A game without Sissoko

ohh_when_the_spurs said:

To be honest now we have Moura i cant see him getting many minutes

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Nebby said:

I'm afraid the OP has missed the point entirely.

Last night's performance didn't highlight the weaknesses of Sissoko, it did the complete opposite. It proves just how valuable he is to the team and to Poch.

No Sissoko means Lamela gets rushed back to soon. No Sissoko means Wanyama gets rushed back to soon. No Sissoko means Dembele and Eriksen don't get a break every now and then. And boy did they benefit from that last night.

Our midfield is stretched, with two players still recovering after longterm injuries, Dembele needing regular rest because of his well documented hip problems and Winks now out injured too. And now we're going into squeaky bum territory.

So thank fuck for Sissoko. He plays were he's told, he keeps himself in tip-top shape, and he doesn't seem to mind his role within the squad as a supporting player. He knows that when everyone is fit, he's back on the bench or watching from the stands. And when that happens I bet he won't be giving Poch a moment of grief in training. He's a solid pro who just gets on with the job.

He may have his limitations technically, but so what. I'm sure we'd all love a Zidane in the squad, but sometimes what you actually need is a Deschamps.

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BringBack_leGin said:

Eloquent? Really? You have low standards.

Can’t you see that it isn’t disagreement in his opinion that brings him flack, it’s fhe fact that he chose what should be a very positive and dally moment to deliver hate and negativity. Had he created this thread after a loss during which Sissoko has played badly, the reaction would have been different. He could have even just made his point in the Sissoko thread. Last night people wanted to enjoy a great night having just dominated a team who not so long ago fished out two defeats a season.

It’s not intellectual or creative to use a great team performance as an opportunity to have a thinly veiled pop at a player we all already know is poor, it’s just childish, pointless and inflammatory. If you like that sort of thing, listen to Adrian Durham.



Good point, well made.

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BringBack_leGin said:

@Lufti fancy making your point in writing or are you just going to childishly throw around ‘doh’ ratings?

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Lufti said:

As you asked so nicely... first d’oh was for the horrendously unfunny post. Second d’oh was for the low standards comment painting yourself as being better than others. Happy?

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Phomesy said:

Because Moura plays a similar role to Sissoko does he?

Swear to God half Spurs fans don't watch or understand how Poch sets us up.




It's just incredible that some Spurs fail to understand this.

It's not like Poch hasn't repeatedly stated this very thing!

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BringBack_leGin said:

I didn’t paint myself as better than anyone, if you inferred that then that’s your insecurity to deal with and frankly I couldn’t care less. Though now you mention it, I may not be better than others but I am better than you

Oh and I am happy, thanks for asking. Especially as I’m partaking in my favourite hobby, being anal on forums.

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Hazardousman said:

If you consider what he posted “hate and negativity” then I honestly would suggest you get some thicker skin, either that or we must have a different definition of “hate and negativity.”

From what I read the OP was just making a relevant point based on what he had seen in this game and the difference as a team without Sissoko, it didn’t need it’s own thread but it wasn’t “hate or negativity” by any stretch of the imagination.

It is perceived that way because people think after a big win all we should be talking about is how great we were, like I said, in a way, the op was saying we played very well just by making this thread because he had seen the improvement of the team without Sissoko in it.

In my opinion he is getting flack because some people don’t like ANY criticism levelled at a player because they are blinded by what can only be considered to be tribalism, if a player plays for Spurs then he should never be criticised, especially after a big win without him, that’s the worst possible time because it just challenges individuals confirmation bias and that’s something people dislike more than anything let’s face it.

It happened with Adebayor and even Tim Sherwood, once people dig in on their opinions they refuse to change them, it’s a sign of emotional immaturity more than anything else.

Also, some people just like a good witch hunt on here and any excuse to get the knives out on posters that aren’t doing anything but living in a constant state of optimistic delirium should be ostricated, it reminds me of so many these days that hate their ideas being criticised or challenged, living in a little safe bubble away from harm or threat.

I love my views being challenged and I love being proven wrong, everyone ripped me to shreds for my Poch thread and whilst some of what I said was accurate I think I was rightfully criticised for some of my statements as they were ludicrous and it’s from things like that you grow, if you are never willing to self-reflect you will never learn a damn thing, but again, my annoyance at the time was the outrage and mob mentality more than anything else and it’s the same thing I am witnessing in here essentially.

