Of course the above is just my perception of situation and not based on any facts or evidence.

teok · Jul 2, 2014

Isn't it funny that sven was ridiculed so badly but in the grand scheme of things he did well in comparison?

I honestly don't think it has any thing to do with coaching at the top level. We have tried pretty much every different style of coach we can and none of them worked.

We just have too take a long view on this. As has been said multiple times over the last decade. English players don't have basic ball control. The simple act of receiving the ball and passing it to another player under pressure which is taken as a given in other countries.

This has to be developed from the ground up. Another worrying thing is our defending. Some thing we used to at least be solid at and have a number of options. Same goes with goal keepers?

WalkerboyUK · Jul 2, 2014

As I tweeted last night:

England - 3 lions on shirt, played like pussies
USA - Played with the heart of 3 lions.

Same could be said for Algeria against Germany. I have no argument with England losing a game if there is physical evidence that they have given their all. I want to see our players exhausted but still putting their bodies on the line.
Until I read/hear about that happening I won't watch another England game.

WalkerboyUK · Jul 2, 2014

teok said:
This has to be developed from the ground up. Another worrying thing is our defending. Some thing we used to at least be solid at and have a number of options. Same goes with goal keepers?

Defending in the world cup as a whole this year hasn't been fantastic.

absolute bobbins · Jul 2, 2014

I actually struggling think of an economically developed Western nation that England would beat at the moment.

Maybe Canada or New Zealand but they're just America's hat and Australia's pet respectively.

Shanks · Jul 2, 2014

teok said:
Isn't it funny that sven was ridiculed so badly but in the grand scheme of things he did well in comparison?

I honestly don't think it has any thing to do with coaching at the top level. We have tried pretty much every different style of coach we can and none of them worked.

We just have too take a long view on this. As has been said multiple times over the last decade. English players don't have basic ball control. The simple act of receiving the ball and passing it to another player under pressure which is taken as a given in other countries.

This has to be developed from the ground up. Another worrying thing is our defending. Some thing we used to at least be solid at and have a number of options. Same goes with goal keepers?

It's not a coaching issue per sae, but definitely a management issue - getting the team working together.

individual talent is there, in abundance.. no denying that, but not being able to put each individual into a team, and getting them bought into the bigger picture, is all down to management structure.

Arrogance, ego's and everything else that goes with self serving individuals.

Kendinho · Jul 2, 2014

I know everyone is creaming over the USA's showing last night, but if not for Howard it would've been a cricket score. Teamwork or no team work, they were horribly exposed on many occasions, 5 shots on target to 17. On another day it's 5-0 to Belgium and we're not suggesting the USA are a template to model England on.

nidge · Jul 2, 2014

Kendinho said:
I know everyone is creaming over the USA's showing last night, but if not for Howard it would've been a cricket score. Teamwork or no team work, they were horribly exposed on many occasions, 5 shots on target to 17. On another day it's 5-0 to Belgium and we're not suggesting the USA are a template to model England on.

If the England team worked as hard and as together as the US team they would still be in the tournament imo.

The reason the US team had to rely on Howard to stop it being a cricket score was down to the difference in ability between the two teams and in the end hard work and being well organised wasn't going to be able to bridge that gap in ability. (Although sometimes it can.)

mpickard2087 · Jul 2, 2014

teok said:
Isn't it funny that sven was ridiculed so badly but in the grand scheme of things he did well in comparison?

I honestly don't think it has any thing to do with coaching at the top level. We have tried pretty much every different style of coach we can and none of them worked.

We just have too take a long view on this. As has been said multiple times over the last decade. English players don't have basic ball control. The simple act of receiving the ball and passing it to another player under pressure which is taken as a given in other countries.

This has to be developed from the ground up. Another worrying thing is our defending. Some thing we used to at least be solid at and have a number of options. Same goes with goal keepers?

Sven had better players though... Rio, Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, a young and sharp Rooney, Owen was on the decline but still a good poacher, Scholes was around for a few tournaments... Enough individual talent to at least make a good fist of tournaments, but it still had the same problems we see now... Poor, unbalanced selections and the apparent reliance on certain players.

And I would disagree completely on coaching. In my opinion British coaches in general are lagging far behind the rest, to me they don't actually understand modern football and particularly tactics.

Mustard · Jul 2, 2014

I think people are forgetting how unlucky we were tbh.

Sure we deserved to go home. But it could easily have been different bar a few fractions of inches.

I don't buy the coaching thing. Pretty much all prem clubs have excellent facilities and top European standard coaching systems.

I still maintain our core problem is the pool of talent. There just simply isn't enough English players playing top flight football in England or, lol, Europe for us to get a capable team good enough to mix it with the big guns like Costa Rica.

jondesouza · Jul 2, 2014

Mustard said:
I think people are forgetting how unlucky we were tbh.

Sure we deserved to go home. But it could easily have been different bar a few fractions of inches.

I don't buy the coaching thing. Pretty much all prem clubs have excellent facilities and top European standard coaching systems.

I still maintain our core problem is the pool of talent. There just simply isn't enough English players playing top flight football in England or, lol, Europe for us to get a capable team good enough to mix it with the big guns like Costa Rica.

Doesn't the Costa Rica example undermine your view? How many Costa Ricans are playing top flight football in reasonable leagues?

Mustard · Jul 2, 2014

jondesouza said:
Doesn't the Costa Rica example undermine your view? How many Costa Ricans are playing top flight football in reasonable leagues?

What's a reasonable league? Is the Costa Rica league any good? On balance of their national squad I would say yes. Of course there are other factors in comparison to England this campaign. The conditions, continent etc... But isn't it clear that having a bigger pool of players helps a smart National coach have more options available to him.

TheHoddleWaddle · Jul 2, 2014

Does anyone know how much, if any pressure the English FA put on the manager re certain players being in the squad? I cannot help but think they do have some influence regarding the more marketable players. AS it has been blatantly obvious for years that there needs to be a squad picked on team work as opposed to individual ability.

teok · Jul 2, 2014

mpickard2087 said:
And I would disagree completely on coaching. In my opinion British coaches in general are lagging far behind the rest, to me they don't actually understand modern football and particularly tactics.

I meant the national team coach we have been through loads of them. Obviously grass roots coaching is terrible.

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