►►►►►► Match Ratings VS Blackburn Rovers ◄◄◄◄◄◄

[StartingPrice]

Doesn't he have our highest assists (or prob highest per game played) this season , in any case? what's not to like? (Yes, he could be better, but he's pretty damn good already.)

? He runs like a constipated penguin looking for an empty cublicle?

 

[StartingPrice]

That was me agreeing with you, btw, SP - before we get into one of those 'But I didn't say that' type discussions ...

But I didn't say...you weren't disagreeing with me...

 

[Legend10]

Whilst we're on the subject of Lennon it's interesting that Gary Neville who I've personally found to be an excellent analyst on Sky (light years ahead of anybody else they've had) say how much we've missed Lennon when he's been out of the side, which to my mind we clearly have!

Also saying, and I think he knows a thing or two about playing RB that Walker is already the best English RB and that he has amazing potential for his age. I would also say that he echoes what I think the more insightful posters have said on here that his main learning area needs to be his positional play and that can only come with experience. not a mention of his shit technique anywhere, his lack of brain or decision making in the final third. Nope none of that just really positive thoughts with constructive analysis about where his game can and with experience will improve.

So he likes Lennon and walker and yesterday referred to what a strong right hand sided pairing they are, something that I can personally only agree with and at times we've clearly missed.

He also spoke about how much better we look as a side when we move the ball much quicker, totally contrary to how so many people on here say we should be playing. I find Neville's point here so obvious, all season when we have moved the ball quickly and with purpose we have looked very very good, when we play slowly I personally think we look pedestrian, obvious and have a total lack of end product, which is hardly surprising when you allow the opposition to set and get their defensive shape.

And also having read the same old comments on here month after month did anybody else find it interesting when Neville said how much better Spurs look as a side when we play with Lennon and Bale rather than having Parker, Sandro and Modric in the same side all operating in the middle and crowding out their own space and taking our width away?

I don't always agree with pundits and to be honest I usually don't, however I think gary neville has been a breath of fresh air this season and I think he's got us totally worked out. Let's face it when he commented about Spurs before the Utd game and said Utd always expect to beat us because they knew we were soft mentally, he wasn't wrong was he?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

yeah but what about Gio? As the same people who slate Lennon bemoan poor old Gio's lack of chances and would obviously much sooner see him which is difficult to fathom as he's never shown us anything really in the opportunities that he has had!

And as for Lennon not creating, I thought I saw a pretty tasty and well thought out chipped cross to Bale yesterday which led to the all important opening goal!

Helps if you keep your eyes closed for the other ten situations he fucked up I guess, like being clean through and putting in a very un-tasty chipped cross to no-one.

I think a few people wouldn't have minded GDS being given as much leeway and opportunity to develop as Lennon who throughout his 5 or so years has been very inconsistent with his actual end product. Lennon was lucky in that he was given regular football for about 3-4 years despite going for weeks sometimes without doing much, and has rarely done much away from WHL.

It would have nice if GDS had been given 5 games consecutively. You never know he may have turned out to be of use, even if not a world beater. Bit like Lennon.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Lennon's a top player, underrated by many and creates more chances than most think too. Yes he's frustrating but he's still bloody good and miles ahead of anything else on the right hand side for us.
Also does his fair share helping out his right back too

If we got more players in the box it might help too! Our lack of numbers in the box 90% of the time is shocking. The difference between us and a side like Man U in this department is shocking

There were several times Sunday when we had 3 or four bodies in the box and Lennon, Walker and Rose all failed to get close to them. There was an occasion in the first half when Walker made a great run, got past his full back had VDV screaming unmarked for a pass and Walker to so long to think about it by the time he did it he just gave it to their player.

The composure shown by all our creative wide players leaves a lot to be desired. It's one of the reasons we scored so fees goals last season.

 

[steve]

No, steve. No, I don't. LOL.

I don't blame you I started rambling...

To recap on Walker I think he lacks composure at the crucial moments as does Lennon often....but they can get it right and do good things as they've both shown which suggests it's a mental/emotional issue rather than a technical one...

