AVB: Adebayor has a Spurs role

[Shadydan]

Why are all these fucking articles so reluctant to mention that he missed about 5 or 6 games because of injury?

Was having a conversation yesterday with a Man Utd supporting mate, although he knows his football and generally likes Spurs, anyway he asked me why Ade hasn't been playing and was generally dumbfounded as to why Defoe keeps getting picked over him. When I told him that Ade had been injured and had missed a significant part of the season he didn't believe me, we had to go Google it just to prove my point, it took about 5 mins after that for the penny to drop ffs lol

 

[sloth]

Absolutely agree. It works the other way too. Ade isn't the only one with feelings. Indeed, if what I suggest has any truth to it, allowing Ade to march straight into the team could have an even worse effect on other players. AVB is paid to manage an entire squad and must put the overall group's interests first. Obviously whilst trying to be all things to all men but only up to a certain point.

Lastly, and I accept we''ve all been conditioned to think otherwise in the footballing world, these are adults getting paid a fortune. Time for them to show some personal responsibility and motivation. And they all have that or they'd never have made it to the top.

They get no free passes from me. I expect exactly the same from my kids, as most parents do. Enough fawning to the nth degree.

I think part of the problem is I just can't quite accept that AVB sees Defoe as a better option for the lone striker than Adebayor. Because I can't - because he obviously fucking isn't - then it puts focus on the motivational aspect to AVB's choice. But when you look at it like that, you have to ask what lifts morale the most (or crushes it)? The answer is winning (or losing). So that's the prime objective, winning games will have the single biggest effect on morale, it's effect will dwarf any of the bullshit, peripheral player specific motivational stuff. Pick the team most likely to win. However, do not ignore the detail, pick the team, but be explicit about why, give players who respond to a kick up the backside, a kick, give the players who prefer an arm around the shoulder, an arm around the shoulder etc. But that comes secondary to trying to win games.

Leaving aside all of the above though, I don't think Ade is being treated in a consistent way. I can't see any difference between Dempsey's pre-season, and Ade's. I don't understand why Dempsey is an automatic starter over Ade in the same position? Only thing I can think is that AVB thinks Dempsey's all around contribution to the side when he's not scoring is better than Ade's would be. Which seems obtuse again. In fact, my huge fear is that AVB doesn't actually know what he's doing, that he actually believes a team where Defoe plays lone striker is more likely to win matches than the team where Ade plays that role. Just like he seems to believe that Friedel is a better option than Lloris.

 

[Stavrogin]

In fact, my huge fear is that AVB doesn't actually know what he's doing, that he actually believes a team where Defoe plays lone striker is more likely to win matches than the team where Ade plays that role. Just like he seems to believe that Friedel is a better option than Lloris.

That is a legitimate concern... that AVB is slightly mad - or at least unreasonably defiant. I can imagine a situation where he sees Defoe training well, being diligent etc. Whereas Adebayor arrives late, seems complacent and so on. Add to that Defoe's early promising performances, apparent seniority and the idea that AVB's doing something unexpected and impressive. It could well be that he's become fixed in his mind.

I doubt it though. I'd wager he's just being cautious. He may know that when he's ready Adebayor will start, so he's giving everyone else every opportunity now.

That or Adebayor is playing up. He rejoins like a returning hero but finds a different situation. Top players gone, new regime, perhaps less welcoming than Redknapp.. EEP

 

[Bus-Conductor]

That is a legitimate concern... that AVB is slightly mad - or at least unreasonably defiant. I can imagine a situation where he sees Defoe training well, being diligent etc. Whereas Adebayor arrives late, seems complacent and so on. Add to that Defoe's early promising performances, apparent seniority and the idea that AVB's doing something unexpected and impressive. It could well be that he's become fixed in his mind.

I doubt it though. I'd wager he's just being cautious. He may know that when he's ready Adebayor will start, so he's giving everyone else every opportunity now.

That or Adebayor is playing up. He rejoins like a returning hero but finds a different situation. Top players gone, new regime, perhaps less welcoming than Redknapp.. EEP

If it is this, it would more understandable. Ferguson has cut his nose off to spite his face many times over the years to teach players a lesson like this.

I have a genuine fear that AVB is picking Defoe on what he perceives as merit. Which as Sloth says, would be worrying and appear to confirm your first line diagnosis.

