AVBwatch

[ShayLaB]

AVB was propped up by G.B.

When one went so did the other.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Its all well and good saying he should have been given more time but im pretty certain he walked as much as being pushed.

I'm still not convinced by that, he had a reputation in tatters after the Chelsea debacle, another sacking wouldn't have gone down well but there has been little apart from gossip to say he walked as much as was pushed.

 

[Shea]

There's no point debating whether you think he should have been sacked or not anymore - it's been done to death and nothing new is going to be said on either side of the debate and peoples opinions will certainly not change now because if they were going to they would have done during the debates had here during the Sherwood era (which were pretty much constant)

It's as futile as debating Ramos, Jol or Redknapp etc

This thread is for those who for whatever reason what to talk about how he's doing at his new club and it's probably better to stick to that rather than turn it into another pointless AVB debate

I don't really like Zenit - I think they're racists and another of the clubs who buy their respective successes and frankly I don't want them to have any success in Europe (though I suppose I couldn't care less about their domestic success) I don't really have any emotional attachment or dislike for AVB either so I don't actually care whether he's a success or not though I do pay attention to this thread and Zenit's results due to the connection via him I suppose, same as I keep an eye on QPR now Harry is there and how I watched what Jol was doing (even Ramos when he was at Real)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...rsburg-fans-demand-non-white-gay-players.html
http://futbolgrad.com/ugly-side-zenit-st-petersburg/
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...layers-joining-russian-champions-8422571.html

Ravly, how comes you've never seen us play at the Lane? Are you from another country?

 

[Shadydan]

Taking aside that nonsense about him not trying to play progressive/positive football (just because it hadn't been achieved yet doesn't mean it wasn't being tried), we're talking here about a bunch of so called fans who were already creating a negative atmosphere for the new management before the third game of the season had even been finished (the transfers market hadn't even closed if I remember correctly), and all that moaning was probably ignited by us been unlucky on the previous two games by receiving late goals from Newcastle and West Brom (something AVB actually corrected as the season went on). So that leaves me with only either of two conclusions to be reached:

a. The fans at the Lane are clearly irrational people who lack the slightest bit of sensitivity to understand that any new management requires some time to get things right.

or, what I think the real situation actually was:

b. The fans at the Lane wanted AVB out from the very first moment and were simply unwilling to give him a chance.

Or

c. Fans want to be entertained and it's a natural reaction to vent frustration.

The problem with your argument is that it's bordering on paranoia, you've turned this into an AVB vs sc thing with your ludicrous defence of the man and you're unwilling to accept any criticism when it's there for all to see...In fact you've become a parody of him picking up his stubborn characteristics and bending the truth to suit your arguments.

The reaction has nothing to do with AVB, bottom line is fans pay their money to be entertained which is why Utd fans got tired of Moyes-ball, City fans didn't like Mancini in his first season because he was defensive, same with Allardyce at West Ham (the fans were booing last season because the football was crap) Arsenal fans get on Wenger's back for them playing poor football...happens in Germany, France, Spain etc....happens everywhere. The booing however I don't agree with as it's counter-productive but I can understand the moaning especially when we had something like 7 home goals (3 pens) up until November, surely you can see something is wrong there?

You're defense of the man is bordering on embarrassing and obsessional and for someone who has openly admitted that they haven't even been to WHL you're calling out arguments as nonsense is actually laughable , I went to the Swansea and Norwich matches at home last season where we looked competent and we played attacking football, I didn't hear much moaning then, the fans were incredibly responsive and vocal to the team because we looked a cohesive team with a plan who were by and large creating chances. We started to get found out and by the time we played Hull we looked a completely different team devoid of ideas or creativity, this is the game when AVB called out the fans for not getting behind the team - he was right however a smart man would have worked out that the fans didn't like the football being played which was dour and crap.

Bottom line is to say that the fans didn't give the manager time is rubbish to say that there was clear signs of progress is total crap seeing as he reverted to the same formation and tactics from the City thrashing after he changed it up for the Fulham, Utd and Sunderland games when we created more chances and lo and behold we scored 6 goals in those games yet he reverted to type in the Liverpool game where we were thrashed again...shock.

 

[Coyboy]

I'm still not convinced by that, he had a reputation in tatters after the Chelsea debacle, another sacking wouldn't have gone down well but there has been little apart from gossip to say he walked as much as was pushed.

Other than the official announcement from the club saying an agreement has been reached with AVB for his departure?

 

[Kendall]

It really was devestatingly dull and insipid watching his team and tactics and as a club (including fans), I'm not sure we've recovered from it yet.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Other than the official announcement from the club saying an agreement has been reached with AVB for his departure?

Wasn't it an agreement has been reached to terminate his contract? Then also said something along the lines of "We didn't want to have to make a change mid-season, but we owe the players a head coach that will get the best out of them..."

The guy was barbecued.

