Bale's diving

[parklane1]

I only have to ask myself what my opinion would be if an opposition player did that and I would have called it a dive so therefore I can only call what Bale did a dive.

Thats the point, i said earlier if a opposing player had done that to us we would all be screaming about it.

 

[$hoguN]

We're obviously not going to agree on this one but for what it's worth my personal opinion is that Bale didn't appeal because even he realised just how ridiculous his dive had been. In that sense at least he appears to have a bit more shame than Suarez.

Unfortunately I just think Bale is a diver. He's done it before, I think he did it on Sunday, and until the FA intervene and start giving out retrospective bans for this nonsense then he'll continue doing it.

If a similar thing had happened in the penalty area and we'd won the game because of it, I'd have felt pretty embarassed. fair enough if others don't feel the same though.

This reflects my opinion on the matter tbh.

 

[StartingPrice]

We're obviously not going to agree on this one but for what it's worth my personal opinion is that Bale didn't appeal because even he realised just how ridiculous his dive had been. In that sense at least he appears to have a bit more shame than Suarez.

Unfortunately I just think Bale is a diver. He's done it before, I think he did it on Sunday, and until the FA intervene and start giving out retrospective bans for this nonsense then he'll continue doing it.

If a similar thing had happened in the penalty area and we'd won the game because of it, I'd have felt pretty embarassed. fair enough if others don't feel the same though.

You are right...we ain't gonna agree.
You isundersrtand, however, I am explaining it, I am not saying it isn't embarrassing, particularly when the oppo pulls out. But, like I said, insofar as I can see it, it is the least bad of three bad options, rather than a good option in any way, shape or form.
I don't even like to blame Guzman, too much, in this instance, becuase he clearly was totally deceived by Bale's pace.
On other occasions, Bale does dive and he does look for a free-kick, and I will call it if I see it that way. I'm just not going to call it like that if it isn't what I saw.

I only have to ask myself what my opinion would be if an opposition player did that and I would have called it a dive so therefore I can only call what Bale did a dive.

Which is funny becuase, at the time, I will call every decision ours, but later I am rather objective and if I can see taht an opposition player is just legitimately trying to avoid a clattering, and doesn't look round at the ref, imploringly, feign injury, plead for a free-kick, or wave imaginary cards around, I will call it as such. Is it that you can't differentiate? Or is it that after the event, when you see it again, you still refuse to retract your original diagnosis when it is a oppos player, and therefore feel honour bound to do the same when it is a Spurs player?

 

[$hoguN]

Which is funny becuase, at the time, I will call every decision ours, but later I am rather objective and if I can see taht an opposition player is just legitimately trying to avoid a clattering, and doesn't look round at the ref, imploringly, feign injury, plead for a free-kick, or wave imaginary cards around, I will call it as such. Is it that you can't differentiate? Or is it that after the event, when you see it again, you still refuse to retract your original diagnosis when it is a oppos player, and therefore feel honour bound to do the same when it is a Spurs player?

IMO, If Suarez had done this against us, not a single person would defend him. Even if he got straight up and didn't roll around like a tool. Not you, not nicdic, none of us.

 

[nedley]

I rated your post dumb for the shitty wales comment. Wise up.

Take a joke well?

Man up.

 

[worcestersauce]

Asking how we would feel about opposition players doing it is a bit questionable as we wouldn't know the context, in Bale's case for the first couple of years he never dived or went down theatrically when fouled and the upshot was that he was kicked all over the park, defenders didn't so much foul him as assault him without any punishment and I believe that became less when he started going down, now if people are serious about this they have to address the fact that referees don't give fouls unless a player goes down.
Yes he went down without being touched on Saturday, he anticipated the contact and when it didn't come he looked silly and he knew it so didn't make a fuss but my point is that had he been kicked but tried to keep his feet and reach the ball it's extremely likely that foul wouldn't have been given and I firmly believe that.
Ultimately he needs to give it up or at least get better at it but whilst the debate is going on I think it should be widened to include my above point as well as the cheating done by defenders who claim a striker has dived when they know they have fouled him, I see that as just as bad just not as spectacular.