I'm clutching at straws here, but I hoped putting Friedel back in goal and Adebayor on the bench last week was because he deemed that Lloris and Adebayor had had tougher International weeks.

The decision to reinstate Friedel was piss poor. Lloris had been slowly introduced, kept a clean sheet then had a great game in Spain for France and his confidence would have been sky high. To then be demoted to watch Friedel have a howler isn't going to do his psyche any good.

 

[yanno]

If it is this, it would more understandable. Ferguson has cut his nose off to spite his face many times over the years to teach players a lesson like this.

I have a genuine fear that AVB is picking Defoe on what he perceives as merit. Which as Sloth says, would be worrying and appear to confirm your first line diagnosis.

I'm clutching at straws here, but I hoped putting Friedel back in goal and Adebayor on the bench last week was because he deemed that Lloris and Adebayor had had tougher International weeks.

The decision to reinstate Friedel was piss poor. Lloris had been slowly introduced, kept a clean sheet then had a great game in Spain for France and his confidence would have been sky high. To then be demoted to watch Friedel have a howler isn't going to do his psyche any good.

I share your fears.

However, whilst I want Ade in the team as soon as he's properly fit, in my judgement he behaved unprofessionally in the summer.

We were the only club seriously in for him, and we were offering a long contract and the biggest wages in our history. His only other options were a season in Man Shitty's reserves or to do an Eto'o or Anelka and move to Dagestan or China for insane money.

Not only did Ade take forever to sign the deal, but he clearly didn't keep himself fit either.

Modric hired a top personal trainer so that he would be in good physical shape, just lacking match fitness, when he got his move. Ade seemed to spend the summer jetting round the States attending every sporting event he could. If AVB is telling him that he needs to be more professional, then that's fine. However, as BC said about Fergie cutting off his nose to spite his face, it shouldn't be a personal feud with no end date (or in Red Nose's case, where the end is selling the player).

With our current squad, a fit Adebayor dramatically improves our team.

 

[panoma]

I used to be in the "ship Defoe away" camp, but after the start of this season i have totally changed my opinion of him. Cant believe so many want him out and still go on about how he contribute nothing, when the truth is this season he have been amongst our best players and after AVB got here he seems to be working harder than ever.

In his few apperances this season Ade havent showed anything that suggest he should be an automatic starter for us. As angry as i used to get whenever Defoe played in previous seasons, i will say he have earned the right to keep beeing our number one league striker for the time beeing.

Let Ade start the cup and europe games and show us he deserve to start in the league to! (I can imagine it must be bad for morale if players on form get dropped based on last seasons merits).

Cant believe lloris dont start though, almost embarrasing having one of the worlds best keepers on the bench in favour of a 41 year old thats nothing more than avarage.

 

[dontcallme]

The way I see it AVB has had to do a major restructuring job. He lost King, Modric and VDV and had to start building a team in his image. Impossible to do in one summer.

I think/hope that he doesn't see changing the entire team as a good way forward straight-away.

In goal he has a good keeper so for now happy to keep him in.

In defence he seems happy to keep Walker and BAE as our full-backs and he wanted Kaboul to partner Vertonghen so in defence there would be only one change. With Kaboul injured he's had to make two and hopefully AVb now trustd Caulker more than Gallas and Dawson.

In midfield an overhaul had to be done. Parker out and Modric and VDV leaving he had no choice but to play a completely new midfield. Sandro, Dembele and one other has decent balance. He tried Livermore at the beginning but his performances weren't good enough.

He's kept Bale and Lennon as our wingers. With Adebayor having fitness issues maybe AVB decided in the short-term it's best to play someone who has been at the club for a long time.

AVB was questionned intensely about the major changes he made at Chelsea and he spoke of not doing the same thing again here.

I believe Adebayor will start once fit and Defoe has a few games without scoring. Come the end of the season I predict more big changes in personnel as AVB looks for a player in Moutinho's mould and a striker who can lead the line in the long-term.

In the short-term Defoe is scoring while Adebayor gets back to match-fit. It's not perfect but it's working ok.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

In the short-term Defoe is scoring while Adebayor gets back to match-fit. It's not perfect but it's working ok.

Hooray, a brain.

