AVB or Bale?

[Blackcanary]

All AVB did to accommodate Bale was to start him and sometimes switch him to a central or opposite side role.. Occasionally this was fruitful and sometimes not.

In any case, Bale was on FIRE all season and I don't think that it's down to AVB at all and tbf Bale carried the rest of the team. There were no other stand out performers for me. Everyone else had a very very average or below average season.

I'm not implyign AVB is a bad manager - i just don't think he's anything special.

Was he? I remember him starting to have great form around November (ish), but not before that. Both Defoe and Lennon were in good form in the early part of the season when he wasn't though.

 

[yiddo_4eva]

Personally, i think we should get rid of them both and bring back Ossie and his gung ho all out attack approach and then with the Bale funds, spend it on the likes of Rebrov, Rasiak, Bent, Mido and Pavlyuchenko.

Any remaining cash can then be used to expand the depth of the squad, Bentley and Gallas are available apparently!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

And you don't think that AVB gets any credit at all for arranging the team so that Bale could score those goals despite having his best players sold?

AVB got a higher points total than we've ever got, with a squad that was almost certainly weaker than the squad we had last season. If you want to put that down just to one player then fine...but I'd argue that is incredibly short-sighted.

I'm trying not to get involved in this back and forth, but seeing as Bale scored the most goals from outside the box in the prem that has ever been, I would be shocked if someone who is as methodical as AVB simply said to the players "When Gaz gets the ball, no fucker get in the way of it!"

AVB's done good things, but in the same way I don't credit any of the coaches for the brilliance of Messi/Ronaldo and I certainly don't credit Brent-an Rodgers for Luis Suarez, Bale is a superstar in his own right.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I'm trying not to get involved in this back and forth, but seeing as Bale scored the most goals from outside the box in the prem that has ever been, I would be shocked if someone who is as methodical as AVB simply said to the players "When Gaz gets the ball, no fucker get in the way of it!"

AVB's done good things, but in the same way I don't credit any of the coaches for the brilliance of Messi/Ronaldo and I certainly don't credit Brent-an Rodgers for Luis Suarez, Bale is a superstar in his own right.

I'm not for a minute saying Bale isn't a superstar. But are we suggesting that he simply became a superstar overnight or do the coaching staff and AVB actually get some credit for giving him the freedom to do what he's best at?

Harry used Bale as a provider...AVB has helped him become more of a goal-scorer. I don't think AVB is more important than Bale, but to not give AVB any credit for Bale's sudden increase in goals seems very unfair to me.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I'm not for a minute saying Bale isn't a superstar. But are we suggesting that he simply became a superstar overnight or do the coaching staff and AVB actually get some credit for giving him the freedom to do what he's best at?

Harry used Bale as a provider...AVB has helped him become more of a goal-scorer. I don't think AVB is more important than Bale, but to not give AVB any credit for Bale's sudden increase in goals seems very unfair to me.

A lot of direct free-kicks and long range efforts though. That's all I'm saying, and he played the free role the year before too.

I'm not not giving AVB credit, I'm just not giving him the credit for it.

Word.

 

[Mullers]

AVB. We nearly got fourth despite the fact we lost our two best players and replaced them with players who are not as good, it was his decision to put Bale as a striker to solve the problem of Levy missing out on a striker yet again and our two other strikers misfiring. We took 4 points off Man U for the first time in decades I think.

 

[dk-yid]

Bold 1) Man Utd have won title upon title relying on late goals, resilience and never say die attitude under Fergie.
- Fair point, but tbh, the late goals were mostly scored by Bale anyway, so further backs up my points.

Bold 2) Well, Bale didn't say that. He said his goals and form were down to a team effort and working with AVB.
- That's just Bale being gentleman-like. That's Bale for you.

Bold 3) Here I was thinking that was part of a managers job ....
- We both know Bale isn't a player (anymore) that needs a manager to show him love to perform. It's like saying Ronaldo wouldn't be as good under a different manager! That's bull and we both know it..

