The Daily ITK Discussion Thread CHRISTMAS EDITION

BPR_U16 · Dec 27, 2015

shelfboy68 said:
Same here i would love us to bring 1/2 in for a second half of the season push as this season its wide open.
But must confess Im not expecting much or anything to happen in the way of incomings, possible outgoings to free up wages would seem the most likely.
I actually think we might have more chance of challenging for the league this time rather than under Harry as imo this team is better balanced and focused, while the league this time round is more open than i Can ever remember in Premier league history.

Difference between position we are in this time compared to where we were with Harry is immense.
Then we certainly had an opportunity to push on and we had more star names then but less of a squad. To make that next step demanded a leap of faith in a big outlay of cash.
This time we have a more balanced aquad but more importantly a manager in Poch who knows what he's doing, knows what he wants and can actually coach and improve players to reflect his ideas if the players he wants become available we need to back him - his journey to a long term success might just take a short-cut.

jezz · Dec 27, 2015

stevenurse said:
Not sure I'd want berahino. The squad harmony seems as good as I've ever known it and the playing side of buying a player is only half the risk as far as I'm concerned.

Whoever comes in needs to be a likeable character too. We don't need another adebayor on our hands. Someone good enough but needs to understand they are 2nd choice for now and the foreseeable

Don't think so.
If our manager is telling players coming in your second choice I would be disappointed to say the least.
I hope MP is saying you come here to be competition for a spot in the team.

DaSpurs · Dec 27, 2015

jezz said:
Don't think so.
If our manager is telling players coming in your second choice I would be disappointed to say the least.
I hope MP is saying you come here to be competition for a spot in the team.

I would suspect that it varies for different scenarios. I would be very surprised if Wimmer, for instance, arrived under any illusion that he was going to compete with Vertonghen for first choice, especially since we dropped 11.5 m GBP on Vertonghen's old CB partner that same summer.

On one hand, you do want to encourage players, but you also can't lure a player in on unrealistic expectations.

Hercules · Dec 27, 2015

Hercules said:
I repeat it is absolute madness to go into second half of the season with one striker is not an option! Not even for a debate.

Sweech, I cannot take you serious to disagree. No comment at all! To actually agree to go with Kane rest of season with no back up, and Clint out 3-4 months. You are talking twaddle.

Spurs1960 · Dec 27, 2015

Hercules said:
Sweech, I cannot take you serious to disagree. No comment at all! To actually agree to go with Kane rest of season with no back up, and Clint out 3-4 months. You are talking twaddle.

Pochettino knows better than us so i'll back his decision rather than try to make it for him.

Spurs1960 · Dec 27, 2015

spursfan77 said:
That was in regard to embolo dude not berardi

It the issue with every player, not just Embolo

DaSpurs · Dec 27, 2015

Hercules said:
Sweech, I cannot take you serious to disagree. No comment at all! To actually agree to go with Kane rest of season with no back up, and Clint out 3-4 months. You are talking twaddle.

I don't think anyone's flat out disagreeing with that, but simply rather that mindlessly bringing in any striker might not necessarily be to any benefit whatsoever, and could possibly even be to a detriment. I think we're all in census agreement that we need a backup striker, but getting a guy in just for the sake of padding that spot might actually solve nothing.

Hercules · Dec 27, 2015

DaSpurs said:
I don't think anyone's flat out disagreeing with that, but simply rather that mindlessly bringing in any striker might not necessarily be to any benefit whatsoever, and could possibly even be to a detriment. I think we're all in census agreement that we need a backup striker, but getting a guy in just for the sake of padding that spot might actually solve nothing.

In this modern world they have had a good five months to agree on a few options. Now for example if the manager wants SB, just get the same thing fone at their price, on their terms! Cannot do that then have 2-3 options ready to go. I cannot accept any lame excuse saying we couldn't even have that sorted.

DaSpurs · Dec 27, 2015

Hercules said:
In this modern world they have had a good five months to agree on a few options. Now for example if the manager wants SB, just get the same thing fone at their price, on their terms! Cannot do that then have 2-3 options ready to go. I cannot accept any lame excuse saying we couldn't even have that sorted.

