The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 8th July 2016

doctor stefan Freud · Jul 10, 2016

Jesus, this is going to be painful. Was supposed to make brunch an hour ago and I'm still staring at SC, one hand absentmindedly scratching my ding dong while the other hovers over the refresh button. In the living room, hungry children roam like wretched Dickensian urchins. I'm both ashamed and elated, a bit like a heroin user

scat1620 · Jul 10, 2016

kanoute16 said:
“Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they’ve been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It’s an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It’s a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”

Impossible is Tottenham Hotspur FC paying market-rate wages for world class players in 2016.

Syn_13 · Jul 10, 2016

doctor stefan Freud said:
Jesus, this is going to be painful. Was supposed to make brunch an hour ago and I'm still staring at SC, one hand absentmindedly scratching my ding dong while the other hovers over the refresh button. In the living room, hungry children roam like wretched Dickensian urchins. I'm both ashamed and elated, a bit like a heroin user

Please wash your hand before making brunch...

doctor stefan Freud · Jul 10, 2016

Syn_13 said:
Please wash your hand before making brunch...

Too late...

chinaman · Jul 10, 2016

Is this a smokescreen to hide a snag we hit on Janssen?

widmerpool · Jul 10, 2016

Spurs' Pipe Dreams said:
Who'd have thought that 2 years ago we'd have ITK about a world cup winner, world cup final goal scorer coming?

Two years ago we still remembered ITK about a Confederations Cup winner coming. Which turned out to be true.

shelfboy68 · Jul 10, 2016

chinaman said:
Is this a smokescreen to hide a snag we hit on Janssen?

No because gotze isnt a striker he plays the no 10 role so can pull strings as well as score.
I hope this works out would be a great addition to the team and perhaps this is our vdv moment.

Syn_13 · Jul 10, 2016

doctor stefan Freud said:
Too late...

Fish finger sarnies all round?

Trix · Jul 10, 2016

scat1620 said:
Impossible is Tottenham Hotspur FC paying market-rate wages for world class players in 2016.

How much money exactly are all our top players on?

Oh that's right, you haven't got a clue

On top of that what is market rate for a top player? Is it what City, Chelsea or Yanited pay? Perhaps what Bayern pays, or Pool or Dortmund, Athletico? It's all varied and relative, there is no benchmark value.

scat1620 · Jul 10, 2016

Trix said:
How much money exactly are all our top players on?

Oh that's right, you haven't got a clue

On top of that what is market rate for a top player? Is it what City, Chelsea or Yanited pay? Perhaps what Bayern pays, or Pool or Dortmund, Athletico? It's all varied and relative, there is no benchmark value.

Care to fill in the gaps in my ignorance then, Trix? You don't have to go into details about what players actually earn, but if you can persuade me that we have the financial clout to sign players with the reputation of a world star in their prime then I'm all ears. I'm not saying that our previous of signing players who we hope to develop into world stars isn't a good thing given our financial limitations, but if I'm wrong that we haven't got the resources to compete for players who would command the kind of wages that any of the clubs you mention above could offer then I wouldn't say no to hearing why I am wrong.

Over to you.

Trix · Jul 10, 2016

scat1620 said:
Care to fill in the gaps in my ignorance then, Trix? You don't have to go into details about what players actually earn, but if you can persuade me that we have the financial clout to sign players with the reputation of a world star in their prime then I'm all ears. I'm not saying that our previous of signing players who we hope to develop into world stars isn't a good thing given our financial limitations, but if I'm wrong that we haven't got the resources to compete for players who would command the kind of wages that any of the clubs you mention above could offer then I wouldn't say no to hearing why I am wrong.

Over to you.

I like yourself have no idea how much our players are earning, but then I'm not making blanket statements that we can't pay them "market rate". As for could we pay more for individuals? Of course we could, but we have a wage structure that works very well so we don't break it. Something else you have to remember is that the bulk of our players will be getting a boost in wages this year purely because they are playing CL. Like relegation clauses they will also have CL clauses where they gain a boost for being in the elite competition and are paid accordingly. When we are talking about wages some of these teams pay their players that is taken into account, because they are always in the CL.

This isn't a Spurs thing this is a football thing.

scat1620 · Jul 10, 2016

Trix said:
I like yourself have no idea how much our players are earning, but then I'm not making blanket statements that we can't pay them "market rate". As for could we pay more for individuals? Of course we could, but we have a wage structure that works very well so we don't break it. Something else you have to remember is that the bulk of our players will be getting a boost in wages this year purely because they are playing CL. Like relegation clauses they will also have CL clauses where they gain a boost for being in the elite competition and are paid accordingly. When we are talking about wages some of these teams pay their players that is taken into account, because they are always in the CL.

