At what point will people stop saying we’ve never had it so good?

[vegassd]

Is everybody forgetting our 11 game winning streak? We were all saying then that we had the "winning mentality" and the ability to "close a game down" that we had been missing for years. Did that suddenly evaporate?

Remember that the players we watch every weekend have come up through the ranks and form a small percentage of all the kids who ever dreamed of being a pro footy player. They will have pursued football over all else, so I'm pretty sure they all have a winning mentality.

I really don't buy into the idea that a "winning mentality" makes you win. It means you try until the bitter end (like we did against Norwich, Stoke, Villa) but it doesn't mean that the ball will go in the net (like against Norwich, Stoke, Villa). I think we displayed a good attitude throughout the season - OK a few games were patchy - but we didn't have a Van Persie, Rooney or Aguero who can pop-up and bury it in the final minutes.

And we haven't really had that kind of clinical match winner since Klinsmann.

 

[hybridsoldier]

Is everybody forgetting our 11 game winning streak? We were all saying then that we had the "winning mentality" and the ability to "close a game down" that we had been missing for years. Did that suddenly evaporate?

Yes it did I think, thats quite clear. The problem in our bad run was we never really took the lead, we always went behind and then started playing. I think the team started to expect to win games and opposition developed better tactics to stop us. That combined with tired players, and a loss of rhythm in the playing style from playing the same team all the time.

I am also with the OP in that yes Harry has done a great job, but people forget Martin Jol led us to 5th twice, once excruciatingly close to 4th, Juande Ramos took us to a Carling Cup win over a side that reached the CL Final.

There was definitely something coming from Spurs since Arnesen came in and cleared out virtually the whole squad and bought a new one in. No doubt Harry has done a great job with these players but I think we are at a point where we to starting thinking about the future. Harry is not a manager who thinks about the future - not his fault entirely as he dared to try and build something at West Ham and then the club went and sold its top players. IMO I think Harry is always weary now.

I saw Alan Pardew talk about the size of Newcastle and where it belongs and I thought, thats the kind of stuff you want to hear from your manager. David Moyes sometimes criticises the funds he has had but he always is the first defender of Everton as still being a big club. Arsene Wenger - we laugh at this guy the most for his "delusion" over Arsenal and their "title challenges" but hey if I am a fan thats what I want to hear.

Not "I'm happy with 4th" after talking about a title challenge over Xmas, or "look at where Spurs were before I came" yeah sure the club didn't exist before Harry Redknapp came along, or "people get carried away with what Tottenham are doing they need a reality check" we were after 3rd place not the bloody World Club Cup!

I mean I appreciate that a few years ago I would have never thought we'd be in the CL so for Harry to achieve that was magic and he will always have my love and respect for it, however Harry would have jumped for the England job and I'm not convinced he wouldn't jump for the Chelsea job, he has no real loyalty to us and he demonstrated that by talking about England all the time in the middle of our massive slump!

Sometimes you need to have ambition and be ruthless, Barcelona did it when they axed Rijkaard, and Newcastle did it when they axed Hughton.

What I will finish on is though that Harry is the safe bet, you know if we have the same XI next season under Harry eventually he will drag them to around 5th/6th and going with a Rogers/Lambert etc is a risk and I don't think Levy will take that risk. So I think Harry will stay for now.

 

[bomberH]

I don't agree with pretty much any of that but I'm on my phone and can't be bothered to post a reply at the moment. I'll do so later.

 

[Misfit]

It's not about having ideas above our station or being ungrateful. It really isn't. Besides, we're not orphans asking for second helpings of gruel. We're paying fans who are practically the only people associated with the club who have a real emotional stakehold. This shit matters to us.

It's about demanding a certain standard be aimed for. The winning streak was lovely - fantastic in fact - and was something to be proud of and congratulate the players and H on but winning 2 games in 10 was not. That was simply unnaceptable. Some of us are far too quick to dismiss or gloss over it but if we are serious about challenging for the top 4 yr after yr, and we should be, then that kind of thing needs to stop.