 

[steve]

Lennon's clipped ball late second half for Walker to run onto was a thing of great beauty...

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Whilst we're on the subject of Lennon it's interesting that Gary Neville who I've personally found to be an excellent analyst on Sky (light years ahead of anybody else they've had) say how much we've missed Lennon when he's been out of the side, which to my mind we clearly have!

Also saying, and I think he knows a thing or two about playing RB that Walker is already the best English RB and that he has amazing potential for his age. I would also say that he echoes what I think the more insightful posters have said on here that his main learning area needs to be his positional play and that can only come with experience. not a mention of his shit technique anywhere, his lack of brain or decision making in the final third. Nope none of that just really positive thoughts with constructive analysis about where his game can and with experience will improve.

So he likes Lennon and walker and yesterday referred to what a strong right hand sided pairing they are, something that I can personally only agree with and at times we've clearly missed.

He also spoke about how much better we look as a side when we move the ball much quicker, totally contrary to how so many people on here say we should be playing. I find Neville's point here so obvious, all season when we have moved the ball quickly and with purpose we have looked very very good, when we play slowly I personally think we look pedestrian, obvious and have a total lack of end product, which is hardly surprising when you allow the opposition to set and get their defensive shape.

And also having read the same old comments on here month after month did anybody else find it interesting when Neville said how much better Spurs look as a side when we play with Lennon and Bale rather than having Parker, Sandro and Modric in the same side all operating in the middle and crowding out their own space and taking our width away?

I don't always agree with pundits and to be honest I usually don't, however I think gary neville has been a breath of fresh air this season and I think he's got us totally worked out. Let's face it when he commented about Spurs before the Utd game and said Utd always expect to beat us because they knew we were soft mentally, he wasn't wrong was he?

Firstly, the thing about moving the ball quickly I answered a few days ago. It's such a stupid thing to say. How and where we can move the ball is often influenced by the opposition. If they sit deep in two banks of defence not allowing us to pass in to areas behind them in space, then we can pass the ball as quick as we like but what we can't do is go from front to back quickly and/or into dangerous areas quickly. It's not like Redknapp ever says "pass it slowly today lads, fuck about as much as you can".

And the stuff about us looking great with Lennon and Bale is cast iron bollocks based on some of the best (which haven't had the pair of them) and worst (which have) performances this season. Again, examples of which I posted for you in the tactical (I think) thread.

You really think that game, where Blackburn didn't even try to play or get up us is an example of the efficacy of that formation. Neville also repeated adnausium how much time and space Blackburn allowed our wide players.

And Neville also gave Walker MOTM against Chelsea away, a game in which he saw less of the ball and contributed less generally than any other player.

What did Neville have to say about the several times Walker got into good positions and wasted them ?

It's why it's possibly never a good idea to appropriate TV pundits ideas, but to grow your own.

 

[Legend10]

Helps if you keep your eyes closed for the other ten situations he fucked up I guess, like being clean through and putting in a very un-tasty chipped cross to no-one.

I think a few people wouldn't have minded GDS being given as much leeway and opportunity to develop as Lennon who throughout his 5 or so years has been very inconsistent with his actual end product. Lennon was lucky in that he was given regular football for about 3-4 years despite going for weeks sometimes without doing much, and has rarely done much away from WHL.

It would have nice if GDS had been given 5 games consecutively. You never know he may have turned out to be of use, even if not a world beater. Bit like Lennon.

You do realise that the final ball is far and away the hardest ball yes?

And fior wingers it's never east because there targets are often outnumbered by 2-1 or more.

In the modern game it's very difficult for out and out wingers, hence why there is few good ones of them about.

 

[kernowspur]

In the first half Modric controlled the game and played many passes of the type that Hudd could play maybe once or twice in a game, but he fell away a bit in the second. Vdv worked very hard both halves and it was Walker's best game for a while. But overall Sandro was MotM.

