Liverpool are they better than us?

It's a very valid question.

I think on paper, man for man we are actually quite closely matched, closer than the league position suggests, but they are in the type of transition we were in the season we appointed Pochettino. We played some fucking atrocious and inconsistent stuff last season at times, as Poch struggled without a proper pre season, with some players that didn't suit his system etc. We could see glimmers of promise in games and big pointers in two or three. Just as Liverpool are showing the odd glimmer under Klopp.

Klopp is a very similar manager to Pochettino and is further down the evolutionary career path, has won major league titles etc, I think once Klopp starts tinkering with the squad a little, and they will back him, they do spend and have a higher wage bill than us, has a proper pre-season (the Euros might hopefully hamper that a bit this summer) I don't think there's any doubt that they will become more consistent and will be challenging - with us hopefully - for a top four place.

lukespurs7 said:

Over the season they've not been better but right now I'd say they're looking worryingly good for the future. Them under Klopp + Man.City under Pep next year, going to be very tough for us.

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Worryingly?

They look like they might be getting their shit together. They are better financed than us - but only fifth in the league in terms of financing, and we have halved the difference between them and us in the last decade. Between the new stadium, CL money, TV money, etc., I can only see that trend continuing. Besides which, we have a better youth set-up than them, better youth players (IMHO), and a better squad (we will finish above them for the sixth time in seven seasons in May). Much of our future progress will depend on this youth product (so long as Poch stays, at least), mitigating against their narrowing financial advantage. And we have the squad now, and it is a young and improving squad. As Trix says, they are where we were last season, and will have a lot of work to get their squad right next season. In the meantime, we will improve for all of the reasons SpurgerKing gave you.

It's funny, because what I have been seeing all over is oppos fans gloating before the event because they still haven't grasped what is going on with our youth set-up, and still simply believe Poch will leave and we will sell anyone that the very top tier clubs want, this summer, and become a mid-table team in time for next season. And that is still, of course, showing the ignorance of not appreciating that we have been 5th or 4th for the best part of the last decade, and not even sixth. Should we be worried by Liverpool? No. And that is what is funny...our rivals should be fearing us right now, and, for the most part, they are still too complacent to realise that. I am looking forward to next season because I can only see us improving and that should wipe the smiles off a lot of smug faces.

As of so far, Klopp hasn't shown that he is going to be any better at coping with the more competitive nature of the English league - were every single game is a game that can easily be lost if you are not at your best. When he does that and when my belief that we are going to go from strength to strength is proven wrong, then will be the time to start worrying

Trix said:

They did last Summer. So did Yanited, Chelsea and City.

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Noted. Except just as we have become better focused in our recruiting of additions, Klopp too will make the right additions to his squad. The point i am making is we can't be too dismissive of their squad or their manager.

piedpiper said:

Noted. Except just as we have become better focused in our recruiting of additions, Klopp too will make the right additions to his squad. The point i am making is we can't be too dismissive of their squad or their manager.

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How do you know that? At Dortmund their DOF was in charge of player recruitment (Michael Zorc), just as at Liverpool they have a transfer committee, so unless they change or scrap the transfer committee, there is a good chance nothing will change. Ian Ayre is stepping down in May 2017, but as I understand it, he is just the negotiator.

Bus-Conductor said:

It's a very valid question.

I think on paper, man for man we are actually quite closely matched, closer than the league position suggests, but they are in the type of transition we were in the season we appointed Pochettino. We played some fucking atrocious and inconsistent stuff last season at times, as Poch struggled without a proper pre season, with some players that didn't suit his system etc. We could see glimmers of promise in games and big pointers in two or three. Just as Liverpool are showing the odd glimmer under Klopp.

Klopp is a very similar manager to Pochettino and is further down the evolutionary career path, has won major league titles etc, I think once Klopp starts tinkering with the squad a little, and they will back him, they do spend and have a higher wage bill than us, has a proper pre-season (the Euros might hopefully hamper that a bit this summer) I don't think there's any doubt that they will become more consistent and will be challenging - with us hopefully - for a top four place.

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Klopp is further down his career path than Poch, and has won major honours, but he is yet to show that he can adjust to a league where every single game is an intense game that could potentially result in a defeat - Poch has.