Not just a collective shrug of the shoulders from manager and fans alike.

And that is not to say that we should throw a massive hissy fit if those standards aren't met. A real, concerted effort from all of these bloody well paid "professionals" to try and find out where and why the failings are happening and steps taken to try and remedy the situation and isn't too much to ask for though. Not a constant stream of deflection and umming and ahhing.

The margins are fine. 2 more wins last season and we'd have been 4th. 1 more pt this season ad we'd have been 3rd.

 

[Robbiepope]

As someone who is below 30, I can say 100 percent that I have never seen a better Tottenham team. I think you could have Tom, Dick or Harry in charge, but unless we are going to start paying top wages to attract and keep quality players, we will never compete at the very top on a consistant basis. It amazes me how so many people on here focus on the manager and not the owners in reaching that 'next level'.

 

[Misfit]

Aside from a couple of semi-disastrous managerial appointments, I'll give DL and ENIC an A+ for their work as our stewards so far. If I were to be greedy I would ask them to be even more awesome I suppose.

Two bad runs these last 2 seasons - and dropping pts against all 3 relegated teams last season, and failing to beat Narge a home, Stoke at home, getting a pt away to QPR etc have precisely bugger all to do with the fact that we don't pay our stars £100K+ or our squad players £80K.

What that would have meant is about £60m-£80m more in revenue for this club over the last 2 yrs and establishing ourselves as a top 4 club. Or, to put it another way, reaching that 'next level'.

 

[Robbiepope]

Aside from a couple of semi-disastrous managerial appointments, I'll give DL and ENIC an A+ for their work as our stewards so far. If I were to be greedy I would ask them to be even more awesome I suppose.

Two bad runs these last 2 seasons - and dropping pts against all 3 relegated teams last season, and failing to beat Narge a home, Stoke at home, getting a pt away to QPR etc have precisely bugger all to do with the fact that we don't pay our stars £100K+ or our squad players £80K.

What that would have meant is about £60m-£80m more in revenue for this club over the last 2 yrs and establishing ourselves as a top 4 club. Or, to put it another way, reaching that 'next level'.

So having top players and quality squad depth does not make a difference in achieving consistant results? Is that what your really trying to tell me?

 

[bomberH]

Yes it did I think, thats quite clear. The problem in our bad run was we never really took the lead, we always went behind and then started playing. I think the team started to expect to win games and opposition developed better tactics to stop us. That combined with tired players, and a loss of rhythm in the playing style from playing the same team all the time.

So the team expected to win games? You mean, develop a winning mentality? I'm not sure about the rotation issue either to be honest, we rotated brilliantly during the Europa league giving our youngsters a chance and keeping vdV out of it (against his wishes). The 2nd half of the season was harder but can you imagine the uproar if we'd dropped Modric or Rafa or Walker or Bale etc to give them a rest against weaker opposition. Harry would've been accused of not taking them seriously. But I agree that he could've rotated more than he did, i just don't see it as much of an issue as others.

I am also with the OP in that yes Harry has done a great job, but people forget Martin Jol led us to 5th twice, once excruciatingly close to 4th, Juande Ramos took us to a Carling Cup win over a side that reached the CL Final.

People haven't forgot what the others did. MJ took us to 2 consecutive 5th place finishes, which was great, but ultimately failed to deliver CL football. Harry delivered. So what's your point? Ramos won a cup 'over a side that reached the CL final'.... So? He then took us well on route to relegation - plus Harry beat Arsenal and 'that team from the CL final' twice in 3 days, as well as City away, to finish 4th the very next season. Jol was great for us, Ramos did ok initially, Harry is better than both by a long way.

I saw Alan Pardew talk about the size of Newcastle and where it belongs and I thought, thats the kind of stuff you want to hear from your manager. David Moyes sometimes criticises the funds he has had but he always is the first defender of Everton as still being a big club. Arsene Wenger - we laugh at this guy the most for his "delusion" over Arsenal and their "title challenges" but hey if I am a fan thats what I want to hear.

