4-1-4-1

[crokey]

That's exactly the kind of sentiment I don't agree with. Formations matter - a lot. And some formations are simply worse than others.

No they aren't. Some formations are simply worse against specific other formations than others. The end game is to not have a formation, and simply adopt a system which specifically counters the team we play against.

 

[Kiedis]

That's exactly the kind of sentiment I don't agree with. Formations matter - a lot. And some formations are simply worse than others.

I think our shape has been looking more or less the same this season as it did last year. There's still one very designated DM, one of Eriksen and Alli (Dembele last year) will still drop down when we're trying to build from the back, and the width still comes mainly from our full backs.

The changes in shape are more down to who's playing the particular game. Lamela and Son rarely hugs the touchline, Sissoko tends to. Alli goes roaming beyond the striker, Dembele wouldn't be caught dead doing that.

We have a very set way of playing where we alter some small things depending on the gameplan (i.e. Davies tucking in and closing down counter attacking Space against CSKA instead of overlapping.), and it's looking the same way it did last year. The changes are subtle, and they vary from game to game.

 

[mil1lion]

So far the partnership of Vic and Dier/Dembele has looked anything but pedestrian. It could be down to familiarity and fitness, but I think this new formation allows us to press as a bit more.

For me and I have been beating this drum since last year, that dembele was and is best up the pitch in our style of play. If given space we see his flaws of slow build up, but when in tight spaces, he uses his pace, strength, and length to disrupt and launch counters. I believe it was against Chelsea early in the year where Dele played deep and Son and Dembele pressed the living hell out of Chelsea. For me that was one of our best performances last year.

I would have thought the team pressing higher up the pitch as a unit is more effective than one of the central midfielders. When Dier sits between the centre backs it isn't necessarily him dropping deeper as the centre backs pushing up and occupying the midfield area. So the 4-1-4-1 doesn't seem necessary to me because it suggests the team are more stretched. We got far too deep in the 2nd half against Leverkusen.

 

[Cravenspurs]

I would have thought the team pressing higher up the pitch as a unit is more effective than one of the central midfielders. When Dier sits between the centre backs it isn't necessarily him dropping deeper as the centre backs pushing up and occupying the midfield area. So the 4-1-4-1 doesn't seem necessary to me because it suggests the team are more stretched. We got far too deep in the 2nd half against Leverkusen.

There is more space in behind Wanyama in the 4141, but with proper pressing, that isn't an issue from what I have seen.

We became open when Dembele came on and sat next to Wanyama. At least that is how I saw it

 

[Vincent30]

There is more space in behind Wanyama in the 4141, but with proper pressing, that isn't an issue from what I have seen.

We became open when Dembele came on and sat next to Wanyama. At least that is how I saw it

You can't start comparing games where Dembele has come on as a sub in a game and finding match fitness, starting a game with Dembele and Wanyama versus putting them together on the 70th minute of a game are massively different situations and not comparable, due to chasing the game or the other team chasing the game, tiredness of players i could go on.

For me it's a tough one, as against CSKA, Leverk, Boro, WBA i've felt we have been more open for the other team to score. This is because we are yet to replicate the City performance where the whole team was up for it and pressed aggressively for sustained periods. Eirksen for me was deeper in the City game and we looked way more like a 4-3-3 than a 4-1-4-1 as per the other games. I think we need to compact the middle a little more as especailly against CSKA and Leverk there was gaping holes between Wanyama and the other 4, it seemed to me the other 4 were looking more for the glory and too attack minded with little discipline in their defensive duties, this is great if we are retaining the ball high up the pitch with high pass accuracy / completion and taking our chances, but unfortunately that's where this falls down like against Leverk where we were so sloppy in our attacking play, awful pass completion and had too many players beyond the ball leaving Wanyama exposed. My personal thoughts are 2 DCMs is a little overkill and the preference for me would be a 4-3-3.

I think we have an absolute gem in Wanyama and he is doing two peoples jobs curently, i would like to see how this works with Dembele fully fit and a little further ahead of him partnered with Eriksen as our 3 CMs.

But that aside, i believe Leverk are the best team we have played this year and we showed how hard we are to break down with is amazing considering how soft we once were.

 

[olliec]

Still not convinced with this formation especially after todays performance. Not one clear chance was created today and it looks so congested in the middle as well.

 

[mil1lion]

We didn't press high enough first half today. The fullbacks weren't able to get into the final 3rd much which made it difficult. We pushed forward better in the 2nd half and just lacked the quality to put the ball in the net. I didn't really see it as a 4-1-4-1, it looked similar to before where Wanyama was a little behind Dembele but Alli was further forward than Dembele so the system was the same as before.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Dembele played too deep for this to be an effective 4-1-4-1.