 

[Legend10]

Firstly, the thing about moving the ball quickly I answered a few days ago. It's such a stupid thing to say. How and where we can move the ball is often influenced by the opposition. If they sit deep in two banks of defence not allowing us to pass in to areas behind them in space, then we can pass the ball as quick as we like but what we can't do is go from front to back quickly and/or into dangerous areas quickly. It's not like Redknapp ever says "pass it slowly today lads, fuck about as much as you can".

And the stuff about us looking great with Lennon and Bale is cast iron bollocks based on some of the best (which haven't had the pair of them) and worst (which have) performances this season. Again, examples of which I posted for you in the tactical (I think) thread.

You really think that game, where Blackburn didn't even try to play or get up us is an example of the efficacy of that formation. Neville also repeated adnausium how much time and space Blackburn allowed our wide players.

And Neville also gave Walker MOTM against Chelsea away, a game in which he saw less of the ball and contributed less generally than any other player.

What did Neville have to say about the several times Walker got into good positions and wasted them ?

It's why it's possibly never a good idea to appropriate TV pundits ideas, but to grow your own.

I totally have my own and have given them for a long time, it's more than Neville seems to think more or less along the same lines, which i found interesting because he's a pundit that i like.

Your first paragraph I'm not going to comment on because it's just total nonsense!

And finally i never even mentioned the Blackburn game, so i can't answer that question.

I rarely give advice because I don't know enough about much to do so, but I'm going to break a habit here and give you a piece on growing your own ideas and it's this, never decide what you've seen before you see it!

 

[gio747]

I totally have my own and have given them for a long time, it's more than Neville seems to think more or less along the same lines, which i found interesting because he's a pundit that i like.

Your first paragraph I'm not going to comment on because it's just total nonsense!

And finally i never even mentioned the Blackburn game, so i can't answer that question.

I rarely give advice because I don't know enough about much to do so, but I'm going to break a habit here and give you a piece on growing your own ideas and it's this, never decide what you've seen before you see it!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I totally have my own and have given them for a long time, it's more than Neville seems to think more or less along the same lines, which i found interesting because he's a pundit that i like.

Your first paragraph I'm not going to comment on because it's just total nonsense!

And finally i never even mentioned the Blackburn game, so i can't answer that question.

I rarely give advice because I don't know enough about much to do so, but I'm going to break a habit here and give you a piece on growing your own ideas and it's this, never decide what you've seen before you see it!

Did you see the Liverpool game ? Or the Wigan away game ? Norwich away game ? Newcastle game ? Chelsea away game ?

These were our best performances. None contained a starting line up of Bale & Lennon.

Did you see ManU away, ManC home, Blackburn away, Fulham away, West Brom away, Stoke away, Wolves home, ManC away, Norwich home, Chelsea Wembley games ?

They all contained Lennon and Bale.

Either you are calling it without seeing it or you are ignoring what you are seeing.

 

[Legend10]

Did you see the Liverpool game ? Or the Wigan away game ? Norwich away game ? Newcastle game ? Chelsea away game ?

These were our best performances. None contained a starting line up of Bale & Lennon.

Did you see ManU away, ManC home, Blackburn away, Fulham away, West Brom away, Stoke away, Wolves home, ManC away, Norwich home, Chelsea Wembley games ?

They all contained Lennon and Bale.

Either you are calling it without seeing it or you are ignoring what you are seeing.

It's amazing how you can argue against yourself sometimes!

What is our worst formation according to your lectures again? Oh yeah that's right 4-4-2!

So Liverpool and Newcastle according to you were 2 of our best performances, what formation did we play in those 2 games again? Oh yeah 4-4-2, very strange that they should be 2 of our best performances then with such a shit system!

Wigan away one of our best performances? Eh for 30 minutes maybe, after that we were under the cosh! Fulham away who scored our 3 goals again? Oh yeah Bale, Lennon and your favourite useless player Defoe who also played in that best performance against Liverpool! Did you simply forget games like Blackburn away and QPR 3-0 when they both played, or was it convenient amnesia? or how about at home to Villa and away to WBA or Bolton at home or!