Not "I'm happy with 4th" after talking about a title challenge over Xmas, or "look at where Spurs were before I came" yeah sure the club didn't exist before Harry Redknapp came along, or "people get carried away with what Tottenham are doing they need a reality check" we were after 3rd place not the bloody World Club Cup!

So you're basically happy with managers being deluded? And blaming Harry for not being so.

As you say, Harry was saying we were title challengers in January when asked, he obviously changed his tune after the losing streak because, guess what, we were no longer challengers. As for Wenger, he started talking about how good the Europa league was in the last week of the season because he knew there was a big chance of them playing in it. Newcastle back where they belong? What? They are the ultimate 'punch above their weight' team and have no history apart from being an entertaining football team. The reality is, due to other clubs' expenditure and income, 4th is an excellent finish. We're just disappointed that we could've finished above Arsenal quite easily, but didn't. Chelsea winning didn't help either.

I mean I appreciate that a few years ago I would have never thought we'd be in the CL so for Harry to achieve that was magic and he will always have my love and respect for it, however Harry would have jumped for the England job and I'm not convinced he wouldn't jump for the Chelsea job, he has no real loyalty to us and he demonstrated that by talking about England all the time in the middle of our massive slump!

Taking the England job isn't exactly jumping for it. It's the biggest honour in a manager's career. He never brought up England himself during our slump, he was asked endlessly by journos. He was in a no win situation in my opinion. The FA really dwindled and fucked us over with sections coming out and saying he'd be a great manager. If they'd decided a month before picking Roy, why didn't they announce it then? Nice to hear you have love and respect for him though, even though your posts suggest nothing of the sort

Sometimes you need to have ambition and be ruthless, Barcelona did it when they axed Rijkaard, and Newcastle did it when they axed Hughton.

I agree to a certain extent, if Mourinho was available I'd love him to come here. But as I always say, my main beef is about the lack of perspective shown by some. We should be holding Harry in a lot higher regard than we do due to what he's achieved in his tenure, even if people don't like the way he handles himself in interviews etc. People may not like him as a person but they should respect what he's done - not everyone does, as shown on SC.

The fact is we've not had it so good since the 80's so when we stop finishing as high as we've been doing, that's when we'll stop saying it. It just cannot be expected of us at the beginning of a season to just finish above City (billions), Chelsea (billions), Utd (one of the top clubs in the world and record title winners), Liverpool (massive club, bigger stadium, much more money) and Arsenal (qualified for CL every year, 60k stadium). Realistically due to the (lack of) money they spend, Arsenal should be the ones we overtake (and almost did). The fact we have finished above 2 of them is brilliant and we just need to keep on mingling with them over the next few seasons to become established top 3 challengers. If we can push on from that, amazing. If we fall out of that group, that's when we stop saying we've never had it so good.

In my opinion of course.

 

[StartingPrice]

It's got everything to do with everything. It's the context in which the club is plying it's trade. We are also rans in the league and were near unknowns to many people in Europe until CL qualification two years ago. If we truly had the ambition to be the best club in Europe, we wouldn't have signed Saha and Nelsen in the Jan window whilst challenging in the league.

But that has got nothing to do with it...nothing at all.
Accrington Stanley can dream of footballing World domination, if they want...they don't have to justify it in any way - its a dream.

The fact is, that we are starting from a base, in every way, far over and above anything even a team like Sunderland have (and they, currently, have a bigger stadium than us), never mind Accrington Stanley, so, it is well within our purview, as a club, to aspire to being one of the big hitters of the EPL - doesn't mean it will happen, doesn't mean it will be easy, doesn;t mena there aren't bigger clubs - but it does mean we are allowed to aspire.