 

[Coyboy]

Wasn't it an agreement has been reached to terminate his contract? Then also said something along the lines of "We didn't want to have to make a change mid-season, but we owe the players a head coach that will get the begs out of them..."

The guy was barbecued.

Yes but he didn't have to agree, he could have just said "no fire me".

I'm not sure about the second quotation. When he first left, it was just by mutual consent.

I’m not being obtuse for the sake of it. I honestly think there was more to it than “come into my office…you’re fired”. I think AVB had thrown the towel into some extent and burnt a lot of bridges by his own conduct. Jol, Ramos, Hoddle and Redknapp were all fired (I believe). There was no doubt publically about that. If AVB was too, why would it be more ambiguous?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Yes but he didn't have to agree, he could have just said "no fire me".

I'm not sure about the second quotation. When he first left, it was just by mutual consent.

I’m not being obtuse for the sake of it. I honestly think there was more to it than “come into my office…you’re fired”. I think AVB had thrown the towel into some extent and burnt a lot of bridges by his own conduct. Jol, Ramos, Hoddle and Redknapp were all fired (I believe). There was no doubt publically about that. If AVB was too, why would it be more ambiguous?

This is from the official site a week after AVB left, I think anything else is a play on words to be honest.

"We were extremely reluctant to make a change mid-season, but felt we had to do so in the Club's best interests.

"We have a great squad and we owe them a Head Coach who will bring out the best in them and allow them to flourish and enjoy a strong, exciting finish to the season."

Whether you believe he walked or if it was mutual, the bit in bold tells a far greater story.

 

[Coyboy]

This is from the official site a week after AVB left, I think anything else is a play on words to be honest.

"We were extremely reluctant to make a change mid-season, but felt we had to do so in the Club's best interests.

"We have a great squad and we owe them a Head Coach who will bring out the best in them and allow them to flourish and enjoy a strong, exciting finish to the season."

Whether you believe he walked or if it was mutual, the bit in bold tells a far greater story.

Maybe so, but that just confirms that he didn't resign.

 

[Khilari]

Apart from the results, it was clear to all that our brand of football was suffering. Hence all the generic usual Levy-style statements talking about 'exciting' and 'attacking' football (the very terms he'd used for AVB). But our possession based probing football was dire.

 

[ralvy]

Jesus! here we go again.

Or

c. Fans want to be entertained and it's a natural reaction to vent frustration.

The problem with your argument is that it's bordering on paranoia, you've turned this into an AVB vs sc thing with your ludicrous defence of the man and you're unwilling to accept any criticism when it's there for all to see...In fact you've become a parody of him picking up his stubborn characteristics and bending the truth to suit your arguments.

Okay,

- first: I actually have criticized AVB a fair amount of times, you saying I can't accept any criticism against him tells me you're completely talking out of your ass.

- Second: Am I really being paranoid? Just go and read back the last couple of pages to see how many responses my little comment celebrating AVB's last victory aroused from you guys? One of you even suggested me to leave the forum! Some of you guys are just plain sick, you clearly have it against AVB so hard,

BTW, I know Sloth was probably only joking, but it helps my case pointing that out, so Im gonna use it.

The reaction has nothing to do with AVB, bottom line is fans pay their money to be entertained which is why Utd fans got tired of Moyes-ball, City fans didn't like Mancini in his first season because he was defensive, same with Allardyce at West Ham (the fans were booing last season because the football was crap) Arsenal fans get on Wenger's back for them playing poor football...happens in Germany, France, Spain etc....happens everywhere. The booing however I don't agree with as it's counter-productive but I can understand the moaning especially when we had something like 7 home goals (3 pens) up until November, surely you can see something is wrong there?

Wrong! Fans don't pay money to be entertained, they pay it to watch some live football and to support the team they supposedly love from the stands. There's never a guarantee the game will be pretty. If they think they're entitled to watch a pretty game then clearly they don't understand what being a fan is all about.

Moaning is only ever right when its clear those guys in the field are not even trying, if that's not the case then either support the team or shut the fuck up, or do something else but moaning.

You're defense of the man is bordering on embarrassing and obsessional and for someone who has openly admitted that they haven't even been to WHL you're calling out arguments as nonsense is actually laughable , I went to the Swansea and Norwich matches at home last season where we looked competent and we played attacking football, I didn't hear much moaning then, the fans were incredibly responsive and vocal to the team because we looked a cohesive team with a plan who were by and large creating chances. We started to get found out and by the time we played Hull we looked a completely different team devoid of ideas or creativity, this is the game when AVB called out the fans for not getting behind the team - he was right however a smart man would have worked out that the fans didn't like the football being played which was dour and crap.