 

[nidge]

Which is funny becuase, at the time, I will call every decision ours, but later I am rather objective and if I can see taht an opposition player is just legitimately trying to avoid a clattering, and doesn't look round at the ref, imploringly, feign injury, plead for a free-kick, or wave imaginary cards around, I will call it as such. Is it that you can't differentiate? Or is it that after the event, when you see it again, you still refuse to retract your original diagnosis when it is a oppos player, and therefore feel honour bound to do the same when it is a Spurs player?

And yet do you really think if the ref had given us the free kick and booked (or sent off Guzman) that Bale would have held his hands up to say that it wasn't a foul?

He didn't feign injury, plead for a free kick or any of the other histrionics because as we saw with Suarez in the united game that refs are less inclined to give a foul we a player makes a mess of it. Plus we should all know by now that if a player has a serious injury you don't roll around like an idiot as it has a tendency to make any potential injury worse.

 

[$hoguN]

The funny thing is, the arguments people make in favour of Bale here are the same arguments Liverpool fans make about Suarez.

 

[worcestersauce]

The funny thing is, the arguments people make in favour of Bale here are the same arguments Liverpool fans make about Suarez.

Which is funny because, as we know, the two are completely different.

 

[jonnyrotten]

I have a question to those that get upset with Bale's diving.


would you prefer he took a kicking every week and instead responded in kind with dirty tackles and sneaky elbows?

I have a question for you. Do you think Bale's diving is going to make him more of a target when we play thugs? IMO the likes of Bale, Suarez and Ronaldo get a lot more nasty tackles because they do cheat. I hope he learns from Sunday. He looked stupid and missed a clear goal scoring opportunity. Next time he is fouled refs will be thinking twice.

 

[wills]

It definitely was an embarrassing dive yesterday, though to his credit he didn't appeal for anything. The problem i have is how it can effect the crowd, from the east stand it looked like Bale was caught and it wound up a considerable number of fans, and that's us playing Aston Villa, can you imagine what could happen against say Chelsea or Arsenal?

 

[StartingPrice]

IMO, If Suarez had done this against us, not a single person would defend him. Even if he got straight up and didn't roll around like a tool. Not you, not nicdic, none of us.

Supposition.
If Bale did the type of things Suarez does, I absolutely would not defend him.
Actually, I am pretty certain that after the match, if I saw an oppo player (any oppo player) getting out of the way of a clattering from one of our players, but not looking imploringly at the ref, feigning injury, pleading for a free-kick or waving an imaginary card, I would point out that there is no inherent offence in avoiding a clattering and that is all he had done.
And that is where your supposition gets into trouble - it assumes that none of us are capable of looking at the incident objectively after the game if it is an oppo player and so we souldn't do so now, with it being Bale.

And yet do you really think if the ref had given us the free kick and booked (or sent off Guzman) that Bale would have held his hands up to say that it wasn't a foul?

He didn't feign injury, plead for a free kick or any of the other histrionics because as we saw with Suarez in the united game that refs are less inclined to give a foul we a player makes a mess of it. Plus we should all know by now that if a player has a serious injury you don't roll around like an idiot as it has a tendency to make any potential injury worse.

I don't know, but neither do you. I would like to think he would. Either way, I personally would say that no foul had been committed...but maintain that no player (NOT ONE - apart from Joey Barton ) is under any obligation to needlessly take a clattering just to placate some fans (the meeja) that he might not have been trying to get the other player in trouble if he had got out of the way.

The funny thing is, the arguments people make in favour of Bale here are the same arguments Liverpool fans make about Suarez.

