AVB's 4-3-3 w/ Spurs: Tactical & Player Analysis & Discussion

[hybridsoldier]

so much for the 433, looks like we will be going back to 4231, which kind of makes sense as not of our options in a midfield 3 is overly creative in the final third.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I'm not sure about this formation.

It's defensively very sound but do we have the front three to pull it off?

You need three world class forwards to do it.

If Bale stays then we'd get away with it...if not then I think we'll be going back to 4-4-2 after 10 games.

 

[mrlilywhite]

Have to say this is a very good insight into Avb's tactical philosophy and one I am sure he will go with. I also feel like every good tactical manager he will look to employ a 4-2-3-1 at certain times, As I feel he has or will have the players that can adapt easily to both these formations.

I think on paper we look very good in a 4-3-3 and in Soldado we have a striker that suits Avb's style. If you look at the striker he used at Porto (Falcao), He used him as a poacher and was very easy to understand why he persisted with Defoe so much, It didn't work out as expected due to how Defoe is as a player but with Soldado, We now have a player that gives Avb all or most of the attributes he seeks in his fwd man.

There are a few concerns though that will need to be addressed, One is the creative spark and I think we don't really have that player decided. Will Holtby or Sig eventually provide the answer? I don't know that either will be suitable, Moussa can play that role and I expect him to be the man that sits as the more fwd of the 3. I think a lot was made of Moussa being a better advanced midfielder at Fulham, Though due to a lack of personnel we rarely saw him play his more orthodox role last season.

As pointed out already our fullbacks provide the flank attacks, But we seem unsure of them in the defensive phase. I believe Walker had a poorer season last term as he was adapting to fully understanding his tactical role, So I expect him to flourish more this season. Danny Rose is in that transitional phase and I feel that given time he can become more aware of his defensive role. Any transition from winger to full back is going to be tough and he will need to be educated to fulfil his role more. He will need a lot of help initially from our anchor man and will also need his wing partner to track back a bit more....It will come.

Defensively, Ball playing CB's are the flavour for Avb and I agree that Jan is the prime example of someone who has these attributes, I also agree that Younes can play this role to and can learn from Vertonghen. He is not a ideal BP CB, But he does offer us an immense figure who can dominate his position very well once fully fit.

Anything else is largely dependant on Bale staying so is not really something that can be discussed, I will add though that I think Lennon can be better utilised on the left as an inside forward but he needs to understand what he needs to offer to be at least competent in that role. On the right he becomes lost in that formation as he is very much a byline winger, Being forced to play in from the left should give us better options, Though not ideal.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Nevertheless, despite some manifest faults he was the best manager we've had since Nicholson himself, and AVB praised what he'd done. A shame some of our support can't offer the same generosity.

Redknapp and his half-witted son take every opportunity to have a dig at Levy in their newspaper columns. They are both desperate to see us fail, and will be gutted if Bale stays, as they have far too much to say on the whole situation.

Redknapp now manages a championship team with a championship structure, so all this bull shit about buying Defoe, is cringe worthy.

 

[SpurSince57]

Redknapp and his half-witted son take every opportunity to have a dig at Levy in their newspaper columns. They are both desperate to see us fail, and will be gutted if Bale stays, as they have far too much to say on the whole situation.

Redknapp now manages a championship team with a championship structure, so all this bull shit about buying Defoe, is cringe worthy.

None of which negates what I stated in my post. He was the best manager we've had since Nicholson himself, and whilst he was largely responsible for his own downfall, I don't think I'd see it that way if I were in his position, and I wonder if you would too. He was given precious little credit by some when he was here—as I believe Paul Smith on SO said, he could have discovered a cure for cancer and still been slagged off. He has a pop at Levy? So do quite a few people on SC, and you really out to check out COYS.

And so what if he's now managing a Championship side? It's what he did for us that counts, and in my book he did a heck of a lot.

 

[SpurSince57]

I didn't say otherwise. I was fully behind Redknapp till the end of his last season where it was clear it had all gone to shit but I can't say he was the most tactically astute manager we've ever had. He was great when he came in and we reached many milestones and broke many hoodoos under him and some of my best memories as a Spurs fan have come under his reign, but in a lot of big games he was found out.

But you said he couldn't read—i.e., that he was a tactical illiterate—which is an absurdity. You don't average 1.74 PPG over almost four seasons without a pretty high degree of tactical nous. Sure, the 'Tora! Tora! Tora!' approach did backfire at times, especially against sides of equal quality but better organisation, but isn't that the 'Spurs Way'? And you say he was 'found out' in a lot of big games, but his record against the Sky 4 is pretty impressive—or at least better than his predecessors in the EPL.