Up to this point, it's another comedy thread. Full of idiot posts by blind fuckwits who have made up their minds without bothering to watch the football.

Adebayor. Is. Not. Fully Fit. Yet. AVB sees him in training every day. He knows what he can do well when he is fit (pass, hold the ball up and score headers and tap-ins) and what he cannot do so well (shoot, dribble and make decoy runs). He knows what Defoe can do well (score goals out of nothing, shoot hard and on target, hold the ball up passably well, run with the ball and make decoy runs) and what he cannot do so well (pass, set up teammates, head the ball).

Partly, he's playing Defoe because he can see that Defoe responds well to being loved. But mostly he's playing Defoe because Adebayor had no pre-season and then got injured. They'll both get plenty of game time in the end.

I'm more interested in the mentality and motivation of the people who infest threads like this, desperate to have a moan. Bad people. Nasty humans.

 

[rich75]

Hooray, a brain.

Up to this point, it's another comedy thread. Full of idiot posts by blind fuckwits who have made up their minds without bothering to watch the football.

Adebayor. Is. Not. Fully Fit. Yet. AVB sees him in training every day. He knows what he can do well when he is fit (pass, hold the ball up and score headers and tap-ins) and what he cannot do so well (shoot, dribble and make decoy runs). He knows what Defoe can do well (score goals out of nothing, shoot hard and on target, hold the ball up passably well, run with the ball and make decoy runs) and what he cannot do so well (pass, set up teammates, head the ball).

Partly, he's playing Defoe because he can see that Defoe responds well to being loved. But mostly he's playing Defoe because Adebayor had no pre-season and then got injured. They'll both get plenty of game time in the end.

I'm more interested in the mentality and motivation of the people who infest threads like this, desperate to have a moan. Bad people. Nasty humans.

Which is all very well and good except that isn't what AVB said. What he said was this :

I think Ade has done extremely well in the games where he has come in for the squad, certainly he is in contention for games where we play with two strikers.
"At the moment we haven't found the comfort in that formation yet, but in the future when we use it, when we rotate the strikers he will be back in contention."

Which doesn't mention at all any concerns about fitness but concerns about where Adebayor fits into the system which he wants to play. It also implies that when we aren't playing with 2 strikers then Adebyaor isn't being considered which considering Defoe's limitations at holding up the ball would seem somewhat bizarre.

Still, carry on with your parallel version of events.

 

[daehanmingook]

I don't know much about the situation with Ade, but in terms of Friedel, there was an interview with him where he mentioned that AVB had promised to play him against Chelsea when he dropped him before the break. So Lloris was never in contention to play against Chelsea.

 

[sloth]

I used to be in the "ship Defoe away" camp, but after the start of this season i have totally changed my opinion of him. Cant believe so many want him out and still go on about how he contribute nothing, when the truth is this season he have been amongst our best players and after AVB got here he seems to be working harder than ever.

In his few apperances this season Ade havent showed anything that suggest he should be an automatic starter for us. As angry as i used to get whenever Defoe played in previous seasons, i will say he have earned the right to keep beeing our number one league striker for the time beeing.

Let Ade start the cup and europe games and show us he deserve to start in the league to! (I can imagine it must be bad for morale if players on form get dropped based on last seasons merits).

Cant believe lloris dont start though, almost embarrasing having one of the worlds best keepers on the bench in favour of a 41 year old thats nothing more than avarage.

We play two wingers right? So when they get to the byline, who do they have in the middle to cross the ball to? If we're under a bit of defensive pressure who do we have to clear the ball up to? And not having that out ball gives the opposition licence to push up on our defence and midfield, further increasing the pressure. Then there's just the general types of hold-up play which gives midfielders the opportunity to run beyond the striker. After which we get onto clever movement and a willingness to get involved in build-up play (this can be clearly seen in stats such as the number of touches a player has during a match, and the number of passes he makes in a game, for which Defoe is head and shoulders less involved than any equivalent player in any of the top European leagues.), but others will wrongly say that it isn't about the number of goals a team as a who;le concedes or scores but only about the individual player, but even on this account (and without looking it up), I'd be amazed if in Adebayor's career his goals scoring record hasn't been superior to Defoe's in his career. That's before assists are looked at.

