The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - DEADLINE DAY 31st August 2021

ajspurs · Sep 1, 2021

Appreciate the info Herc.

I personally just don't have the energy for the negativity and dread at the moment, I'll wait and see how the season pans out and what sort of business we end up doing without having to shift so much deadwood beforehand first. Yes it seems like the same old shit, but it was Paratici's first window with circumstances that are far from normal so I'm going to wait and see how we build on the platform that we seem to have built from this window and hope we can achieve a much more rounded look to the squad.

Hoopspur · Sep 1, 2021

Hercules said:
Alrighty, here we go.

Our DoF was given a budget, which he performed miracles, and kept well within. Basically near net-spend, without getting tied down on exact figures. If you take time to calculate our signings, they were basically ‘loans’ in essence. Yes! There are ‘Options/Obligations’. So not much spent.

Our DoF took on his role, as he was assured DL would not interfere once given his budget. The only time he would is if we were likely to exceed it. The financial department, and DL would sign off.

I said privately our DoF requested the help of Mendez on certain deals , more to assist the selling club, but also us. And I will not divulge beyond that. Around three weeks ago we started to make moves for Traoré, but for this to happen Mendez had to get a ‘mandate’ to assist. This was known privately, even before the media got wind of it.

The player himself made it known to Wolves, he wanted to join us. Liverpool were interested, but knocked back. We offered a derisory sum to Wolves. This at the interference of DL, who did not like the sound of ‘cash’ in any form, though spread out over term of his contract. He then suggested we do ‘Loan with option’ and insulting offer. He then offered ‘obligation’ but same offer. The initial down payment was a joke.

His view was ‘Traoré has around just under two years left’ and feel it was bad business to offer what Wolves wanted. Traoré told Wolves he would not be signing a new contract. Tuesday agreement was reached we would as good as meet their valuation, based upon realistic incentives, which was relayed they would accept. A meeting was held by DL and those involved, and he was not happy to sanction such an outlay. And argued on Stevie, Lucas, Gil, Lucas as ‘just as good’ and better. And we should use them in the mid-term.

There is/was money for a ‘special purchase’ and was being saved for the striker department. Nuno viewed Traoré as the ideal player to fulfil various roles, and create space etc, for our ‘capabilities to create goal scoring opportunities for players like Dele, Kane, Lucas, Gil, Son, GLC’

It was viewed that we need to cover this area, seeing we failed to bring in a striker, even on loan. We also tried for Neves lol.

I will be surprised if Paratici is here at the end of his contract, and already clubs over here looking at him. If you really believe Nuno will work under these conditions beyond his remit (2 years) we are wrong. Same reasons why he left Wolves

My conclusion is Mr Daniel Levy cannot let go, cannot grip himself. And Paratici is no glove puppet. For all of us very long-suffering supporters, I feel for us, because our club is a drug in our veins. COYS

I’m sorry Herc, but was Traore the only way we could take our whole squad/team/club forward? Sorry to be so direct and so you really do not need to answer this as it’s a question thrown out into space.

We have heard of many players this window that may increase the quality or satisfy needs. We have not taken these forward as far as I can see. Does the same thing apply to all of these?

I’m sorry you have received the brunt of my frustrations. I should be addressing these to the club but there is no obvious and public way. Maybe someone, somewhere may well read this - for once?

Trent Crimm · Sep 1, 2021

Levy’s football depth

“have you seen how far Harry Winks runs”

dtxspurs · Sep 1, 2021

Univarn said:
I know everyone is committing seppuku over this update but I'm fine dying on the hill of I see nothing wrong with what Levy did here.

Yeah.. he gave a budget and asked them to stick to it. We spent more than I expected we were going to and got better players in than I had originally expected so I'm pretty happy. No backup striker is my only gripe. I have zero issue with not sanctioning over 40 mil for Traore. That is silly money and something we would ridicule Arsenal for doing.

I think Fabio will be fine understanding that it was an odd year with no revenue and hopefully a bit more to spend next year.

We shelled out 64mil in transfers plus Bale loan last year.