I am taking it you are one of the younger fans, in comparison to me, KFG. See, to me, Liverpool had one period of (albeit unprecedented) dominance, and before that, they were not that much bigger than us; likewise, up until about 1995, United's trophy haul was pretty similar to ours (they shaded it, for sure, but not too disimilar). We were one fo the Big Five - I grew up with that ethos, and still retain it. Somebody posted, the other day, that we are still the fifth (or was it sixth?) most successful club in English footballing history - and only pushed out a place because of Roman's billions. To still be in that position after two of the most miserable decades in the club's history, should tell you something.

We have finished well above Liverpool for the last three seasons, they have never won the EPL, and, sofar as I can see, we are in a far healthier position than them in almost every way, and yet, so many will not accept that they are anything other than one of the elite clubs.

The fact is, you are right, we do have a smaller stadium, and smaller revenues, and a lesser reputation, than United, and certain of these, in combination, than Citeh and Chelsea, and, let's be honest, the Goons. But no-one argued against that, all we said was that we are allowed to aspire to being one of the big hitters in the EPL. Hell, teams towards the foot of DIv 2, dream of getting into the Prem, and set out to achieve it. Many of them may achieve it, and some of them may be making castles in the air - but they can aspire.

We actually have a hell of a lot going for us: only the Goons are better placed in regard to the FFP regs; we have the state-of-the-art training facility; with have the beginnings of a new stadium; we have one of the most proactive chairmen in the EPL; a host of innovative initiatives, to stimulate our youth system (integration of squads, via dedicated employees, straetegic club relationships, etc); we have a pretty damned decent team; and we have, lets facae it, one of the most evocative old names in English football - we were, rightly, one of the Big Five. From that base, I see no reason why we can't aspire to challenge at the top end of the table for years to come, none at all.

 

[Misfit]

So having top players and quality squad depth does not make a difference in achieving consistant results? Is that what your trying to really trying to tell me?

No. That's a given. But check out how much Liverpool spunk on transfers and wages. Are they getting value for money? We spend enough. Enough to beat Norwich at home anyway.

If you're happy to say that with our squad we shouldn't be dissapointed losing at home to a newly promoted team, going down meekly away to another or dropping pts in 3 games against the relegated teams two yrs ago, then fine. I'm not over the moon about it though and want that to improve. It's not an unreasonable POV. At all. In any way.

 

[hybridsoldier]

I'm not gonna quote your post because its gonna end up making the thread too long.

I definitely see your point of view and think some of your points are correct.

RE: England job

Harry didn't exactly play it down did he? How many times have we seen other managers tell the press that certain questions are off the agenda. In all the madness we had Martin O'Neill and Fergie saying it HAS to be Harry, only David Moyes had the common sense to say its disrespectful to talk about Harry for England as he is employed by Spurs. Whatever people want to say there is no doubt that this speculation coincided with our worst run of form and played a part - even Harry's coach staff have said so.

RE: Rotation

Yes what we did with Europa League was smart, and nearly got away with it too. Out of the group and into the knock out and I am sure Harry would have played all the big boys. It is a smart strategy and we should do it again depending on the group we get. However, the team was performing at 100% in the league for a long stretch of time, we didn't play many games compared to other sides in cups and Europe BUT the players were playing at such an intensity that they were not gonna be able to do it all season. City and United were the top 2 by far because they continually rotate - maybe we don't have as many quality of players but in terms of depth we can compete with everyone else. Defoe, one of Harry's favourite players and who is close to the manager himself said that Harry wasn't telling him why he's not in the team.

RE: Competing with other clubs

Yes we keep hearing about the wages and the money etc, but at the end of the day it's not like Spurs are paupers, we pay good wages and we have stars recognised Europe wide like VDV, Bale, Modric, and Adebayor. We always here everyone talking about how good the squad is, at times people have said we have the best bench in the league. Its not like we expect to win the league, but it would be nice if the manager spoke positively about the club rather than continually poo-pooing our expectations to keep himself in the job!

Oh and theres a difference between a "winning mentality" and becoming complacent.