As for the poor performances I'll discard the first 2 as we had no sort of side to be honest and were in total disarray with the Modric situation, but you think we played badly at City? Laughable we were a toe end away from being the first side to get anything there this season despite JD having to play the front roll alone and Balotelli not getting what he deserved!

What about the poor performances were those 2 haven't played such as Arsenal away, Sunderland away, Liverpool away which you keep citing as our worst performance? have you conveniently missed those 2 out?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's amazing how you can argue against yourself sometimes!

What is our worst formation according to your lectures again? Oh yeah that's right 4-4-2!

So Liverpool and Newcastle according to you were 2 of our best performances, what formation did we play in those 2 games again? Oh yeah 4-4-2, very strange that they should be 2 of our best performances then with such a shit system!

Wigan away one of our best performances? Eh for 30 minutes maybe, after that we were under the cosh! Fulham away who scored our 3 goals again? Oh yeah Bale, Lennon and your favourite useless player Defoe who also played in that best performance against Liverpool! Did you simply forget games like Blackburn away and QPR 3-0 when they both played, or was it convenient amnesia? or how about at home to Villa and away to WBA or Bolton at home or!

As for the poor performances I'll discard the first 2 as we had no sort of side to be honest and were in total disarray with the Modric situation, but you think we played badly at City? Laughable we were a toe end away from being the first side to get anything there this season despite JD having to play the front roll alone and Balotelli not getting what he deserved!

What about the poor performances were those 2 haven't played such as Arsenal away, Sunderland away, Liverpool away which you keep citing as our worst performance? have you conveniently missed those 2 out?

It's not just about formation, it's about the personnel used and the tactics applied. We've played fantastically well with 4411 and 442, but rarely in difficult games with Bale and Lennon. That's the point.

And with regards to being England's no.1 (RB), even if it were true, which I don't believe it is, it wouldn't really mean much. Robinson was England's number one goalie whilst being a very poor keeper. It says more about England than it would Walker.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I don't blame you I started rambling...

To recap on Walker I think he lacks composure at the crucial moments as does Lennon often....but they can get it right and do good things as they've both shown which suggests it's a mental/emotional issue rather than a technical one...

I think that Lennon falls down in two key areas-vision and execution.

I'm sure we've all heard the old chestnut about top players knowing what they're going to do with the ball before they've even received it. The general feeling I get when Lennon receives the ball is that he doesn't really know what's on.

Here's Hoddle speaking about Huddlestone (another player I don't rate, by the way)...

"He’s got ability, but more importantly as a midfield player he looks forward, he plays forward rather than square and back, he can hurt the other team and that’s the key thing Spurs miss when he’s out.

"He’s got quick feet, he’s got a quick brain and he’s got a good picture in his mind when he receives the ball. There are enough athletes in football, in the modern game, there are enough people who run around and do whatever but Tom’s got a special gift and I think he’s starting to believe in himself more and use it."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2557...s-praise-on-tottenham-hotspur-midfielder-tom-

 

[Legend10]

It's not just about formation, it's about the personnel used and the tactics applied. We've played fantastically well with 4411 and 442, but rarely in difficult games with Bale and Lennon. That's the point.

And with regards to being England's no.1 (RB), even if it were true, which I don't believe it is, it wouldn't really mean much. Robinson was England's number one goalie whilst being a very poor keeper. It says more about England than it would Walker.

Now you're endorsing a 4-4-2 with Defoe in it, well well!

Rarely with Lennon and Bale? i wouldn't say that at all, what I would say is that probably our best performance of recent times was beating the European champions 3-1 at the Lane, with a team that included lennon and bale and there are plenty of other good performances that we've had with these 2 playing.

Regarding Walker, it doesn't say very much to be England's best RB? Are you sure it doesn't? Also his fellow pro's voted him the best RB in the Premiership which is probably the second best league in the world! Everybody in the know seems to rate Walker except one or two who know better on here!

However you do rate Alan Hutton very highly yes, so would you sooner we had hutton as our regular RB over Walker?

Maybe you would like to see our right side as Hutton behind Gio?

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Now you're endorsing a 4-4-2 with Defoe in it, well well!

