Will we win a trophy under Poch?

Bobbins said:

There were plenty of fans last night who literally said they wanted to lose to get out of the cup.

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So they paid money to go and watch us lose?
Or was this after the game when they were a bit gutted? The old "i didn't fancy you anyway you lesbo" answer?

What I take from last night is that as a group we don't live the the Bill Walsh philosophy - the score will take care of itself if everything you do as an organisation is fully professional. Clearly we are not there yet, at least in the whole squad and to win trophies we will need to use the whole squad.
Right now I see us as Graeme Hick, loads of talent, very easy on the eye but not proper top level winners. Like him we got in then threw away our wicket too easily.

Lilbaz said:

We shouldn't be giving a half arsed effort in any games.

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No but we did yesterday, thought we could coast for 90 mins against a wounded animal.

DEFchenkOE said:

No but we did yesterday, thought we could coast for 90 mins against a wounded animal.

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Yes and we have done it in league matches too.
That is what needs to change.

Lilbaz said:

So they paid money to go and watch us lose?
Or was this after the game when they were a bit gutted? The old "i didn't fancy you anyway you lesbo" answer?

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It was on here, before, during and after the game.

Personally think everybody has twisted Poch's comments regarding the domestic cups. His point isn't that he doesn't value them or wouldn't want to win them, but that really in the larger scale of things they don't really count for all that much. It's only winning leagues or CLs that makes people sit up and take notice. He'd love to win them, for the benefit it would give the players and the fans, but no one will care two hoots about League or FA Cup wins that far down the line. We're a club seriously looking to go at it in four competitions, you have to rotate your squad, and sometimes that may mean we don't go all the way.

Bobbins said:

It was on here, before, during and after the game.

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I don't remember anyone saying they wanted us to lose before the game. If they did it was a minority.

DEFchenkOE said:

No but we did yesterday, thought we could coast for 90 mins against a wounded animal.

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Isn't an animal sometimes at its most dangerous when it's been wounded or cornered?

Bloody hope not!

The league cup is a major pain in the arse. The schedule really doesn’t line up with a team that wants to challenge in Europe or in the league. Does no one remember the year we made the final and had to sandwich it between two games against Florentina?

Yeah, it’d be great to win it, but no one really takes it serious until you make the semis, sometimes even the final.

We will be in the mix for the title again this year, we may even go on a run in the CL. We have bigger fish to fry, and you have to pick your fights sometimes.

hopefully we will, but winning the Carabao Cup isn't going to help pay for our stadium, and to be honest with the turnout in supporters last night, doubt the players felt it important either.

Unless we go on to win something this season - then i may start to have doubts as to whether Poch will deliver silverware - Not sure losing in any cup Competition is a good thing unless something bigger is delivered instead - Nor am i sure when we go so above ourselves we can belittle this cup competition as meaningless. I am sure most clubs would love to win bigger major trophies too but when you haven't won fuck all for years, anywhere Silverware would be a good start imo.

riggi said:

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Bloody hope not!

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tbh i can't remember who won the league cup and fa cup in the last 5 years...

Navin R Johnson said:

I get pretty angry at the muppets who dismiss anything other than PL and CL, take away the "smaller" cups and we don't have too much to boast about, they are part of our history, part of Tottenham Hotspur.

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It smells lovely to stand next to Scarlett Johansson, but you miss a lot of action holding her coat

riggi said:

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Bloody hope not!

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Yeah coz everyone doesn’t bang on about that Newcastle side all the fucking time

Lilbaz said:

I don't remember anyone saying they wanted us to lose before the game. If they did it was a minority.

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I saw it several times, before, during and after. And even if it was a monitory that doesn't make it ok?

In reality though the small number of people saying they wanted to go out are only one step along from the very large number of people now saying "on the bright side it's one less cup to worry about".

You get the impression some of these people would prefer it if we just withdrew from the domestic cups before the even kick off, just to make sure they don't interfere with our attempts to finish in the top four, like they're some kind of inconvenience.

coy-spurs1882 said:

tbh i can't remember who won the league cup and fa cup in the last 5 years...

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I know united won the LC last year, but off the top of my head couldn't tell you who won that cup the year before, or before that

riggi said:

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Bloody hope not!

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That guy is a City fan.

We will win a trophy and it will be all the more sweeter than any of their success as we haven't had financial doping to get there. No one cares when City win a trophy. Their two league titles are most known for the narrative of two teams bottling it - Utd in 2012 and Liverpool in 2014.

But back to us. We aren't big enough to turn our noses up at a competition and we aren't good enough to brush it off saying 'bigger things to fry'. For all our excellent league progress in the last two years to get to a point where we can challenge and overachieve per our constraints, we've not been top of the league at any point. We're always playing catch up. And we probably will fall short this season too.

Statistics have given us a great marker of progress since Poch has come. But ultimately it's just numbers. No one can take a trophy away from us.

We have the FA Cup as a realistic chance. Lets get it done and go to the new stadium with a pot in the cabinet. We need to end this drought and these players have to experience real success.

coy-spurs1882 said:

tbh i can't remember who won the league cup and fa cup in the last 5 years...

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It doesn't matter though. When you do a stadium tour and go to the trophy cabinet you want to see a wall of Silver wear. I know that's simplifying it somewhat but you get my point!

Also there's the winning mentality that goes with it. I really think this team and especially poch needs to win something to open up the floodgates.

Let's not become arsenal.

I'd bloody love the europa cup.

nicdic said:

Personally think everybody has twisted Poch's comments regarding the domestic cups. His point isn't that he doesn't value them or wouldn't want to win them, but that really in the larger scale of things they don't really count for all that much. It's only winning leagues or CLs that makes people sit up and take notice. He'd love to win them, for the benefit it would give the players and the fans, but no one will care two hoots about League or FA Cup wins that far down the line. We're a club seriously looking to go at it in four competitions, you have to rotate your squad, and sometimes that may mean we don't go all the way.

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I know what he's saying, but the rest of that post is bollocks. Saying "no-one will care two hoots about cup wins down the line" is the exact 100% opposite of the truth.

The only thing which will show in the record books, which will inspire future generations and which will form part of the rich history of the club, is winning trophies. It's the top four finishes and the CL knockout stage exits that won't be recorded, that no-one will remember, that no-one will give two hoots about.

Everyone knows Poch is prioritising the League and CL and that's perfectly understandable given they are the tougher games and bigger rewards. The problem isn't the relative weighting of importance - it's the history of writing the domestic cups off completely, and the attitude of some fans that 1, the cups aren't important in any way and 2, that they're actually somehow an inconvenience to us because we're trying to win bigger pots.

The hubris of this thinking is astonishing - our recent history shows that we have won absolutely fuck all! We are not United, Chelsea or Arsenal, who can justifiably say they have a recent history of winning these cups and so can be excused in saying they're now pushing for the bigger targets. We can't just suddenly decide we're an uber club who are too big for the cups - we're not.

We're not going to win the league. We're definitely not going to win the CL. We do need to keep finishing in the top four for a variety of reasons. We should be looking at the domestic cups as the perfect platforms to achieve real success, and to launch the club into this new era of becoming a true uber club. We can afford to win the precisely because we're not going to win the other prizes. We can win them without damaging our top four hopes. We can win them because the fans have been suffering for years watching our rivals win everything. We can win them to get our players some damn medals and to get rid of the millstone around our necks that says you'll never win anything with Tottenham.

We are not the massive club some people (including Poch) seem to think we are - not yet - and the domestic cups are not below us, as some people seem to think.