Also I have backed Harry for years, I do like him however much his negative comments about our ambitions hurt me. I think finally I have to accept all those around me who complained about him not using subs quickly and effective and always picking the same side had a point

Like I did finish on though, Harry is a safe bet and will stay as manager and I will back him - however guilty he was in the humiliating collapse from 3rd to straight out of the Champions League

 

[StartingPrice]

Yes what we did with Europa League was smart, and nearly got away with it too. Out of the group and into the knock out and I am sure Harry would have played all the big boys.

You are probably right, on this...but VdV wasn't even included in the Europa squad (maybe he could've been added in Jan, of we had that far, though - I'm not sure).

 

[bomberH]

Hybrid.

I agree the England thing affected our form, certainly. But I'm not sure what else Harry could've done. He hadn't been offered the job so couldn't come out and say he didn't want it etc. As you say, all but one of the other prem managers kept bigging him up and he was in the middle of it all. He could've said 'no England questions please' but he's never been like that with the media, he's always willing to answer questions and it would've been out of character for him to tell the media to stop. I blame Terry. ****.

I agree with the Europa stuff and it is difficult to change a winning team if they're playing so well, even if it did have an adverse affect eventually.

We're certainly not paupers, correct, but offering someone 70k is still far short of offering them 150k or in some cases, 250k. We all know what footballers are about nowadays and the sad fact is that 90% of the top players want to earn as much as they can (as well as playing CL footie). Harry only poo poo's us (love that term) when he's on the defensive. I've heard him say a number of times that Spurs are a top club and should be challenging for titles and CL football etc. He's always saying how great a history we have and talking about our old players. He does say these things but it's largely forgotten because he says that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves when we're playing badly.

I'm shocked he didn't get the England job. I accepted he'd be gone now but now he's staying, I'm happy. I honestly don't think there are too many managers who could better what he's done at this stage. Of course Mourinho and the really big boys would be great but Lambert, Rodgers, Martinez etc all untested at a big club. It's a risk getting one of them in and I personally hope Levy would be looking at one of the big boys if he was to replace Harry. Harry was a million percent the right man at the right time for us and what we need now more than ever, if he was to leave, is a manager who's been there and won stuff. No time for risks. And being that Harry has proved himself amongst the top managers/clubs over the last 3 seasons, there's not too many available who can take us much further forward, in my opinion.

 

[vegassd]

If you're happy to say that with our squad we shouldn't be dissapointed losing at home to a newly promoted team, going down meekly away to another or dropping pts in 3 games against the relegated teams two yrs ago, then fine. I'm not over the moon about it though and want that to improve. It's not an unreasonable POV. At all. In any way.

I think everyone was disappointed with that. Our run-in should have been the saving grace of our season but it turned into a nightmare. However, it's worth remembering that "there are no easy games" because it's a cliche that rings true. If game results were solely based on total wages then nobody would bother watching.

The perspective comes into it when you judge Harry on his merits during his entire time at Spurs. Just because we had a crap run of form doesn't mean that he is solely to blame and should be sacked. We missed out on CL qualification by one goal (pretty much), which in terms of Spurs over the past 2 decades is incredible! That's how long I've been watching Spurs myself so that's what I'm judging on.

I pretty much agree with everything bomber is saying (scary thought) and that our club is right up there, even though it might not be quite where we want it. Without a sugar daddy we aren't going to become world beaters over night. We should look to improve steadily, and I don't think that shipping out the manager our players are the best ways to do that. Last time we dropped a decent manager for a fancy-pants one we got the old "2 points from 8 games".

 

[Misfit]

Soz - didn't make myself clear, this wasnt a "get out H and take Bond with you!" post. Not a huge H fan but I'm not climbing the walls in anticipation of him leaving. He's proved me wrong before (massivly so) and so why couldn't he again? If he starts to view the 25 senior players as a first team squad rather than a first 11 and 14 lepers, we'll go a long way to improving our consistency I think. Sure, we might lose 6 or 7 pts here and there in some games but due to fresher players in the second half of the season we might pick up 11 or 12 pts we otherwise might not have done. We'd come out ahead in other words.