Learn to construct an argument first, and then we may be able to have a more civilized debate next time. Care to tell me why my defense of the man is bordering on embarrassing and obsessional? Do you actually have a reason to come to this conclusion or you simply don't like the fact that I keep telling positive things about AVB? This is a serious question, I want to know just whats so wrong about me keep showing my support for one of the guys which very recently was coach of the team I love. Please enlighten me.

You had no real argument there, the rest of your paragraph had nothing to do with your opening point. So you were lucky enough to attend two home games last season, I only wish I could be lucky enough to be in your situation, but Im not, I live an Ocean away and so far Im stuck in a country I've hated since I've had memory. Thanks for reminding me that... jackass!

Bottom line is to say that the fans didn't give the manager time is rubbish to say that there was clear signs of progress is total crap seeing as he reverted to the same formation and tactics from the City thrashing after he changed it up for the Fulham, Utd and Sunderland games when we created more chances and lo and behold we scored 6 goals in those games yet he reverted to type in the Liverpool game where we were thrashed again...shock.

So you say there weren't clear signs of progress and later admit he had in fact changed it up after the City game? That change you're talking about, that's what they call progress, don't you know?

BTW, I do agree with you we went back our old ways against Liverpool (and I was in fact pissed off with AVB at the time, I actually called him a coward during that game, as he clearly didn't had the balls to give 'Pool a proper battle that night), but that was just one game! And against a team which was showing great offensive form. How do you know what we saw the games before that one wasn't the true direction we were actually heading into and that Liverpool game wasn't simply a blip? That's why I say the sacking was stupid, and that we should have given him the rest of the season, as prior to that game there had been clear signs of progress.

 

[Real_madyidd]

we gained nothing by sacking him when we did. Simple.

 

[Marty]

we gained nothing by sacking him when we did. Simple.

All we got was six months of complete insanity.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

- I enjoyed around 50% to 70% of the matches we played under him .

1. Do you enjoy pain?
2. I assume this statement means that you enjoyed watching Bale play...?

It really was devestatingly dull and insipid watching his team and tactics and as a club (including fans), I'm not sure we've recovered from it yet.

And we have a winner...

I'm convinced by this- AVB's reign completely obliterated the soul of the club IMO and we still haven;t fully recovered but I think Poch can put the pieces back together again.

Sherwood's reign didn't help either.

 

[Dinghy]

we gained nothing by sacking him when we did. Simple.

We lost nothing either...

 

[prawnsandwich]

AVB was propped up by G.B.

When one went so did the other.

I take your point but we did get an amazing sequence of results at the start of last season despite playing possibly the worst football I have ever seen good footballers play.

 

[mpickard2087]

Yes but he didn't have to agree, he could have just said "no fire me".

I'm not sure about the second quotation. When he first left, it was just by mutual consent.

I’m not being obtuse for the sake of it. I honestly think there was more to it than “come into my office…you’re fired”. I think AVB had thrown the towel into some extent and burnt a lot of bridges by his own conduct. Jol, Ramos, Hoddle and Redknapp were all fired (I believe). There was no doubt publically about that. If AVB was too, why would it be more ambiguous?

I also think this one was mutual consent.

Yeah there were a couple of shots on the TV cameras during the second half of the Liverpool game and AVB did look an absolutely broken man on the touchline, as if he just didn't know how it was happening (again) nor how to deal with it all.

I'd hazard a guess that after the game Levy wanted to know what changes could be made to get us scoring/avert thrashings against rival teams, AVB didn't offer satisfactory answers and probably didn't want to change approach - I'd imagine a refusal to consider using the highest paid player at the club, a centre forward, was one thing for example. One side probably then gave off the impression that without changes they weren't happy going forward, the other side said that going forward they weren't prepared to change things... And the split was done.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I also think this one was mutual consent.

Yeah there were a couple of shots on the TV cameras during the second half of the Liverpool game and AVB did look an absolutely broken man on the touchline, as if he just didn't know how it was happening (again) nor how to deal with it all.

I'd hazard a guess that after the game Levy wanted to know what changes could be made to get us scoring/avert thrashings against rival teams, AVB didn't offer satisfactory answers and probably didn't want to change approach - I'd imagine a refusal to consider using the highest paid player at the club, a centre forward, was one thing for example. One side probably then gave off the impression that without changes they weren't happy going forward, the other side said that going forward they weren't prepared to change things... And the split was done.

I prefer to believe the rumours that he had alienated everyone at the club, there's as much in them as there is this whole mutual consent thing. It's widely reported by news/radio/TV that he was sacked. If he wasn't, I would imagine him or his legal side would be keen to correct it. But nobody ever does.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I prefer to believe the rumours that he had alienated everyone at the club, there's as much in them as there is this whole mutual consent thing. It's widely reported by news/radio/TV that he was sacked. If he wasn't, I would imagine him or his legal side would be keen to correct it. But nobody ever does.

The three people we know he alienated were Freund, Sherwood & Adebayor. Not so much everyone, more every bellend wouldn't you say ?