They do have greater financial resources than us. But not enough to dominate the top of the league in terms of spending in a way that Citeh, Chelsea and United can. The financial gap between them and us has been halved in the last decade. And our new stadium, CL/TV money, etc., will see it being reduced even more.

They may spend more net than us on transfers, but so much of our project depends on youth product (as should theirs because they are only fifth best financed in division). Our youth set-up, youth personnel and youth of squad suggest that under Poch we aren't going to drop off significantly. Poch has already said, he wouldn't really be looking for squad fillers through the transfer market, just the occasional one-off player to improve the first team immediately. I think we will still be able to do that before the stadium is online.

Sorry to say, I think the years in the wilderness have created a fan-base who worry inordinately. Liverpool may provide genuine competition for us within a year or two - but are they going to banish us to some footballing wilderness we once knew only too painfully? No, not in my opinion, anyway.

spurs9 said:

How do you know that? At Dortmund their DOF was in charge of player recruitment (Michael Zorc), just as at Liverpool they have a transfer committee, so unless they change or scrap the transfer committee, there is a good chance nothing will change. Ian Ayre is stepping down in May 2017, but as I understand it, he is just the negotiator.

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Those changes won't result in Klopp not identifying who he wants to trim from his squad or identifying improvements. A preseason with his players and his incoming players will have them competing. Leicester were in a relegation battle last year this time.......Why would Klopp not have them at our level next season. I'm not as dismissive as others on their prospects for next season.

piedpiper said:

Those changes won't result in Klopp not identifying who he is wants to trim from his squad or identifying improvements. A preseason with his players and his incoming players will have them competing. Leicester were in a relegation battle last year this time.......

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Yes, but it's not just about Liverpool improving. It's about us worrying that they are going to improve so much that we are suffer for it. We shouldn't be worrying about competition - we should be relishing it. Will they improve that much in the next couple of seasons - I don't think so.

Why would Klopp not have them at our level next season.

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Because, in simple terms, it will only be the second year of his project, it will be Poch's third. Because we will improve ourselves, in a whole host of ways. We aren't just going to stand still at this season's, admittedly high, level.

I'm not as dismissive as others on their prospects for next season.

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I don;t think anyone is dismissive of their prospects for next season. I do think, sadly, you and a lot of other Spurs fans just do not grasp how good our young squad and head coach are, how much what we are doing depends on the youth set-up, and how good that is, and that we will most likely improve again next season.

piedpiper said:

Those changes won't result in Klopp not identifying who he is wants to trim from his squad or identifying improvements. A preseason with his players and his incoming players will have them competing. Leicester were in a relegation battle last year this time.......Why would Klopp not have them at our level next season. I'm not as dismissive as others on their prospects for next season.

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Rodgers identified players but he didn't get them. Even if he does get his players, there is no guarantee they will be the right ones/right fit, many good coaches have been undone by being poor in the transfer market.

On the Leicester comparison, 1) they are the exception, not the rule, 2) they have amazing fitness/injury record, due to their coaching, where as Klopp's teams suffer from a poor injury record (and it is not a coincidence). Why would Klopp not have them at our level... how about the fact that it's not easy to do, more coaches and teams have tried an failed than succeeded, especially at Liverpool.

I'm not saying that Klopp can't get Liverpool to be as good or better than us, just that it is no easy task, it's certainly not guaranteed and nothing they have shown so far this season points that towards that they will.

piedpiper said:

Noted. Except just as we have become better focused in our recruiting of additions, Klopp too will make the right additions to his squad. The point i am making is we can't be too dismissive of their squad or their manager.

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I'm not being dismissive, just saying it won't be an easy fix over one transfer window.

Trix said:

I'm not being dismissive, just saying it won't be an easy fix over one transfer window.

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I know you not being dismissive per se. There those though who think we will be way ahead of them. The points gap between us as an example will not be greater than this season.

I find myself defending Liverpool when i absolutely HATE that team, even more than the Gooners. I do see them progressing though.

Ps. Dont you sleep.

SERIOUSLY???????
One decent result and they are better than us?
Back in your box.

DogsOfWar said:

Realistically I would only take Coutinho and Sturridge from their starting eleven to start for us.