 

[cranester]

Well keep your drawing boards, formations, and whatever, if we play zonal marking this season we are fucked!!!!

 

[Darth Vega]

But you said he couldn't read—i.e., that he was a tactical illiterate—which is an absurdity. You don't average 1.74 PPG over almost four seasons without a pretty high degree of tactical nous. Sure, the 'Tora! Tora! Tora!' approach did backfire at times, especially against sides of equal quality but better organisation, but isn't that the 'Spurs Way'? And you say he was 'found out' in a lot of big games, but his record against the Sky 4 is pretty impressive—or at least better than his predecessors in the EPL.

I'm not saying he was completely useless tactically, I'm just saying he's not at the level of AVB in that respect. Ok, I made a joke about him not being able to read and whatnot, but Redknapp is the complete antithesis of AVB. He said himself that he could barely fill out a team sheet, never mind anything else. Danny Rose's comments today were very interesting. He stated that Redknapp would pick the same 11 despite the performances of some of the players in training. That highlights the difference between AVB and Redknapp perfectly. Again, I'm not saying he was totally useless, far from it, but he definitely had his limitations.

We improved under Redknapp, greatly so, but just like Jol he hit a wall. I don't think Redknapp could have taken our club any further. I thank him for the work that he did but it was the right time to move on.

 

[SpurSince57]

I'm not saying he was completely useless tactically, I'm just saying he's not at the level of AVB in that respect. Ok, I made a joke about him not being able to read and whatnot, but Redknapp is the complete antithesis of AVB. He said himself that he could barely fill out a team sheet, never mind anything else. Danny Rose's comments today were very interesting. He stated that Redknapp would pick the same 11 despite the performances of some of the players in training. That highlights the difference between AVB and Redknapp perfectly. Again, I'm not saying he was totally useless, far from it, but he definitely had his limitations.

We improved under Redknapp, greatly so, but just like Jol he hit a wall. I don't think Redknapp could have taken our club any further. I thank him for the work that he did but it was the right time to move on.

Oh, I agree that Aitch had his limitations, but that 'I can barely fill out a team sheet' was the projected public persona—feet up on the table with the Racing Post, that sort of shit. He was a lot smarter than that, and whilst he did stick with the same 11, it was pretty obvious that once we lost a couple of first choices things started going tits-up. I absolutely agree that he couldn't take us any further than he had; he'd wildly exceeded his brief, but, for a whole shedload of reasons, no way was he going to get a contract extension. I'm not sure Jol hit a wall, though: I watched his Hamburg and Ajax, and I don't think anyone would have complained had we played the kind of football they did. We were solid but Stodge City 2005-2007, but given the players Jol had available to him, were we going to be anything else?

 

[Darth Vega]

Oh, I agree that Aitch had his limitations, but that 'I can barely fill out a team sheet' was the projected public persona—feet up on the table with the Racing Post, that sort of shit. He was a lot smarter than that, and whilst he did stick with the same 11, it was pretty obvious that once we lost a couple of first choices things started going tits-up. I absolutely agree that he couldn't take us any further than he had; he'd wildly exceeded his brief, but, for a whole shedload of reasons, no way was he going to get a contract extension. I'm not sure Jol hit a wall, though: I watched his Hamburg and Ajax, and I don't think anyone would have complained had we played the kind of football they did. We were solid but Stodge City 2005-2007, but given the players Jol had available to him, were we going to be anything else?

I don't wanna de-rail this thread too badly but Jol's problem was that he lacked ambition. I absolutely loved Jol, but he never came out and said that we were aiming for the Top 4 until he was really pushed in his final season. Looking back on our squad it's safe to say he did very well with what he had, but I always felt that the ambition of Levy and the fans was higher. Maybe we were a bit deluded, but 'To Dare Is To Do' and all that...

 

[SpurSince57]

I don't wanna de-rail this thread too badly but Jol's problem was that he lacked ambition. I absolutely loved Jol, but he never came out and said that we were aiming for the Top 4 until he was really pushed in his final season. Looking back on our squad it's safe to say he did very well with what he had, but I always felt that the ambition of Levy and the fans was higher. Maybe we were a bit deluded, but 'To Dare Is To Do' and all that...