I'm not worried about our ability to identify targets anymore, and I agree that it shouldn't be an excuse, but the problem is getting both player and club to agree to the move midseason. That in and of itself limits our available options extensively, and thus reduces the number of players Poch/Mitchell/coaching staff would agree to to an even smaller number. I'm saying then that it's better to continue with what's available rather buying some random player who ticks all the other boxes of a) willing to come, b) club willing to sell just to fill that squad place.

Hercules · Dec 27, 2015

DaSpurs said:
I'm not worried about our ability to identify targets anymore, and I agree that it shouldn't be an excuse, but the problem is getting both player and club to agree to the move midseason. That in and of itself limits our available options extensively, and thus reduces the number of players Poch/Mitchell/coaching staff would agree to to an even smaller number. I'm saying then that it's better to continue with what's available rather buying some random player who ticks all the other boxes of a) willing to come, b) club willing to sell just to fill that squad place.

I am not saying what you are saying in your conclusion. We are obviously understanding but missing each other at the same time. I cannot accept your conclusion in their eyes. If it is so there is a clear problem. For the record, I do believe we will sign s striker.

whitelanefever · Dec 27, 2015

DaSpurs said:
I'm not worried about our ability to identify targets anymore, and I agree that it shouldn't be an excuse, but the problem is getting both player and club to agree to the move midseason. That in and of itself limits our available options extensively, .

On the button.. not only getting clubs to sell... from a buying sense can they play Europa lg.. most notable targets are cup tied, so does a large outlay in January make sense if they can't play in European games.. Kane is going to start every Lg game..

We're left with a dilemma.. do we go a short term solution & run the risk of disrupting the harmony of the squad or go off the radar & buy for the future & have that work ethic in training to push the established players that has served us well...ie wink..Onomah.. although not in games there contribution to the squad is massive.. young hungry players in training chomping at the bit eager to impress putting pressure on first team players to show the same work ethic & dedication or there out..

The only other options are loans or loans to buy.. On the whole are options are limited which makes sense of interest in Berahino persisting.. I think he is very talented & can understand his frustration of been at an anti-football team where he can never grow as a player though as I thought in the summer 15ml is his value.. there's another former WBA player available for free in the summer & refusing to sign a contract because promises were broken to him & that's Jerome Sinclair at Liverpool, 18 only cost a couple of million.. has the basic tools to be a top striker.. I'd go for it.. a body in to starve off the panic.. anyway no-matter who comes in I think we would not leave a frontman isolated if we lost Kane & would see the likes of Son, Ali, Lamela &Chadli or whatever combinations playing closer to each other & interchanging.

Sweech · Dec 28, 2015

DaSpurs said:
I don't think anyone's flat out disagreeing with that, but simply rather that mindlessly bringing in any striker might not necessarily be to any benefit whatsoever, and could possibly even be to a detriment. I think we're all in census agreement that we need a backup striker, but getting a guy in just for the sake of padding that spot might actually solve nothing.

Eeeeexactly.

We have players that can play as striker.

If we don't get our targets then there's no reason to just add someone for the sake of it. As they likely won't be played and we'll then spend how many windows trying to sell them. Haven't we seen that movie enough times now?

Not to mention, I believe I've said it ad nauseum, but players need a bedding in time. Almost any addition won't really affect the squad too much. The whole "adding in January for a push" is a myth that almost never works out.

LexingtonSpurs · Dec 28, 2015

whitelanefever said:
Kane is going to start every Lg game..

.

Kane is going to start every Europa game also...it remains to be seen how strong a squad will play the FA cup matches.

KirstyG · Dec 28, 2015

DaSpurs said:
I don't think anyone's flat out disagreeing with that, but simply rather that mindlessly bringing in any striker might not necessarily be to any benefit whatsoever, and could possibly even be to a detriment. I think we're all in census agreement that we need a backup striker, but getting a guy in just for the sake of padding that spot might actually solve nothing.

Saha and Nelson: NEVER FORGET.