This year (counting Romero) we spent out like 115mil.

Univarn · Sep 1, 2021

Hercules said:
Why?

I'll caveat, a lot of that is I don't think Nuno has ever been likely to stay long anyways. Nor do I particularly rate Traore's overall game but here's my general reasoning:

We got lucky we got a fee for Sissoko and Hart. Lamela we dumped his wages in trade for Gil. Toby went for pennies. Aurier literally we tore up his contract. Eriksen rode his down and left for a fraction of his worth at the time relative to his importance to Spurs. Kane may well ride his down now to get a dream move. Lucas we'll probably have to let go for free in due course. NDombele we can't get rid. GLC can't stay fit. Sessegnon is maybe just now an outside chance at being a backup when we paid starter money.

We have become kings of vacuuming up non-transferable talent in recent years. Talent that was either aging faster than we could replace or specifically problematic in a way that the odds of them succeeding are small and the odds them being sellable in the future nearly zero. Some of that is bad luck pandemic but definitely not all.

Our remit this summer clearly included younger players with cheaper contracts and better sell on prospects or to build a new team around. Emerson, Sarr, and Gil clearly meet this. Romero was our reach player before the Traore deal came up. Traore for all his skill would clearly have a high percentage chance, especially on a near club record fee, of falling into the same category.

If Levy hasn't learned from all of that he's a fool. If he sees those who report to him about to do something he believes is not in the interest of the club he has a duty to intervene. Especially if they were testing the upper band of the budget he allocated to them. Yes we always say "back the manager" and "back the DOF" but that always comes with managerial oversight error brackets. I think in this case he was right to intervene. Onions and all that.

jolsnogross · Sep 1, 2021

Jamturk said:
Then Levy is a fool, probably thinks the Kane saga has strengthened him more than it really has.

He's on thin ice and is a few bad results away from a very discontented fanbase turning on him again.

Then he's not on thin ice at all. When it's only the ups and downs of results that leads to discontent and "fan protest" against a chairman, it's a joke. Same at United, a shiny signing and a couple of results and all the mismanagement of the club is forgotten.

These guys have huge egos and enjoy being in the scene. The oligarchs as well. Even when they try to blow it all up with a stitched up super league, the sanctions for their hubris are a joke. And fans keep showing up, "discontented" or not.

Levy and Lewis own the club and will run it as they wish. And that will always include Levys footballing judgement, no matter how much the weight of evidence that his football insight is crap. And there's always another paratici or nuno for hire if they walk away.

Scissors&Tape · Sep 1, 2021

What is the etiquette when one ITK says something different than another ITK? Is pointing out the discrepancy considered a challenge to one or both of the ITKs, and thus a bannable offense?

Asking for a friend.

Timberwolf · Sep 1, 2021

I can live with us not signing Traore, but Paratici has been a breath of fresh air and I think it could be disastrous is Levy forces him out.

I think we'll really him in charge of transfers next summer if we want any chance of pushing on. How long is his contract currently?

Trent Crimm · Sep 1, 2021

Levy trying to sell Harry Winks “30m and your 1st born son please”.

Levy trying to buy Harry Winks “ I’ll give you an old Ford I’ve had sitting outside, some sell by date Stella and a bottle Brut aftershave, 1978 vintage”

Hotspur88 · Sep 1, 2021

Wow that was a depressing read ??‍

the lad · Sep 1, 2021

Univarn said:
I'll caveat, a lot of that is I don't think Nuno has ever been likely to stay long anyways. Nor do I particularly rate Traore's overall game but here's my general reasoning:

We got lucky we got a fee for Sissoko and Hart. Lamela we dumped his wages in trade for Gil. Toby went for pennies. Aurier literally we tore up his contract. Eriksen rode his down and left for a fraction of his worth at the time relative to his importance to Spurs. Kane may well ride his down now to get a dream move. Lucas we'll probably have to let go for free in due course. NDombele we can't get rid. GLC can't stay fit. Sessegnon is maybe just now an outside chance at being a backup when we paid starter money.