All of that said, I agree that Defoe has in the odd game looked better this year than last, it's inconsistent, but there are signs of him improving. I also think that come what may AVB is going to stick with him (perhaps simply to prove what an amazing coach he is???), in which case you have to play Adebayor as well. Dempsey's the real player who is not worth his place in the side, imo.

 

[sloth]

The way I see it AVB has had to do a major restructuring job. He lost King, Modric and VDV and had to start building a team in his image. Impossible to do in one summer.

I think/hope that he doesn't see changing the entire team as a good way forward straight-away.

In goal he has a good keeper so for now happy to keep him in.

In defence he seems happy to keep Walker and BAE as our full-backs and he wanted Kaboul to partner Vertonghen so in defence there would be only one change. With Kaboul injured he's had to make two and hopefully AVb now trustd Caulker more than Gallas and Dawson.

In midfield an overhaul had to be done. Parker out and Modric and VDV leaving he had no choice but to play a completely new midfield. Sandro, Dembele and one other has decent balance. He tried Livermore at the beginning but his performances weren't good enough.

He's kept Bale and Lennon as our wingers. With Adebayor having fitness issues maybe AVB decided in the short-term it's best to play someone who has been at the club for a long time.

AVB was questionned intensely about the major changes he made at Chelsea and he spoke of not doing the same thing again here.

I believe Adebayor will start once fit and Defoe has a few games without scoring. Come the end of the season I predict more big changes in personnel as AVB looks for a player in Moutinho's mould and a striker who can lead the line in the long-term.

In the short-term Defoe is scoring while Adebayor gets back to match-fit. It's not perfect but it's working ok.

If he is thinking that than it's complete bullshit.

 

[sloth]

Hooray, a brain.

Up to this point, it's another comedy thread. Full of idiot posts by blind fuckwits who have made up their minds without bothering to watch the football.

Adebayor. Is. Not. Fully Fit. Yet. AVB sees him in training every day. He knows what he can do well when he is fit (pass, hold the ball up and score headers and tap-ins) and what he cannot do so well (shoot, dribble and make decoy runs). He knows what Defoe can do well (score goals out of nothing, shoot hard and on target, hold the ball up passably well, run with the ball and make decoy runs) and what he cannot do so well (pass, set up teammates, head the ball).

Partly, he's playing Defoe because he can see that Defoe responds well to being loved. But mostly he's playing Defoe because Adebayor had no pre-season and then got injured. They'll both get plenty of game time in the end.

I'm more interested in the mentality and motivation of the people who infest threads like this, desperate to have a moan. Bad people. Nasty humans.

Oooohhhhh you're on for the full house of ratings, it's got be one of each, but with no doubles!!

 

[dontcallme]

If he is thinking that than it's complete bullshit.

Why? We are doing well. We've lost our three best players, have several injuries and have had a bit of a squad overhaul.

AVB was getting booed by portions of our own fans in his first home game so I can understand his desire to get results. If Adebayor and Lloris aren't playing more regularly soon then I'll worry but for now we are getting results.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I really hope Ade plays today.

 

[sloth]

Why? We are doing well. We've lost our three best players, have several injuries and have had a bit of a squad overhaul.

AVB was getting booed by portions of our own fans in his first home game so I can understand his desire to get results. If Adebayor and Lloris aren't playing more regularly soon then I'll worry but for now we are getting results.

I think we both agree that a team which plays 4231 and features Lloris and Adebayor, rather than Friedel and Defoe will win more and lose fewer matches. So I think it's bullshit that he'd pick Defoe and Friedel because he's worried about bad press, or he's trying some psychological mind game. I think the morale gained from winning more and losing fewer outweighs the morale boost gained from mind-games but winning fewer and losing more.

 

[dontcallme]

I think we both agree that a team which plays 4231 and features Lloris and Adebayor, rather than Friedel and Defoe will win more and lose fewer matches. So I think it's bullshit that he'd pick Defoe and Friedel because he's worried about bad press, or he's trying some psychological mind game. I think the morale gained from winning more and losing fewer outweighs the morale boost gained from mind-games but winning fewer and losing more.

Not really talking about bad press. My point is more about not putting out a completely new team.

At Chelsea he needed to make big changes and he has admitted that he might have tried to do too much too quickly. He is under pressure to produce good results.