Personally I think all players need their managers to show them love - they are a fragile bunch of prima donnas the lot of them. But forget that, IMO even the best players need to be played in their best possible position balanced with the team they are. Even Ronaldo. And I think that moving Bale central and giving him the free role was a gret move. It had been tried with some success under Redknapp (Norwich) but most of the time is hampered our general play and rendered Bale inefficient and leaving us all to moan (cue 'He plays on the left ...' songs). What AVB has done is set out the team differently and with more inbuilt resilience (granted his hand was forced from having lost VdV and Modric) and allowed Bale a role that utilises his fantastic strength, speed and technique. Now obviously, it does not take a genius to realise Bale's great potential but it does take a very clever manager to balance that with a well functioning team. If AVB simply unleashed Bale to do his thing without organising the team to allow it we would have been all over the place.

They were both very important last year, and they will be again this year. But then again so was Lloris, Vertonghen, Dawson, Sandro, Dembele, Lennon etc. etc.....

 

[CrankyPants90]

Simply AVB. He put the fighting spirit in the lot.

I was biting my nails off at the match against MU, did not expect them to come through.. and before Bale hit the stride, had to manage the team to bring the best out of them, stop the last minute goals; had to deal with under par players through various phases of the season.

 

[CowInAComa]

Simply AVB. He put the fighting spirit in the lot.

I was biting my nails off at the match against MU, did not expect them to come through.. and before Bale hit the stride, had to manage the team to bring the best out of them, stop the last minute goals; had to deal with under par players through various phases of the season.

Yes, he had to manage the squad, like every other manager?

I dont really buy into the idea that we went through the season with a ravaged poor squad compared to last - our new signings have done well and Bale has come of age this season. I think AvB performed well but didnt excel particularly, and not in relation to his peers. Laudrup for instance won a cup, played some brilliant football and relatively speaking did a better job.

Im not knocking AvB I want him to stick around and try and build something but we finished where we did because of Bale not AvB. Therefore Bale is more important.

 

[Kendall]

Yes, he had to manage the squad, like every other manager?

I dont really buy into the idea that we went through the season with a ravaged poor squad compared to last - our new signings have done well and Bale has come of age this season. I think AvB performed well but didnt excel particularly, and not in relation to his peers. Laudrup for instance won a cup, played some brilliant football and relatively speaking did a better job.

Im not knocking AvB I want him to stick around and try and build something but we finished where we did because of Bale not AvB. Therefore Bale is more important.

Agree. I don't think we played very well at all for large parts of the season. We struggled for creativity and by the end we always looked like conceding. Bale's unbelievable form pulled us out of the shit on a number of occasions.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Agree. I don't think we played very well at all for large parts of the season. We struggled for creativity and by the end we always looked like conceding. Bale's unbelievable form pulled us out of the shit on a number of occasions.

I'm not sure we did always look like we would concede, other than early in the season when the team was still coming together.

Generally I thought we were pretty well organised, particularly considering we lost King, Modric and VdV together with having Kaboul and Sandro injured for most of the season. I think this organisation helped us stay in a lot of games that we would have lost previously and put us in a position where we could go on to win games.

I agree that we didn't create a huge amount, but that was surely largely down to the personnel rather than tactics (and there's a reasonable debate over who was responsible for the failure to bring in the right players).

Yes Bale was incredible and yes we wouldn't have got 5th without him, and that's why I voted for Bale. But I genuinely think AVB set the team up to get the most out of Bale, and even with Bale in that sort of form, we wouldn't have got 5th if we'd had any of our other recent managers in charge.

 

[carpediem991]

Love AVB, but I think for us it would be easier to find a new good coach than a Bale replacement.

 

[Huddlestone22]

I have a better question!

What would you rather do? Slight your wrists or hang yourself?