We have become kings of vacuuming up non-transferable talent in recent years. Talent that was either aging faster than we could replace or specifically problematic in a way that the odds of them succeeding are small and the odds them being sellable in the future nearly zero. Some of that is bad luck pandemic but definitely not all.

Our remit this summer clearly included younger players with cheaper contracts and better sell on prospects or to build a new team around. Emerson, Sarr, and Gil clearly meet this. Romero was our reach player before the Traore deal came up. Traore for all his skill would clearly have a high percentage chance, especially on a near club record fee, of falling into the same category.

If Levy hasn't learned from all of that he's a fool. If he sees those who report to him about to do something he believes is not in the interest of the club he has a duty to intervene. Especially if they were testing the upper band of the budget he allocated to them. Yes we always say "back the manager" and "back the DOF" but that always comes with managerial oversight error brackets. I think in this case he was right to intervene. Onions and all that.

Great post, Levy is an utter fool when it comes to the playing side of the “business he is no fool in the estate agency and property development side of the business.

MR_BEN · Sep 1, 2021

Univarn said:
I'll caveat, a lot of that is I don't think Nuno has ever been likely to stay long anyways. Nor do I particularly rate Traore's overall game but here's my general reasoning:

We got lucky we got a fee for Sissoko and Hart. Lamela we dumped his wages in trade for Gil. Toby went for pennies. Aurier literally we tore up his contract. Eriksen rode his down and left for a fraction of his worth at the time relative to his importance to Spurs. Kane may well ride his down now to get a dream move. Lucas we'll probably have to let go for free in due course. NDombele we can't get rid. GLC can't stay fit. Sessegnon is maybe just now an outside chance at being a backup when we paid starter money.

We have become kings of vacuuming up non-transferable talent in recent years. Talent that was either aging faster than we could replace or specifically problematic in a way that the odds of them succeeding are small and the odds them being sellable in the future nearly zero. Some of that is bad luck pandemic but definitely not all.

Our remit this summer clearly included younger players with cheaper contracts and better sell on prospects or to build a new team around. Emerson, Sarr, and Gil clearly meet this. Romero was our reach player before the Traore deal came up. Traore for all his skill would clearly have a high percentage chance, especially on a near club record fee, of falling into the same category.

If Levy hasn't learned from all of that he's a fool. If he sees those who report to him about to do something he believes is not in the interest of the club he has a duty to intervene. Especially if they were testing the upper band of the budget he allocated to them. Yes we always say "back the manager" and "back the DOF" but that always comes with managerial oversight error brackets. I think in this case he was right to intervene. Onions and all that.

100% this.

Tucker · Sep 1, 2021

Scissors&Tape said:
What is the etiquette when one ITK says something different than another ITK? Is pointing out the discrepancy considered a challenge to one or both of the ITKs, and thus a bannable offense?

Asking for a friend.

JJ said himself last night that people get information from different sources and thus get different angles on things.

People need to realise that the people like Trix Herc and JJ etc are just passing on what they’ve heard in good faith. Sometimes what people hear is second or even third hand info, sometimes it’s first hand stuff. Some will be closer to what’s happening and others will be hearing from someone who’s heard about it from someone else.

You’re best bet is to take any info with a pinch of salt, not because the guys are making stuff up, but because information will always be different depending on which end it’s coming from.

Look at the Kane saga, City’s itks we’re adamant that they’d get it done; Trix heard from their end that it was close, while others like Dragon were hearing the exact opposite.

Just take whatever is shared at face value, don’t think of it as something that’s written in stone. It’s gossip at the end of the day, we all love hearing it and we all love gossiping about it ourselves.

Cochise · Sep 1, 2021

Fucking hell that's not what I wanted to read. Lets hope that come the January window we aren't looking too silly thanks to DL.

Twizzle · Sep 1, 2021

wow, a DOF not getting on with Levy ? there's a shock

Thanks to all the ITKs, great job, and it's much appreciated.

bigpalacios · Sep 1, 2021

The thing that pisses me off his that he evaluates players abilty when he isnt qualified to do so. Its not up to him to say this player is a good as that player, he fucking businessman.
This where a lot the problems reside when he deems certain squads to be capable to get Champions League. We got Champions League because of Pochettino and it isnt going to happen with the same ammount of investment that took, its going to take more and he just cant see it.