I think he was being realistic, and that Comolli didn't get the players we really needed (and Levy didn't realise Comolli was a fraud until too late). But you're right, we're derailing this thread!

 

[Firsttouch]

I saw palace live at wembley in the playoff final, they lined up in a 433 then, Zaha is amazing would of been perfect for us
(I thought this when we was in for him) they have some decent players down there ....Speroni is very good keeper, jon williams is very technical might not start as he is quite young, I've played against Dwight Gayle nearly 3 years ago he's rapid and constantly making runs to get in behind. He might cause dawson and whoever partners him problems.

They are a good team who may surprise people this year I do hope they stay up and I hope they don't surprise us

this is from a palace forum
players i like in bold!

-----------Speroni​

----Ward Ramage Delaney Parr​

-------Garvin Jedinak​

Bolasie----------------Grandin​

------------Gayle​

----------Chamakh​

Gabbidon​

O'Keefe​

KG​

Joniesta​

Jermone Thomas​

Phillips​

Fitzsimons​

Oh yeah Bolasie should test young danny rose ... should be a good battle

P.S I like Danny Rose as a LB

Whoops Wrong thread

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

I think he was being realistic, and that Comolli didn't get the players we really needed (and Levy didn't realise Comolli was a fraud until too late). But you're right, we're derailing this thread!

Is this the same Comolli who bought us Bale, Berbatov and Modric?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Is this the same Comolli who bought us Bale, Berbatov and Modric?

No. If you read the reports he had nothing to do with those signings.

 

[norsk2]

There are a few concerns though that will need to be addressed, One is the creative spark and I think we don't really have that player decided. Will Holtby or Sig eventually provide the answer? I don't know that either will be suitable, Moussa can play that role and I expect him to be the man that sits as the more fwd of the 3. I think a lot was made of Moussa being a better advanced midfielder at Fulham, Though due to a lack of personnel we rarely saw him play his more orthodox role last season.

I am also unsure about Moussa being our creative spark (although he is capable of some clever stuff - just not consistantly enough IMO).

Dembéle is usually a very safe passer. I think he usually has around 90% pass completion (please correct me if I am mistaken), due to the fact that he seldom tried the adventurous alternative. I sometimes doubt whether he has the vision of a VDV or Modric. He is certainly great with the ball, he can dribble like few others, but we need somebody with eye for the unexpected pass as well. I agree that Sig or Holtby might be the answer here.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

None of which negates what I stated in my post. He was the best manager we've had since Nicholson himself, and whilst he was largely responsible for his own downfall, I don't think I'd see it that way if I were in his position, and I wonder if you would too. He was given precious little credit by some when he was here—as I believe Paul Smith on SO said, he could have discovered a cure for cancer and still been slagged off. He has a pop at Levy? So do quite a few people on SC, and you really out to check out COYS.

And so what if he's now managing a Championship side? It's what he did for us that counts, and in my book he did a heck of a lot.

For me Burkinshaw and Pleat were better managers, similar/better achievements but miles ahead on the integrity/verbal diarrhoea stakes. AVB achieved a higher points total after losing the two best players Redknapp had and the third having no kind of season at all productively.

 

[ItsBoris]

so much for the 433, looks like we will be going back to 4231, which kind of makes sense as not of our options in a midfield 3 is overly creative in the final third.

Paulinho is extremely effective in the final 3rd imo, maybe not a typical #10 type of creative player but for what we're trying to do he's the perfect player in that position imo.

 

[hoodlum]

I saw palace live at wembley in the playoff final, they lined up in a 433 then, Zaha is amazing would of been perfect for us
(I thought this when we was in for him) they have some decent players down there ....Speroni is very good keeper, jon williams is very technical might not start as he is quite young, I've played against Dwight Gayle nearly 3 years ago he's rapid and constantly making runs to get in behind. He might cause dawson and whoever partners him problems.

They are a good team who may surprise people this year I do hope they stay up and I hope they don't surprise us

this is from a palace forum
players i like in bold!

-----------Speroni​

----Ward Ramage Delaney Parr​

-------Garvin Jedinak​

Bolasie----------------Grandin​

------------Gayle​

----------Chamakh​

Gabbidon​

O'Keefe​

KG​

Joniesta​

Jermone Thomas​

Phillips​

Fitzsimons​

Oh yeah Bolasie should test young danny rose ... should be a good battle

P.S I like Danny Rose as a LB

Whoops Wrong thread

Is Chamakh still styling his hair like a violent lesbian?