This isn't a Spurs thing this is a football thing.

That's all fair enough and I appreciate the reply, but even if our players are all getting a bump for a season in the CL then I'm still highly skeptical that we would offer wages at the same level that the CL usual suspects would for someone like Gotze and that's why I don't believe we'll sign him or anyone with a similar reputation this summer.

That's not to say we can't be clever with our signings and get brilliant players before they take off (see Bale, Alli, Dier), but I've seen no precedent for us signing people regarded as world stars in the past and I don't see us breaking that trend this summer.

longtimespur · Jul 10, 2016

scat1620 said:
That's all fair enough and I appreciate the reply, but even if our players are all getting a bump for a season in the CL then I'm still highly skeptical that we would offer wages at the same level that the CL usual suspects would for someone like Gotze and that's why I don't believe we'll sign him or anyone with a similar reputation this summer.

That's not to say we can't be clever with our signings and get brilliant players before they take off (see Bale, Alli, Dier), but I've seen no precedent for us signing people regarded as world stars in the past and I don't see us breaking that trend this summer.

VDV???????????

SandroClegane · Jul 10, 2016

scat1620 said:
That's all fair enough and I appreciate the reply, but even if our players are all getting a bump for a season in the CL then I'm still highly skeptical that we would offer wages at the same level that the CL usual suspects would for someone like Gotze and that's why I don't believe we'll sign him or anyone with a similar reputation this summer.

That's not to say we can't be clever with our signings and get brilliant players before they take off (see Bale, Alli, Dier), but I've seen no precedent for us signing people regarded as world stars in the past and I don't see us breaking that trend this summer.

I bet VdV was on massive wages at RM and we brought him in.

ChristianBaler · Jul 10, 2016

longtimespur said:
VDV???????????

Madrid paid 50% of his wages during his first two years at Spurs

Ionman34 · Jul 10, 2016

longtimespur said:
VDV???????????

Klinnsman?

dondo · Jul 10, 2016

longtimespur said:
VDV???????????

As good as he was, he was on his way down and was not fit enough too finish 90 mins week in week out.
If he was still at the top of his game Madrid wouldn't have let him go

SpartanSpur · Jul 10, 2016

Trix said:
I like yourself have no idea how much our players are earning, but then I'm not making blanket statements that we can't pay them "market rate". As for could we pay more for individuals? Of course we could, but we have a wage structure that works very well so we don't break it. Something else you have to remember is that the bulk of our players will be getting a boost in wages this year purely because they are playing CL. Like relegation clauses they will also have CL clauses where they gain a boost for being in the elite competition and are paid accordingly. When we are talking about wages some of these teams pay their players that is taken into account, because they are always in the CL.

This isn't a Spurs thing this is a football thing.

In fairness to @scat1620 these recent annual wage bills are quite telling

Spurs 110m
Liverpool 150m
Goons 192m
City 193m
Utd 203m
Chelsea 215m

Newcastle I believe got relegated with 78m, closer to us than we are to Liverpool.

I fully agree with you that he was being far to blunt but I'm pretty sure that was for effect.

We have a much better team than our wage budget suggests/deserves (until the new stadium), but this is where that can bite us up the arse when trying to improve on that IMHO.

shelfboy68 · Jul 10, 2016

Really hope we can pull this off we could do with the extra quality within the squad and will help to unlock tight defences.
Although developing and bringing through our own is important if genuine class is available and do able we should try to add it, hope levy, poch can get this done.

Trix · Jul 10, 2016

SpartanSpur said:
In fairness to @scat1620 these recent annual wage bills are quite telling

Spurs 110m
Liverpool 150m
Goons 192m
City 193m
Utd 203m
Chelsea 215m

Newcastle I believe got relegated with 78m, closer to us than we are to Liverpool.

I fully agree with you that he was being far to blunt but I'm pretty sure that was for effect.

We have a much better team than our wage budget suggests/deserves (until the new stadium), but this is where that can bite us up the arse when trying to improve on that IMHO.

Oh I don't dispute that other Prem teams spend far more in wages than we do. That however does not mean we are unable to pay top players the "market rate", because there is no market rate. Players nowadays are not paid by how good they are or what they have achieved. Milner for example is on £150k a week(according to reports) Sakho and Henderson on 100k a week as well. They are not top class players, so do they set the bench mark for solid Premier league players? As I said in a previous post we pay more than these top class players would get at most top foreign clubs, even though they would get more if they went to Chelsea for example. That is my point there is no market rate, because in the same way as transfers. The players are only worth what the buying club is willing to pay. They are worth more to some teams than they are to others.

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