While not as deep as the traditional 4-2-3-1, this was more 4-1-1-3-1

 

[double0]

Personally I think for the players we have 4231 is better...it's a much more flexible system. It seems we've adjusted from 4231 to 4141 just to accommodate Wanyama.

We're not scoring many goals of late and drawing lots.

 

[idontgetit]

When the formation looks great is when we get loads of players forward all smashing the oppositions back line with lots of movement, without leaving ourselves open at the same time. Yesterday we got loads of players overloading their midfield but very little on the back line.

 

[Blake Griffin]

yesterday was 4231.

 

[Spursh]

Personally I think for the players we have 4231 is better...it's a much more flexible system. It seems we've adjusted from 4231 to 4141 just to accommodate Wanyama.

We're not scoring many goals of late and drawing lots.

I agree that 4231 is our best system, but I believe we've been playing 4141 recently to accomadate Eriksen. Poch will always deploy a natural DM, so Wanyama/Dier will play. Eriksen has lost his left wing place to Son and no.10 position to Alli, but Poch insists on starting him so has changed the formation to accomadate the Dane IMO.

Yesterday was more 4231 with Dembele back in the side, with Eriksen playing on the right (not to great effect though).

When Kane is fit, Son will be back on the wing so Poch will probably have to drop either Lamela or Eriksen IMO (the latter would be my choice for the sake of the balance the former gives us on the right)

 

[whitelanefever]

I think sometimes we get to caught up in formations to much & I say this because they are always changing & really formation is a defence recall to hold shape without the ball in deep defence, it also can have relevance in deep transition & build up however once attacking a teams system kicks in & the formation is irrelevant as it is constantly changing & it is about holding shapes (out ball.. deep-lying player in midfield) & angles for pass.. the formation is constantly interchangeable in possesion

 

[olliec]

Either Son or Eriksen will occupy that left space if we go back to 4-2-3-1. Personally I would rather see Son there. Eriksen has been poor lately.

 

[Riandor]

To me it shows that we actually do miss Kane's selfish shooting streak. Something to make defenders move out of position for fear of kane shooting. At the moment we are a bit arsenal-esque in trying to over-lay and pass it in the final third and are being crowded out.

We don't look like losing though, which is always nice.

 

[JonnySpurs]

I have no issues with the formation, i really don't think there's a great deal of difference between a 4231 or a 4141 and we're probably over-analysing a bit here.

My biggest concern is the lack of pace in our overall attack. N'Koudou is the quickest attacker we have and he's not making the bench at the moment. When he has come on in games he's looked good and very lively. Beyond that our quickest players are our full backs, which is great and all but speed is important in this league and whilst we have a strong squad, I still feel we need more speedier options on the bench.

A moment that stood out vs Bournemouth was in the 2nd half when Eriksen flicked the ball beautifully into Lamela's path and the kid gave it all he could to breakaway and was run down by.....Steve Cook.....yikes. Sure, it's not Lamela's game and he's predominantly an inverted winger in our system but still, pace kills in those moments and we're certainly lacking.

Overall I'm happy enough with how we've been playing and I still personally believe we are yet to hit our stride and play our best football. City was close to it but we need to recognise that in open games against teams that attack us more we have been very good, just not clinical enough. In games where teams sit in and try to counter us we tend to struggle, we did last year as well.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

yesterday was 4231.

Depends on when you are referring to. We started out in a 4141, but IMO chickened out and secured a draw by switching back to that ineffective 4231. And it did not improve us.

I have no issues with the formation, i really don't think there's a great deal of difference between a 4231 or a 4141 and we're probably over-analysing a bit here.

I disagree. They are actually very different. (When both formations are played in their truest form, the differences are tangible).

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Well I am pissed off. Plenty of you got what you wanted. Rather than going even bigger, bolder, braver, painting with flashing colours and outlining creatives shapes, maestro Pochettino chickened out like plenty of fans wanted him to and reverted back to a boring, outdated, ineffective and predictable shit-shit-shit "masterpiece" with no ambition. And to to top that off, he went ahead and spent 50 millions on pure muscle mass this summer in the transfer window, only to lose a physical match to the imposters from a city who's only claim to fame is that a square in London has the same name, and that Americans can't spell or pronounce said name. I've not been pissed off this season so far, but this math really threw me for one big, angry loop.

 

[double0]

The system isn't all bad but we've been consistently poor finishing our chances Eriksen Lamela and Janssen need to score more goals for a start.

 

[olliec]

It's not the system it's the fact we don't have a Coutinho, Ozil, Silva, De Bruyne type player. Eriksen has been absolute crap lately and hasn't done anything or created anything for us.