The funny thing is, I have seen Luis Suarez stamp, front on, on the shin of an oppo players standing leg (a horrible, cowardly tackle), and then throw himself to the ground clutching his head when there was clearly no contact with his head (or any other part of his body - other than the bit he had just used as a weapon), and get up rubbing his head and looking at the ref...in a Liverpool shirt.
Remind me...when was the last time Bale did anything remotely like that, and then show me were I have defended that

 

[StartingPrice]

It definitely was an embarrassing dive yesterday, though to his credit he didn't appeal for anything. The problem i have is how it can effect the crowd, from the east stand it looked like Bale was caught and it wound up a considerable number of fans, and that's us playing Aston Villa, can you imagine what could happen against say Chelsea or Arsenal?

That's a fair point.
Like I said, my opinion is that it is the least worst option - not that it is a good option.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

False binary. In the long-run, pre-emptive diving is going to get him *more* kicks. Fat Sam Pulis, to use a made-up example, is going to be encouraged to instruct his players to take him out knowing that a ref is likely to be hesitant to give the foul.

Boris has it above -- though his last example's more than a bit dubious -- hurdle the challenge.

Nope.

Referees have been desensitized to diving by it's consistent use in just about every other footballing culture worldwide, to the point where it is now a normal part of football. It's only the prem that is slow to adapt.

Referees will always err on the side of player protection, if they don't then they run the risk of games going the way of the Holland vs Spain world cup final and that was downright dangerous!!


People can fool themselves all they want that football is a 'mans game' and about being tough and strong but what Spain have proved is that it is a non contact game that is about balance, technique, Pace, creativity and flair. Power has a place in the game but not if it comes at the cost of the players that really provide the entertainment.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

I have a question for those defending Bale here. If Guzan had been sent off wrongly due to Bale's dive/tumble/whatever you want to call it, do you think he would have gone up to the ref and said that he didn't get touched and was merely avoiding a challenge, or do you think he would have kept quiet?

moot.

Bale can say what he wants to a ref but the ref can't/wouldn't change his mind.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

There's no logic to the concept that it's either diving or elbows. Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not neither?

So what suggestion do you have to counteract the injury's caused to him last year by players kicking him around the park. Charlie Adam ended his season.

Surely doing nothing is the least logical of any option?

 

[nidge]

I don't know, but neither do you. I would like to think he would. Either way, I personally would say that no foul had been committed...but maintain that no player (NOT ONE - apart from Joey Barton ) is under any obligation to needlessly take a clattering just to placate some fans (the meeja) that he might not have been trying to get the other player in trouble if he had got out of the way.

I haven't said that Bale should take a clattering but I still believe having watched it again that in that situation there was no need to go to ground in the way he did and don't understand his thinking that by diving forward in the way he did would lessen the impact of any potential contact. He doesn't need to dive forward like that to have his feet of the ground either.

My biggest gripe is that with Bale going to ground we lost what potentially could have been a good attacking position with the keeper so far out of position.

 

[nidge]

moot.

Bale can say what he wants to a ref but the ref can't/wouldn't change his mind.

But by diving the way he did he gave the ref a decision to make. If he stays on his feet then the ref has no decision to make in this hypothetical situation.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

I have a question for you. Do you think Bale's diving is going to make him more of a target when we play thugs? IMO the likes of Bale, Suarez and Ronaldo get a lot more nasty tackles because they do cheat. I hope he learns from Sunday. He looked stupid and missed a clear goal scoring opportunity. Next time he is fouled refs will be thinking twice.

Responded to this question from another poster but basically, Diving works and the rest of the footballing world is proof of it. If you dive well, it's not even diving. Messi dives and goes down very easily but his centre of gravity and timing is so good that he gets away with it. Bale just needs to improve his diving.
Refs have to protect players for a multitude of reasons.

He was never going to score from that either. If and that's a big if, he had got to the ball b4 it went out, there were Villa players in the way of the goal and it would have been far from easy. Going away from goal, sprinting to the ball, keeping it in, turning around and getting his balance would have taken enough time for Villa to recover.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

But by diving the way he did he gave the ref a decision to make. If he stays on his feet then the ref has no decision to make in this hypothetical situation.

agreed but what he does after the ref makes his decision is by the by.