Despite the major overhaul he has Friedel, Walker, Sandro, Bale, Lennon and Defoe all playing most game at the moment. We are getting good results so I don't understand why some are making such a huge deal about Friedel and Defoe playing. I believe in the short-term allowing Llloris to settle in and Adebayor to get back to full fitness might be getting us better results.

In the long-term Lloris and Adebayor should play and I'll be worried if they are not by Christmas. At the moment I don't think there should be a drama.

 

[sloth]

Not really talking about bad press. My point is more about not putting out a completely new team.

At Chelsea he needed to make big changes and he has admitted that he might have tried to do too much too quickly. He is under pressure to produce good results.

Despite the major overhaul he has Friedel, Walker, Sandro, Bale, Lennon and Defoe all playing most game at the moment. We are getting good results so I don't understand why some are making such a huge deal about Friedel and Defoe playing. I believe in the short-term allowing Llloris to settle in and Adebayor to get back to full fitness might be getting us better results.

In the long-term Lloris and Adebayor should play and I'll be worried if they are not by Christmas. At the moment I don't think there should be a drama.

I agree with your last sentence.

I think what he did at Chelsea is irrelevant to the argument being made. You should simply put out the team most likely to see us win the greatest number, and lose the fewest number of matches over a season. There are no circumstances in which you should put out a team for psychological reasons but which will harm our chances of doing the aforementioned. If you think Lloris is beig allowed to settle in and AVB's applying googd man-management to him, and the same to Adebayor (who by the way represents the continuation from last year, not Defoe) then fair enough. I don't.

 

[steve]

Hooray, a brain.

Up to this point, it's another comedy thread. Full of idiot posts by blind fuckwits who have made up their minds without bothering to watch the football.

Adebayor. Is. Not. Fully Fit. Yet. AVB sees him in training every day. He knows what he can do well when he is fit (pass, hold the ball up and score headers and tap-ins) and what he cannot do so well (shoot, dribble and make decoy runs). He knows what Defoe can do well (score goals out of nothing, shoot hard and on target, hold the ball up passably well, run with the ball and make decoy runs) and what he cannot do so well (pass, set up teammates, head the ball).

Partly, he's playing Defoe because he can see that Defoe responds well to being loved. But mostly he's playing Defoe because Adebayor had no pre-season and then got injured. They'll both get plenty of game time in the end.

I'm more interested in the mentality and motivation of the people who infest threads like this, desperate to have a moan. Bad people. Nasty humans.

The ego has landed.

You once again show up your lack of understanding of the finer points of the game. So Defoe makes 'decoy' runs but Ade doesn't? When did you arrive at this conclusion? After Bale's goal at OT? You tell us what AVB is thinking (despite quotes to the contrary) but can't even manage to surmise both players qualities properly. On top of your completely unnecessary vitriol (what a keyboard warrior you are) this renders your post, even by your low standards as one of your worst.

Do us all a favour please, stick to the stadium thread where you occasionally add some value because you really don't know much about the game. And I know your ego tells you differently but it's wrong.

 

[JAYSTAR]

The ego has landed.

You once again show up your lack of understanding of the finer points of the game. So Defoe makes 'decoy' runs but Ade doesn't? When did you arrive at this conclusion? After Bale's goal at OT? You tell us what AVB is thinking (despite quotes to the contrary) but can't even manage to surmise both players qualities properly. On top of your completely unnecessary vitriol (what a keyboard warrior you are) this renders your post, even by your low standards as one of your worst.

Do us all a favour please, stick to the stadium thread where you occasionally add some value because you really don't know much about the game. And I know your ego tells you differently but it's wrong.

I 'disliked' the way you made your comment so personal and negative Steve. If it makes you feel better to 'dislike' some random thread of mine like you just did - so be it - but maybe you could bear in mind you don't speak for everybody on here and you are not the authority on what's right or wrong about spurs. That's why we have a forum - to share opinions and discuss different perspectives, none of us are ever going to get it all right, so why get so worked up about it? At least, if you disagree or dislike this comment I will understand why - otherwise why not just take it on the chin that someone didn't like the comment you made and not go desperately trying to dislike something they've said?

I agree with davidmatzdorf that Ade is not fully fit and up for the games, which makes sense given that he's just been injured.. right? What are the finer points of football that only you seem to know about?