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Instead of who in our starting 11?

piedpiper said:

Some extremely childish responses to a simple question. During our match against them they "matched" us on the field. The game could have gone either way. Lloris as it turns out saved us.

Another poster has just mentioned their striker options vs our one. I feel that next season they will be challenging with us for the top 4. We always used the famous line of our coach inheriting his squad and give him time with his own players. Poch has now moulded his squad. Liverpool with a mix of what they have and Klopp making some additions will have them at our level next season.

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Because this thread is based on nothing but complete over-reaction, nothing more. How comes this thread wasn't started last week as soon as the whilst blew in the Southampton game?, I wil tell you why it's because people always constantly over react with extreme opinions over one result.

Even If Liverpool beat us and Dortmund I would kind of understand the reaction but they drew both games and played well in both admittedly but that doesn't mean they are better than us by any stretch. Just because we lost against Dortmund with a weakened team - how does that mean Liverpool are a better team than us?

Liverpool have more strikers than us and? Why is that seen as a positive when they've scored less goals than us?

Why people worry about other teams in beyond me, look at what we have here ffs, lets not worry about other teams when we are the ones sitting on a pot of gold.

The answer is 'No'. You can close the thread now

As a general rule of thumb I tend to believe a team 17 points ahead of another is the better side.

Liverpool might be improving under Poch but so are we. We are going from strength to strength and are about to finsih them for the 6th time in 7 seasons.

So Liverpool might become a closer rival to us in the next season or two and they might be better equipped for some opponents but we are clearly better than them at the moment.

No they are not why are you choosing 1 match over the course of the season?

Player wise they have some serious issues in defence and have a very unbalanced midfield and an inconsistent keeper. Upfront they are a seriously mixed bag, on his day Sturridge is unplayable I think I Ings was a great sihning, it's still early days for Origi but he seems to be getting a few goals and Bentekke is an odd on. The biggest problem I see for Kloop is getting rid of the overplayed players he has and basically restructuring his defence. I'm still not convinced by Kloop, only time will tell.

Bus-Conductor said:

It's a very valid question.

I think on paper, man for man we are actually quite closely matched, closer than the league position suggests, but they are in the type of transition we were in the season we appointed Pochettino. We played some fucking atrocious and inconsistent stuff last season at times, as Poch struggled without a proper pre season, with some players that didn't suit his system etc. We could see glimmers of promise in games and big pointers in two or three. Just as Liverpool are showing the odd glimmer under Klopp.

Klopp is a very similar manager to Pochettino and is further down the evolutionary career path, has won major league titles etc, I think once Klopp starts tinkering with the squad a little, and they will back him, they do spend and have a higher wage bill than us, has a proper pre-season (the Euros might hopefully hamper that a bit this summer) I don't think there's any doubt that they will become more consistent and will be challenging - with us hopefully - for a top four place.

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One aspect to look at that others always seem to ignore are injuries.

The most valuable thing a player can do is be available to play.

Man for man even if the Liverpool players matched ours they play less frequently due to injury and therefore it matters less.

Klopp seems to be similar to Wenger in that there must be something in his training methods that make players more susceptible to injury as their teams seem constantly plagued by them.

Apply a bit of role reversal;

If we were half way down the table and the Europa League was our only feint chance of getting to the CL and we would have thrown the kitchen sink at Dortmund, like Klopp did.

If Liverpool were within touching distance of winning the League they would have backed off in the Europa League like Poch did.

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piedpiper said:

Noted. Except just as we have become better focused in our recruiting of additions, Klopp too will make the right additions to his squad. The point i am making is we can't be too dismissive of their squad or their manager.

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Won't believe it until I see it. Klopp wasn't running transfers in Dortmund and it's not been made clear whether he's running it in Liverpool either. Not to mention Dortmund's transfer dealings and player management aren't without their blemishes either.

There's nothing to suggest Liverpool will suddenly spend and sell correctly.

With investment in the summer and growing evidence of Klopps influence on their game plan, they could be a real threat next year. And could arguably become better than us next season. That just isn't known. But its silly and naive to scoff at the suggestion that we will have more challengers next year, including Liverpool.