 

[CowInAComa]

Agree. I don't think we played very well at all for large parts of the season. We struggled for creativity and by the end we always looked like conceding. Bale's unbelievable form pulled us out of the shit on a number of occasions.

Take the Bale wonder goals out of most of our games in the second half of the season and they were pretty fucking dire affairs, punctuated by moments of brilliance (Utd/Inter first halves).

Giving AvB tactical credit for Bale putting it in the top corner from 30 yards repeatedly is stretching credibility a bit.

 

[CowInAComa]

I have a better question!

What would you rather do? Slight your wrists or hang yourself?

The first. Because words will never hurt me (or my wrists).

 

[Kendall]

I'm not sure we did always look like we would concede, other than early in the season when the team was still coming together.

Generally I thought we were pretty well organised, particularly considering we lost King, Modric and VdV together with having Kaboul and Sandro injured for most of the season. I think this organisation helped us stay in a lot of games that we would have lost previously and put us in a position where we could go on to win games.

I agree that we didn't create a huge amount, but that was surely largely down to the personnel rather than tactics (and there's a reasonable debate over who was responsible for the failure to bring in the right players).

Yes Bale was incredible and yes we wouldn't have got 5th without him, and that's why I voted for Bale. But I genuinely think AVB set the team up to get the most out of Bale, and even with Bale in that sort of form, we wouldn't have got 5th if we'd had any of our other recent managers in charge.

I lost track of the amount of 2-2s in the last few months!

 

[Kendall]

I have a better question!

What would you rather do? Slight your wrists or hang yourself?

One does not simply slight one's wrist...

 

[CowInAComa]

I'm not sure we did always look like we would concede, other than early in the season when the team was still coming together.

Generally I thought we were pretty well organised, particularly considering we lost King, Modric and VdV together with having Kaboul and Sandro injured for most of the season. I think this organisation helped us stay in a lot of games that we would have lost previously and put us in a position where we could go on to win games.

I agree that we didn't create a huge amount, but that was surely largely down to the personnel rather than tactics (and there's a reasonable debate over who was responsible for the failure to bring in the right players).

Yes Bale was incredible and yes we wouldn't have got 5th without him, and that's why I voted for Bale. But I genuinely think AVB set the team up to get the most out of Bale, and even with Bale in that sort of form, we wouldn't have got 5th if we'd had any of our other recent managers in charge.

Blaming the team personnel and not the tactics for lack of creativity is sort of absolving AvB of blame though, why should the tactics not be under scrutiny should we be struggling to create chances?

The personnel are hardly pisspoor are they? We are talking about attacking players that would walk into most premier league sides, and so to look so toothless so often something must be going wrong. Other teams look more fluid with far lesser playing staff.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Blaming the team personnel and not the tactics for lack of creativity is sort of absolving AvB of blame though, why should the tactics not be under scrutiny should we be struggling to create chances?

The personnel are hardly pisspoor are they? We are talking about attacking players that would walk into most premier league sides, and so to look so toothless so often something must be going wrong. Other teams look more fluid with far lesser playing staff.

Completely agree that you can't wholly absolve AVB of blame, both in terms of bringing in the personnel in the first place and in terms of the tactics.

But considering that last season we had Modric, VdV, Lennon Bale and Adebayor, whereas for large parts of this season we just had Bale and Lennon, it was hardly surprising that our creativity was greatly reduced.

I don't think there was much more that could be done with the existing squad to make it more creative. That will have to come from transfer activity.

Instead AVB seemed to opt for organisation and stamina (and I don't think it's a coincidence we scored lots of late goals this season) and as such I think he got more out of the squad than most managers would have done.

 

[JerryGarcia]

Seems like one or two are suggesting that if we didn't have Bale last season, we would have only played with 10 men. And to say that the late goals were lucky? When it happens 9 times in a season, it's not luck.

I voted for AVB though because the players obviously love him and if he were to leave now, I think some of them would be looking for a transfer before too long, including Bale. Plus, he's done a brilliant job even if some refuse to see it or give him credit.