Sorry but I don’t believe for one second the reaction would have been different, people would have said “You can’t just blame one player” “How is it Sissokos fault that our whole team played shit?” past criticisms of him have shown that some posters just can’t stomach the idea that one of our players is being met with justified criticism for how he upsets the balance of our team.

I have no problem with Sissoko, I think he works hard and he is probably a decent human being, that doesn’t mean he is an asset to this football club or that he should play for us, people need to stop being so sensitive when people criticise a player, fucking hell, what do you think managers do when players are underperforming? Do you think Poch comes in after the United game and says “right lads, we have won this game now, I don’t want to talk about anything other than how good of a result this is”

The first thing he is likely to do is look back at what we could have done better, I know this to be the case because I know Poch wants to be a winner and I get the feeling he isn’t satisfied when we score 1 or 2 goals, he hates when we concede (I know we didn’t against United) he analyses everything like every top manager should, that doesn’t mean he is free from fault but it does mean that if he had the mentality of some on here from both sides of the extreme reactions we would be far worse off than we are now.

He could have made his point in the Sissoko thread I agree, I fail to see how his post would have ruined people’s enjoyment of last nights match though?

Did he force people to come in and read this thread? Did he force people to type a response?

I would say that if this post ruined your enjoyment of that match last night then the OP and his thread isn’t the problem.

As for the final paragraph of your post, I don’t see how any of that applies to the OP and conflating him with Adrian Durham is hyperbole at it’s finest.

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thehipster said:

Poch has been blinded by some crusade to prove everyone right about Sissoko, but at the detriment of the way we play best.

Sissoko has great endeavour and purpose, but his skill levels are simply not up to the standard of our 'A' game.

Surely Poch has to see this now.

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Hazardousman said:

In my opinion he is getting flack because some people don’t like ANY criticism levelled at a player because they are blinded by what can only be considered to be tribalism

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Hazardousman said:

It happened with Adebayor and even Tim Sherwood, once people dig in on their opinions they refuse to change them, it’s a sign of emotional immaturity more than anything else.

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BringBack_leGin said:

I’ve just now got home from the match and all I could think the entire way was ‘god, we looked so much better without Sissoko’. I didn’t even take a moment to appreciate Eriksen’s brilliance, or reflect on a dominant display from Dembele, I just spent the entire journey repeating to myself ‘no no Sissoko, no no Sissoko, no no Sissoko’ and revelling in the fact that he didn’t start tonight. I almost forgot the score line, or who we were even playing, so happy was I at the lack of Sissoko.

Fuck Sissoko! Come On You NoSissokos!!!!

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ohh_when_the_spurs said:

Sissoko sometimes plays in the 3 behind Kane.........how can you not see this?

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Hazardousman said:

If you consider what he posted “hate and negativity” then I honestly would suggest you get some thicker skin, either that or we must have a different definition of “hate and negativity.”

From what I read the OP was just making a relevant point based on what he had seen in this game and the difference as a team without Sissoko, it didn’t need it’s own thread but it wasn’t “hate or negativity” by any stretch of the imagination.

It is perceived that way because people think after a big win all we should be talking about is how great we were, like I said, in a way, the op was saying we played very well just by making this thread because he had seen the improvement of the team without Sissoko in it.

In my opinion he is getting flack because some people don’t like ANY criticism levelled at a player because they are blinded by what can only be considered to be tribalism, if a player plays for Spurs then he should never be criticised, especially after a big win without him, that’s the worst possible time because it just challenges individuals confirmation bias and that’s something people dislike more than anything let’s face it.

It happened with Adebayor and even Tim Sherwood, once people dig in on their opinions they refuse to change them, it’s a sign of emotional immaturity more than anything else.

Also, some people just like a good witch hunt on here and any excuse to get the knives out on posters that aren’t doing anything but living in a constant state of optimistic delirium should be ostricated, it reminds me of so many these days that hate their ideas being criticised or challenged, living in a little safe bubble away from harm or threat.

I love my views being challenged and I love being proven wrong, everyone ripped me to shreds for my Poch thread and whilst some of what I said was accurate I think I was rightfully criticised for some of my statements as they were ludicrous and it’s from things like that you grow, if you are never willing to self-reflect you will never learn a damn thing, but again, my annoyance at the time was the outrage and mob mentality more than anything else and it’s the same thing I am witnessing in here essentially.

