An Unpopular Opinion Amnesty

[Pleat_Out]

Yes Tim managed 0 yes ZERO points against the top 4.

A marginal improvement at home only. Poch against the top 4 away... played 4, 1 draw, 3 defeats (4 defeats if you include the cup final) goals for 2, goals against 11. We also played well at home to Arsenal under Sherwood in a narrow defeat towards the end and played well at Chelsea until Vertogthen had his brain fart. Well, at least as good as the 0-3 there this year.

Either way, the same point stands. Sherwood beat everyone 5th-9th - 8 games, 8 wins. Were those points worth any less than the ones against Chelsea or Arsenal? It is funny when Sherwood was winning those games last year, loads of people were all 'Of course he won.... ANYONE could win those games... it's so easy and nothing exceptional...".

Well, how does that argument look now? Sherwood got nearly 2 points per game. 76 points over a season. United currently sit in 4th on 68. So even if Sherwood had the exact same record against the top 4 at home, and delievered the exact same non-improvement away against the top 4 as under Poch, but had won all these the "easy" games the same as last year, we'd be a shoo-in for the top 4. In fact, we'd probably be 3rd.

 

[Pleat_Out]

You used the Stoke result twice.

Nope... different games. Sherwood did the double over Stoke. We beat them 3-0 at home and then 1-0 at around this time last season, funnily enough!

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Nope... different games. Sherwood did the double over Stoke. We beat them 3-0 at home and then 1-0 at around this time last season, funnily enough!

No, you used it twice in the first line and then mentioned it regarding Tim.

 

[eViL]

Hugo Lloris fails to command his area and his defence.

Always has.

 

[Pleat_Out]

No, you used it twice in the first line and then mentioned it regarding Tim.

Sorry I don't get the point? The other poster said at least Poch had stopped the regular beatings? I was using the 0-3 defeat to Stoke yesterday as an example of a regular beating. Then I used Sherwood's big wins, and goal difference, to show that Poch has invariably has only been winning narrowly whereas Sherwood had several big wins of his own.

 

[tiger666]

Yes Tim managed 0 yes ZERO points against the top 4.

That's ok. Poch has managed zero points against Stoke to make up for it.

 

[prawnsandwich]

Last season we lost by 3 goals or more 3 times under AVB and 3 times under Tim.
This year we have lost by 3 goals or more 5 times. So one less. Big fucking deal. Last year we beat United away this year we were thrashed.
Even if we win our last 2 games we will still be 5 points worse this season than last.
MoPo is a fraud and a flop. He was brought in to improve an already good side but he has made it worse.
He refuses to play Ade and Kane together because he is frightened that people will say that's what Tim would have done.

 

[jezz]

That's ok. Poch has managed zero points against Stoke to make up for it.

Agreed 100% and that's something to be rectified big time.
But would you rather beat Stoke and lose against Arse?

 

[prawnsandwich]

We must get a manager who does what Mourinho does-NOT LOSE to our rivals.

 

[jezz]

We must get a manager who does what Mourinho does-NOT LOSE to our rivals.

What like Arsenal?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

What like Arsenal?

It's quite simple for some people. We need to get a manager like Mourinho, the best coach in the world. Easy peasy.

 

[shelfboy68]

We must get a manager who does what Mourinho does-NOT LOSE to our rivals.

Would love a manager like this or the man himself but it wont happen because he couldnt work under what levy demands.
Like the players we are trying to buy the manager too has to fit the system it maybe a shit one but thats the way our club rolls.
Plus Mourinho will only go to clubs that stand a chance of competing and success that then rules us out Im afraid.

 

[prawnsandwich]

Some people are really "challenged" by the amnesty thing.

Some people also think we should aim low when we search for our new manager. Me, I would like us to aim high.

 

[jezz]

Some people are really "challenged" by the amnesty thing.

Some people also think we should aim low when we search for our new manager. Me, I would like us to aim high.

I didn't want Poch. Personally LVG or De boer.
But we got Poch and that's how it is.
So he gets my support but debating his negatives is good and healthy.
Calling for a managers head because weve lost games is just knee jerk.
We've just been through 2 managers and got no were.
Time for patience.
Next season and no progression then maybe.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Pochettino will be gone before Christmas.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Since we beat Arsenal it's been as bad as the 90's. The 90's without Klinsmann or Ginola.
Or Teddy.
Dazza.
Barmby.

 

[DaSpurs]

Yes Tim managed 0 yes ZERO points against the top 4.

To me this indicates that Poch has at least improved our mentality, something I will always be thankful to him for even if I disagree strongly with some of his footballing ideas/decisions.

Last season, we gained one point from the final top four and went 0-7-1 against our greatest emotional rivals in Arsenal, Chelsea, and West Ham. This season, we've gained seven points from the current top four and went 3-2-2 against those same emotional rivals, including wins against each. To me, that at least suggests considerable improvement in mental resolve, and I think that came from Poch advocating a new core.

So I'm thankful to him for that, but I still strongly disagree with how rigidly stubborn he is to his concepts of a football system and the players compatible.

 

[DaSpurs]

Hugo Lloris fails to command his area and his defence.

Always has.

Agreed. This is why I don't think he's an ideal pitch captain, despite being a great leader.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

To me this indicates that Poch has at least improved our mentality, something I will always be thankful to him for even if I disagree strongly with some of his footballing ideas/decisions.

Last season, we gained one point from the final top four and went 0-7-1 against our greatest emotional rivals in Arsenal, Chelsea, and West Ham. This season, we've gained seven points from the current top four and went 3-2-2 against those same emotional rivals, including wins against each. To me, that at least suggests considerable improvement in mental resolve, and I think that came from Poch advocating a new core.

So I'm thankful to him for that, but I still strongly disagree with how rigidly stubborn he is to his concepts of a football system and the players compatible.

He has changed the mentality (somewhat), but hardly improved it. A squad with an improved mentality would have put in an effort vs. lessor teams too.

 

[DaSpurs]

He has changed the mentality (somewhat), but hardly improved it. A squad with an improved mentality would have put in an effort vs. lessor teams too.

I think that's another indication of improved mentality, and not necessarily a greater indicator. I agree in truth, as I still think we have a mentally weak squad in general (lot of entitlement and comfortable players out there), but I do think he has improved the mental resolution. The capitulations last seasons were disgusting. Poch removed the rot, the players which allowed those, and put in a new and younger core which didn't take those capitulations. They still have considerable room for improvement, but they at least have a better foundation.

@Spurger King proposed not too long ago that the training ground may play a significant role in that "comfortable" mentality often exhibited by the players. Frankly, I think it's a good point and I think there's genuine viability in it. A lot of the players currently in our squads likely didn't even receive offers from other big clubs in Europe. So they received those offers, are now being paid well, are living the young professional life in London, work daily at an extremely plush center, don't want to screw up because they don't want to lose it since they were lucky to receive it in the first place (so don't take risks/responsibility), and it's not as if they're really doing any harm because we're just rolling along where we "belong" anyway at 5-6th.

I think if we're going to really improve our team's mentality, we need a sickening **** in there somewhere. Ryan Shawcross for instance isn't the best defender we could get, but the impact he would have on team mentality would be well worth it IMO. We are still far too quick to drop heads when things don't come off, and I think Shawcross would have none of that shit. If we're going to play a full press system, we absolutely must have an out-and-out leader in behind keeping the young lads on point and 100% focused, or it can quickly fall apart.