Blue · Sep 1, 2021

Hercules said:
Alrighty, here we go.

Our DoF was given a budget, which he performed miracles, and kept well within. Basically near net-spend, without getting tied down on exact figures. If you take time to calculate our signings, they were basically ‘loans’ in essence. Yes! There are ‘Options/Obligations’. So not much spent.

Our DoF took on his role, as he was assured DL would not interfere once given his budget. The only time he would is if we were likely to exceed it. The financial department, and DL would sign off.

I said privately our DoF requested the help of Mendez on certain deals , more to assist the selling club, but also us. And I will not divulge beyond that. Around three weeks ago we started to make moves for Traoré, but for this to happen Mendez had to get a ‘mandate’ to assist. This was known privately, even before the media got wind of it.

The player himself made it known to Wolves, he wanted to join us. Liverpool were interested, but knocked back. We offered a derisory sum to Wolves. This at the interference of DL, who did not like the sound of ‘cash’ in any form, though spread out over term of his contract. He then suggested we do ‘Loan with option’ and insulting offer. He then offered ‘obligation’ but same offer. The initial down payment was a joke.

His view was ‘Traoré has around just under two years left’ and feel it was bad business to offer what Wolves wanted. Traoré told Wolves he would not be signing a new contract. Tuesday agreement was reached we would as good as meet their valuation, based upon realistic incentives, which was relayed they would accept. A meeting was held by DL and those involved, and he was not happy to sanction such an outlay. And argued on Stevie, Lucas, Gil, Lucas as ‘just as good’ and better. And we should use them in the mid-term.

There is/was money for a ‘special purchase’ and was being saved for the striker department. Nuno viewed Traoré as the ideal player to fulfil various roles, and create space etc, for our ‘capabilities to create goal scoring opportunities for players like Dele, Kane, Lucas, Gil, Son, GLC’

It was viewed that we need to cover this area, seeing we failed to bring in a striker, even on loan. We also tried for Neves lol.

I will be surprised if Paratici is here at the end of his contract, and already clubs over here looking at him. If you really believe Nuno will work under these conditions beyond his remit (2 years) we are wrong. Same reasons why he left Wolves

My conclusion is Mr Daniel Levy cannot let go, cannot grip himself. And Paratici is no glove puppet. For all of us very long-suffering supporters, I feel for us, because our club is a drug in our veins. COYS

sauron itk:

one chairman to rule them all,
one chairman to find them,
one chairman to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them;
in the land of ENIC were the shadows lie.

greavesy461 · Sep 1, 2021

I’m with a few others. I don’t see much of a problem to be honest. Sounds like Traore was over budget and chairman made a call that it wasn’t worth it. Who here hasn’t had to live with your boss making a different decision to the one you’d suggested. Nuno and Paratici have only been here a few months. If they throw their toys out of the pram over this I think they need to toughen up. We had a decent window now let’s see what actual COACHING can accomplish with some players that under-performed last year and the new additions. COYS.

Lukasz · Sep 1, 2021

I have posted this almost three months ago:

„Sadly nothing will change until we are bought by a suggar daddy willing to playfully spent some big bucks in one transfer window. Under ENIC it will be the same story year after year after year.”

As usual got excited by promising itk and as usual left hugely disappointed on the 1st of September.
Time to curb our expectations for the season. Top 4 is a pipe dream.

easley91 · Sep 1, 2021

I might be half asleep and so apologies I may re-read it with a clearer mind tomorrow. But initial thoughts are Levy was going to get involved if we went over budget, and it seemed like to me Traore was over that budget and so he stepped in. Also, there were plenty of people on here who were against Traore for that amount of money (even at the mooted £40m fee at first). I know Levy has his faults, but if he only got involved re Traore and Kane, I'm not going to be that angry over it.

And sounds like, if true, Nuno preferred Traore over any strikers and put all his eggs in that basket.

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