But yeah, back the "we've never had it so good stuff". Well, I personally haven't. Really became aware of Spurs in the late 80's but properly came of age in 90. An FA cup and then eff all until DL and ENIC arrived. We pushed on under H and finally got the CL. Wahey. Outstanding stuff from everyone.

It will be difficult to push on another level of course but we are so damn close. And I think the squad as it stands (assuming Ade re-signs or a comparable striker is brought in etc) has more than enough to help us move up a notch. Obviously, the next 20 yrs will be cemented once the stadium is built but why not go and try and get ourselves settled into the top 4 in the meantime.

Two yrs running, sloppiness has cost us. Utterly abysmal runs. Once, even taking into account the dropped pts to the bottom 3, we were still only 6 pts off CL football again.We all know what happened this season. Just 1 pt off.

Mentality is what we're missing, imo. The "next game we play is the most important game we've ever played" mentality. 2 or 3 bad games, sure. But these weeks and months in the doldrums are killing us. We seem to slip into funks and they come out of nowehere.

All I ask for is a sign that that aspect is improving and no strawman arguments (not directed at you) about wages will change that. We have the talent. Now comes the hard bit I guess. Building the foundations of success cus talent alone isn't going to cut it.

It's only fair to lump that responsibility onto H and the other coaches I think. Kinda, sorta the point of employing them no?

 

[hybridsoldier]

I've heard him say a number of times that Spurs are a top club and should be challenging for titles and CL football etc. He's always saying how great a history we have and talking about our old players.

Yeah when he talks about Cliff Jones, and Greaves and Dave Mackay...I love it, I feel then that he understands more than a lot about our rich history and it's every fans dream really.

I think the thing with Harry is he really does change his mind every other week and he's so open with the press (Btw am I the only one who finds it odd we haven't heard from him in a week or so ?! lol) that he sends mixed messages and it can be frustrating. A lot of non-Spurs fans do rib me about Harry and his ramblings but he's definitely improved the profile of the club as the neutral fans like him.

It does worry me if England have a bad Euros that the Sun has already got an agenda against Roy and we will be faced with all this again going into the WC qualifiers. I just want stability in the long term like we all do (yeah I know how ironic it is talking about changing manager bringing stability lol), I in no way would be angry if Harry wants to be England Manager, I'd back him for it as an England fan, but I feel like its all coming at a cost to Spurs.

All I can say is I hope Harry learned lessons from this season and takes that into the next term. Without CL Football and using the same approach in the Europa League , we have no excuse not to have another good league campaign.

 

[vegassd]

Mentality is what we're missing, imo. The "next game we play is the most important game we've ever played" mentality. 2 or 3 bad games, sure. But these weeks and months in the doldrums are killing us. We seem to slip into funks and they come out of nowehere.

All I ask for is a sign that that aspect is improving and no strawman arguments (not directed at you) about wages will change that. We have the talent. Now comes the hard bit I guess. Building the foundations of success cus talent alone isn't going to cut it.

It's only fair to lump that responsibility onto H and the other coaches I think. Kinda, sorta the point of employing them no?

Agree with everything else you said - and in terms of "never had it better" I think I'm on about the same Spurs timescale as you so I'm definitely happy with that statement! I think there was more to our slump (this season at least) than just the mentality aspect.

We were pretty damn good against United I thought. And in the majority of the later games we were in the ascendancy and creating far more chances than our opponents. That simply doesn't happen to a team who have given up or who haven't been coached properly.

We conceded a goal to Villa from a freaky forehead deflection. Yes, we should have pushed on and probably still won that, have ourselves to blame etc. but it's not like we didn't try. 60% possession and 19 shots. QPR: 70% possession and 18 shots, Norwich: 60% possession and 13 shots. These are games that we dominated but we have to accept that we won't win every game that we dominate. I really can't see how those sorts of dominance figures can be associated with a bad mentality.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way happy that we didn't seal 3rd place earlier, but I don't think it's at all productive to point fingers.... especially when those fingers are probably pointing in the wrong direction. Maybe we just had our "how did we not win that game" run all at the same time, whereas the 11 game winning streak was thankfully void of those types of games.