Rarely with Lennon and Bale? i wouldn't say that at all, what I would say is that probably our best performance of recent times was beating the European champions 3-1 at the Lane, with a team that included lennon and bale and there are plenty of other good performances that we've had with these 2 playing.

Regarding Walker, it doesn't say very much to be England's best RB? Are you sure it doesn't? Also his fellow pro's voted him the best RB in the Premiership which is probably the second best league in the world! Everybody in the know seems to rate Walker except one or two who know better on here!

However you do rate Alan Hutton very highly yes, so would you sooner we had hutton as our regular RB over Walker?

Maybe you would like to see our right side as Hutton behind Gio?

I think BC is losing the plot. Sometimes I agree with what he says but on this he's delusional

For me we were at our best playing 442 with Bale & Lennon and your spot on. All of a sudden we're having a poor run and people are saying we can't play 442 etc etc etc........bullshit, I've seen us tear teams apart game after game after game with our 2 fantastic wingers in a 442 formation

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Now you're endorsing a 4-4-2 with Defoe in it, well well!

Rarely with Lennon and Bale? i wouldn't say that at all, what I would say is that probably our best performance of recent times was beating the European champions 3-1 at the Lane, with a team that included lennon and bale and there are plenty of other good performances that we've had with these 2 playing.

Regarding Walker, it doesn't say very much to be England's best RB? Are you sure it doesn't? Also his fellow pro's voted him the best RB in the Premiership which is probably the second best league in the world! Everybody in the know seems to rate Walker except one or two who know better on here!

However you do rate Alan Hutton very highly yes, so would you sooner we had hutton as our regular RB over Walker?

Maybe you would like to see our right side as Hutton behind Gio?

The fact that you have to go back nearly a year and a half to find a game against decent opposition to back up your point should surely tell you something.

You and Southlondonyiddo seem to be able to completely ignore the vast amount of tangible evidence that suggests in all but the very easiest of games, and nearly always at WHL playing Bale and Lennon (especially with Modric) in a 4 man midfield has rarely seen us perform well and has invariably made us vulnerable and away from home seen some of the worst performances.

Why don't you actually post what I have said about Hutton instead of trotting out silly stuff. Over the period he was with us I said he was just as good or even sometimes a better option out of the RB's we had (which was mostly him and Corluka). I thought both had merits but that it was an area we badly needed to upgrade because neither were good enough.

Before this season I would have said he was still my choice of the three (Walker having come back) but I would definitely choose Walker of the three now, but it doest say that much because despite the bullshit claimed, I have always said we need to improve our RB's, and I still don't rate Walker as much as most seem to.

He scores a wonder goal and Gary Neville makes him MOTM and for the first time in months the Walker fan club have a flag to wave. For much of the season he's been very iffy defensively and has cost us some important goals with the very poor reading of the game (the sort of thing Hutton would get slaughtered for) and if analysed with an unbiased eye has actually contributed very little in an attacking sense to our season - and this is supposed to be his forte. Even Sunday he made a couple of massive howlers and until his goal, despite getting into several great positions, was very poor with his end product - and he won't get an easier game.

He's quick, has a very good attitude and is tenacious. Qualities which make him the only choice for us at the moment (the fact that he has no actual competition helps I guess). But I think, a bit like Lennon, a lot of people are a bit blinded by what he promises than what he actually delivers.

And the endorsing Defoe comment is just silly. Just because I accept we have played well with Defoe in the side, doesn't mean it's right for us every week. Kranjcar played in a couple of those, I wouldn't play him every week either, same Livermore etc etc.

But there is overwhelming evidence that playing Bale and Lennon in anything but very easy home games is not the best format and the reasons are obvious. Only someone who can't accept they are wrong would refuse to accept the evidence of many performances and results.

 

[Mr Pink]

I must admit I was delighted when we sold Hutton, always rated Charlie way above him despite his lack of pace. He was better positionally, a far better reader of the game and was generally far more composed on the ball. Walker is already light years ahead of the Scottish Cafu

I don't even think Hutton will last at Villa when big Eek gets the chop.