4-2-3-1 has to stop

[DaSpurs]

Not saying otherwise, I think those have been poor decisions by Poch (although Mason might have been fitness related).

As mentioned recently elsewhere, I don't think Holtby was entirely our decision. He's been treated as the second coming of Christ in Hamburg, while as for us he may have only hoped for occasional minutes. 300 people showed up to his first training session and mobbed him afterwards for autographs and to bless their babies.

Yeah, I've no doubt it was partially from us due to not promising him first choice, but I've also no doubt Hamburg promised him a tract of land on the moon to turn his head to push the move. I don't think Poch necessarily "chose" for Holtby to move per se.

 

[stevenurse]

Walob, your last sentance proves of. Shame jrod can't cure cancer and he's obviously solvedfamine

Not entirely sure what your post means but are you telling me that as a wide forward, you would prefer Townsend to Rodriguez?

I've never claimed he's the messiah or a very naughty boy, but simply that whatever formation is chosen, the players need to be suitable. Otherwise it'd round pegs in square holes which we have seemingly had for years

 

[makeveli]

Don't think it's the formation more to do with the average players we have in every area, and the club not wanting to buy top players.

 

[cliff jones]

cant make time to check the whole thread but its not the formation its what the players are actually doing both on and off the ball that matters. the main problems:

no one runs past ade
there are no give and gos
if ramsey can make a dart forward to make the extra man from the dm2 then dembele certainly can

more specific to home games, against park the bus teams

players become afraid to try anything ambitious on the ball, so hide by playing the easy option
no-one's remotely brave enough to shoot

lastly, coming back to formations, we don't have a plan b to the opposition will scout us well and we have no surprises at all to disrupt their plans

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Ade scored 11 for us in only 21 games last season and scored 17 in his first season with us so that theory doesn't hold true. I'm not sure it's that our front 4 are too nice, it seems to meet that we just don't do enough to affect our own fortunes going forward. It seems that we have improved in pressing and that we want to get the ball quickly forward but of it is without thought or purpose it is going to remain ineffective unless teams are really stretched. With the amount of possession we have we hardly ever face a team we can hit that is really low on numbers at the back so getting the ball forward early as a main strategy isn't going to cut it.

I do believe this will change. There are already some positive signs of change in other areas and it's really really early days. Only 3 games ago we were top and Poch was the messiah. We just have to have a little patience and understanding.

True Ade did get 17 goals in his loan spell and looked good at times last season but I don't think he's a natural goalscorer. I don't really feel confident when I see him take a shot at goal. Good a thing about him is he does bring others into play and can assist but we need the 3 behind so weigh in with more goals for it to work.

 

[mikspurz]

See ya.

Ok Jizz.

 

[Shea]

At this point I'm not really sure who to blame, but I suspect there's been a whole slew of mistakes from a slew of people. Coaches choosing wrong kinds of players/failing to recognize problems on time, Levy not loosening up on some options, Baldini getting too involved, etc..

What we do know though, is that no one is going to step up and take responsibility for anything. So we can only hope for the future, and my hope is that Poch is rapidly learning how things are at Spurs all in terms of pressure, the squad, and how opponents play against us; because it's all so very different to how things were for him at different clubs.

So I hope he makes some hard decisions this upcoming January. We already made some this summer, and unfortunately more are required. Some likable guys have got to go, and some new guys have to be brought in even if they don't provide assured quality, because all that matters is something different. We simply do not have the full regiment of players to make his system work, nor to even consistently beat teams of lesser quality or stand toe to toe with the strong teams. And I think this will all require lessening of expectations, or else it will all only continue. Poch has to be given confidence or he will continue to only play it safe, as the managers before him have.

When I say take responsibility I'm saying someone or may should fall on their sword - just that they should realise the failings and work towards correcting them and not repeating the same errors in future windows

That includes giving time to the new man to develop this team before judging, that includes making signings that we need and not wait around all window before failing to get out targets and ending up empty handed or with cheaper inferior options

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Don't think it'd make that much difference.

Rather than describing how our formation is working or whether it is right for us, I'd describe the way we are playing being akin to a boxer. We are the type of fighter that is on the front foot the whole fight, we throw a massive volume of punches but they are all coming from the same angle. We just punch, punch, punch as hard as we can and the opponent is covering up pretty easily, with all our punches just hitting their gloves. Then they either wait for us to get a bit loose while punching away since we aren't really keeping our form that well, ala Liverpool, or they absorb everything until we punch ourselves out. If we add a flashy new pacy striker we will do the same thing. Our punching speed may be a little faster and the odd punch might get through the defence, we might even be able to rattle our opponent but we would still be pretty much a slightly muscled up version of the same fighter.

I think a front man with pace would make a difference to us. We never play through balls as there isn't anyone to run onto them. Soldado thrives on low crosses, and isn't quick anyway. Ade drifts wide a lot and comes deep, rarely do I see him making runs off the defender. Kane is still learning his trade at this level, I got high hopes for him despite his terrible EL game last week but I'm still not sure if he's a no9 or 10 and we know pace isn't his strong point.

So we have 3 strikers who don't really scare the defenders directly through the middle with pace. An attacking trio that don't either, so we're not that hard to defend against imo.

Dembele should be a goal threat from deep and has the ability to get 6-8 goals a season even playing as part of the 2 but I'm not sure if he has the belief and mentality to do it. He definitely has all the attributes to, he can shoot with both feet, is strong and can dribble. Probably frustrates me the most out of all our players, he should be dominating games in the middle of the park.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Truth, but unfortunately we aren't doing that at the moment: getting the ball forward ASAP and pressing. We've seen some press, but I don't believe I've ever seen a top flight team as poor as we are at getting the ball forward quickly. We are just shockingly poor in this regard.

Just watched the entire 90 minutes of the WBA game because i'd missed much of it at the weekend. Having watched us in the games earlier in the season I think my description wasn't too far off. But the game yesterday we were more like one of those heavy footed heavy weights that throws about 3 punches a round. Almost every single pass forward bounced back and every other pass took about 4 to 5 seconds to make. The movement was horrendous. The pressing was simply none existent today, which is really strange as at times this season (even if not for full matches) we've looked a lot better at it.

West Brom were very organized and we simply didn't do anything to even try to disrupt their structure. We either ran with it at their brick wall or passed it into their brick wall after taking an age to think of the pass. A backward step for sure this weekend, and the fans are already getting pissed at the home performances.

 

[yido_number1]

Just watched the entire 90 minutes of the WBA game because i'd missed much of it at the weekend. Having watched us in the games earlier in the season I think my description wasn't too far off. But the game yesterday we were more like one of those heavy footed heavy weights that throws about 3 punches a round. Almost every single pass forward bounced back and every other pass took about 4 to 5 seconds to make. The movement was horrendous. The pressing was simply none existent today, which is really strange as at times this season (even if not for full matches) we've looked a lot better at it.

West Brom were very organized and we simply didn't do anything to even try to disrupt their structure. We either ran with it at their brick wall or passed it into their brick wall after taking an age to think of the pass. A backward step for sure this weekend, and the fans are already getting pissed at the home performances.

Totally agree with that. I was expecting it to be up and down and the QPR game gave us a glimpse of what we should be doing to teams. The main thing we lack is options to bring players off and a plan b. We seemed to be doing exactly the same thing and making the same mistakes for 90 minutes.

The manager needs time to make this work and hopefully people remember this. Same problems under 3 managers and you have to look at the players we have on board.