Sorry but I don’t believe for one second the reaction would have been different, people would have said “You can’t just blame one player” “How is it Sissokos fault that our whole team played shit?” past criticisms of him have shown that some posters just can’t stomach the idea that one of our players is being met with justified criticism for how he upsets the balance of our team.

I have no problem with Sissoko, I think he works hard and he is probably a decent human being, that doesn’t mean he is an asset to this football club or that he should play for us, people need to stop being so sensitive when people criticise a player, fucking hell, what do you think managers do when players are underperforming? Do you think Poch comes in after the United game and says “right lads, we have won this game now, I don’t want to talk about anything other than how good of a result this is”

The first thing he is likely to do is look back at what we could have done better, I know this to be the case because I know Poch wants to be a winner and I get the feeling he isn’t satisfied when we score 1 or 2 goals, he hates when we concede (I know we didn’t against United) he analyses everything like every top manager should, that doesn’t mean he is free from fault but it does mean that if he had the mentality of some on here from both sides of the extreme reactions we would be far worse off than we are now.

He could have made his point in the Sissoko thread I agree, I fail to see how his post would have ruined people’s enjoyment of last nights match though?

Did he force people to come in and read this thread? Did he force people to type a response?

I would say that if this post ruined your enjoyment of that match last night then the OP and his thread isn’t the problem.

As for the final paragraph of your post, I don’t see how any of that applies to the OP and conflating him with Adrian Durham is hyperbole at it’s finest.

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BringBack_leGin said:

I’ll be honest, I think we are too far apart in our overall opinions to make debating the point worthwhile (plus I really should do some work st some point), but I have read your post, agree with some parts, disagree with others and appreciate you taking the effort to provide an argument based in a logic and, more importantly, objectivity.

I will address one thing, my enjoyment wasn’t affected by the OP, nor do I think anyone else’s was, and I’ll be honest I only intended to post the once with my sarcastic attempt at humour (which I accepted might not be universally enjoyed). I don’t overly have a problem with the OP in fact and agree with it in part, I just don’t think it’s fair to say posters have ‘herd mentality’ or ‘cult like attitudes’ because of their reactions, that generalisation is quite insulting to anyone who tried to be erudite and objective (as you have been in the post I’m currently quoting).

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Gb160 said:

Its not true, he's getting flack because he started an attention seeking thread, what he posted isn't original or thought provoking, its all been covered in the player thread, which is where this should be....no one would've given two shits if he'd posted it in there, its full of this type of 'view'.

You're right, Poch even alluded to this very subject last week.

I think you're only leaping to this guys defence like a hero because you happen to subscribe to his view mate.

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Nebby said:

I'm afraid the OP has missed the point entirely.

Last night's performance didn't highlight the weaknesses of Sissoko, it did the complete opposite. It proves just how valuable he is to the team and to Poch.

No Sissoko means Lamela gets rushed back to soon. No Sissoko means Wanyama gets rushed back to soon. No Sissoko means Dembele and Eriksen don't get a break every now and then. And boy did they benefit from that last night.

Our midfield is stretched, with two players still recovering after longterm injuries, Dembele needing regular rest because of his well documented hip problems and Winks now out injured too. And now we're going into squeaky bum territory.

So thank fuck for Sissoko. He plays were he's told, he keeps himself in tip-top shape, and he doesn't seem to mind his role within the squad as a supporting player. He knows that when everyone is fit, he's back on the bench or watching from the stands. And when that happens I bet he won't be giving Poch a moment of grief in training. He's a solid pro who just gets on with the job.

He may have his limitations technically, but so what. I'm sure we'd all love a Zidane in the squad, but sometimes what you actually need is a Deschamps.

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Bus-Conductor said:

If there was no Sissoko, our beloved head coach might have been forced into doing something innovative like playing Onomah as a CM or even Lesniak or Amos, or Skip or Marsh. And instead of using Sissoko to cover Lamela he might have been forced to use Edwards. None of these options would have been any less of a disaster and not only could it have saved us 45m, it might actually have earned us a few million.

If we can't produce a kid, after 10 years of some of the best coaching this country has to offer (including Pochettino's), to keep himself in tip top shape and be technically mediocre at CM/AM then we might as well close the academy now.

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