 

[ItsBoris]

I sometimes wish people would shut the fuck up before saying this. It's so annoying. The whole fun of it should be the ambition to be better. That requires taking risks, and looking forward not backward. If we take a risk and it fails, we are really no worse off than we are now (no CL). If it succeeds we could actually win something (god forbid we lowly spurs ever have ambitions).

Better to try and achieve something great than perpetually be in the doldrums of Europa league places, rarely if ever breaking through to the CL. I just don't want our manager saying shit like "it's difficult...Arsenal, they're always there....Chelsea, Liverpool........the Manchester clubs...blah blah blah blah" spouting off crap. Grow a pair and be a man and aim to WIN, because that is what WINNERS do no matter what. Even if woefully under-matched, in anything in life you should always be trying to win. "Being realistic" is the buzz phrase of losers.

 

[ItsBoris]

only losers say that. i'm serious. of every competition, the winner will always say i was here to win all along, and the loser will always say "oh you know sometimes the experience is really important, i was never here to win but to gain experience". you hear this in school, in ur sports activities, in your sunday league football. the losers and the people who dont achieve their dreams will always, always say this. and the problem is this mentality will never ever build characters, let alone champions

winners always say fight hard and give everything you've got. arnold says that, jordan says that, kobe bryant says that, ronnie coleman says that. everyone at the highest level, and have achieved those levels, understand that mentality is the most important in sports. on paper one might be better, but once the whistle blows, all bets are off. the one with the biggest heart will ALWAYS win. and even if he doesnt this time, he will always,always try, until they finally win.

the mentality instilled in us is that, oh we used to suck, so this is good enough. is it? so just because we used to suck, we can continue to suck? one thing about redknapp that bothers me is that he doesnt instill the winning mentality. unlike fergie, unlike mourinho. these managers taught their players losing is not an option, let alone losing to a lower opponent, thats absolute disgrace. these mentality is instilled into players from roy keane, to solksjaer, to giggs, to scholes, to rooney, to ronaldo, drogba, lampard, terry, cole . these players always perform when they are needed to. they understand when they are down, they have to get a goal back no matter what. and when they do, they know they have to win it, no matter what. they dont rest, they dont settle for second. they dont go, oh well we derserve to draw anyways. no. one chance. and thats all it takes. that amount of concentration, amount of composure, amount of mentality

i love HR. but i feel the weak mentality in our squad is partly his fault. i would love someone younger, and a much stronger mentality to takeover when HR finally leaves. only then our squad will truly grow. we had title at our grasp, we had third on our hand. we have no excuses

Absolutely fantastic post. Like Bobby Jones said "Competitive golf is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch course...the space between your ears." But I would say that is true of all sports, of any degree of competitiveness. Harry often pins losses down to 'one of those days,' instead of questioning WHY it is one of those days. From watching him he seems to accept that losing occasionally happens. And it's true that everyone loses sometimes, but that doesn't mean it should be regarded as acceptable. Maybe that's why this season we've lost 6 times to top 4 teams and only got 1 win.

 

[michaelden]

I don't think it is a bad thing to be reminded occasionally where we have come from in a relatively short space of time, but also pointing out where we should be aiming for is not mutually exclusive to the former.

I love the fact that I get to go to Wembley on a regular basis now, that I have seen us compete with Europe's finest in some of the most historic, famous stadiums, and that we are now no longer satisfied with competing in the Europa League. I love watching the likes of Bale/Modric/VDV and you know how far you've come when I count Huddlestone, Dawson and Defoe as the weakest links in our squad.

We've had some amazing times, but I want better times, but if it does all blow over I will cherish some of the moments we've had in recent times. I think that's fair.

eh? A footballers playing span is 12 years (18-32, simplistic I know) but we've been building for longer than that. If you truly building a football team like Fergie, its done in 6 years, peaks for 2-5 then the rebuilding starts again.