100% agree we need a striker but has to be the right one. One that fits the hard working flexible nature of the team. Someone who can sit on the bench and not rock the boat - wait for their moment and hit the ground running. We have to trust the manager he knows his training methods and the team dynamics better than most. He knows he needs someone they aren't fools but from a fans perspective in can be frustrating (I get that) but jan is also a difficult time to get the right guys in . It's crazy what a bit of good team spirit and confidence can do - really excited to see how these young players can develop. Coys.

stevenurse · Dec 28, 2015

jezz said:
Don't think so.
If our manager is telling players coming in your second choice I would be disappointed to say the least.
I hope MP is saying you come here to be competition for a spot in the team.

Of course but you have got to be realistic in the sense that nobody is going to come in and shift the poster boy of the club who has just broken the record for league goals in a year. Much like Son not being immediately a starter. Luckily it seems he is the right character for the team. Any player that comes in should be confident enough to back themselves but still realise it's gonna take a while, a huge drop of form, or an injury to get many starts

absolute bobbins · Dec 28, 2015

Hercules said:
In this modern world they have had a good five months to agree on a few options. Now for example if the manager wants SB, just get the same thing fone at their price, on their terms! Cannot do that then have 2-3 options ready to go. I cannot accept any lame excuse saying we couldn't even have that sorted.

It doesn't work like that. I would explain finance to you but I've tried to explain it to others before and it's just like banging my head against a brick wall

GetSpurredOn · Dec 28, 2015

Sweech said:
Not to mention, I believe I've said it as nauseum, but players need a bedding in time. Almost any addition won't really affect the squad too much. The whole "adding in January for a push" is a myth that almost never works out.

Whilst I'm not 100% convinced Berahino is the striker we actually need stylistically, there's an element of me that believes his apparent familiarity with a number of our English contingent from international squads, could speed up that process.
His petulant attitude at the end of the Summer Window should be a concern, however, prior to that he seemed very focussed on the fact he specifically wanted to come to us, and that is a positive. We want players that want to play for us, identify with being part of the team/club, buy into the prestige of representing our club and adopt the team ethos, not just mercenary players who don't care who they play for so long as they get their pay check (Adebayor).
The fact all ITK suggested at the time, that Berahino was the number one choice of Pochettino, and Trix hears that is still the case, I'm all for the club going after him as I feel he could provide the necessary impact. Equally, it is pleasing to hear this time we do have a list of more than just one player, that Pochettino accepts as viable alternatives.

jezz · Dec 28, 2015

stevenurse said:
Of course but you have got to be realistic in the sense that nobody is going to come in and shift the poster boy of the club who has just broken the record for league goals in a year. Much like Son not being immediately a starter. Luckily it seems he is the right character for the team. Any player that comes in should be confident enough to back themselves but still realise it's gonna take a while, a huge drop of form, or an injury to get many starts

Agreed I'd go with that.

Hercules · Dec 28, 2015

absolute bobbins said:
It doesn't work like that. I would explain finance to you but I've tried to explain it to others before and it's just like banging my head against a brick wall

I understand finance as I also run my own small hedge fund. Bottom line what I want you to grasp is beyond finance to.l a point. I think Karren BrDy summed it up best; 'The manager along with a team of people that includes agents etc, draw up a list of ideal and get-able players. It is no use being unrealistic and some/managers are. We then set out to secure the plYers with agreements in place for others if that falls through. We do our business early as best we can, as the longer the window and negotiations take is the less likely you are of signing the player. That is what we gone with Payet'. That is not her exact words but a summary of what she said. Both chairmen backed that up.

That is where I base my comments on. I cannot accept that we are so backwards (SB great example) we cannot get our business done. Summer was ok, I go with the manager on we have enough cover through Son and Clint. Son is no striker, and Clint out 2-3 months. We now do not have that luxury like we did close of summer window.

longtimespur · Dec 28, 2015

absolute bobbins said:
It doesn't work like that. I would explain finance to you but I've tried to explain it to others before and it's just like banging my head against a brick wall

Get yourself a crash helmet buddy

Not everybody can understand finances so it's always going to be problems for some. :whistle:

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