Bernard

[Shadydan]

Eriksen is 1.77, Modric is 1.74, Bernard is 1.64(!).

A whole centimeter smaller than Juninho.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

A whole centimeter smaller than Juninho.

Gald we agree, then

 

[sirwilliam70]

That had better be metres and not feet dude.

ossie was tiny, bloody good though!

 

[Mouse!]

Cazorla? He's about Bernard's height and has coped well enough.

 

[SFCS]

It makes much more sense if we had the option to buy for say £18-20m, but even without that he'll probably do more than Lennon. It's more depth and it's an upgrade.

If we can't get MD then I don't see why not.

It's not more depth if we have another player who takes a half a season or more to prove any use to us(if at all). You can be dismissive about Lennon's contribution if you want but every manager at Spurs has made him an important player in their plans and I think that means a lot more than any of our opinions on the player. Besides, Pochettino isn't the type to sign loan players just to fill out the squad and if we sold Lennon we'd still have 3 wide players(plus Holtby, Kane and the youngsters) so we wouldn't be short on the wings.

 

[Hoopspur]

Jeez, Alex Pritchard towers over him at 1.71m! Mind you, Terry Gibson was (and probably still is) 1.63m. No matter if you are strong enough and after all he is a full International.

What's the real problem if it's a loan anyway? Although I know we'll have to pay though.

 

[Shadydan]

The argument that he's "too lightweight for the prem" is presented as fact, but I'm not sure I've seen any evidence?

I recall the same was said about Modric and Eriksen before we signed them and they turned out alright.

It's a cliche tbh...said when the latest carlos kickballs complete with an weaponry full of stepovers and lollipops (can't forget the diving scums that they are) who are deemed too tiny and malnourished await the monstrous roided up Premiership ogre defenders who crush the foreign ants with their humongous size 15 Mitre boots...nah they'll never settle over here.

 

[SFCS]

It's a cliche tbh...said when the latest carlos kickballs complete with an weaponry full of stepovers and lollipops (can't forget the diving scums that they are) who are deemed too tiny and malnourished await the monstrous roided up Premiership ogre defenders who crush the foreign ants with their humongous size 15 Mitre boots...nah they'll never settle over here.

It's not that they won't, it's that they'll find it more difficult. If it's an old, cliche or a myth then it's one the players believe too. You can't tell me you've never read about a player who arrived from a foreign league saying about the need to adapt to the pace and power in the Premier League. Even players that are technically very good like Drogba, Toure, Ronaldo, Bale(how many times did we see him bullied out of games early on) used their strength a lot to gain an advantage. When you see player like Welbeck nicking a living at a top side, I think it's hard to argue that athleticism and power are not big factors for becoming a successful Premier League player.

 

[spurs9]

Bernard's the kind of player I would always welcome at Spurs but a loan just seems like a lose/lose situation for us. We'd only have him for a season and in all liklihood it would take him half that just to settle and adapt. It took Sandro and Eriksen as long and will have taken Lamela longer still if he does adapt and start producing more than a hint of his talent. Bernard doesn't on the face of it seem to be a player that would find it easy to fit into the PL either. When you look at the players of a similar build that have - your Modrics, Silvas and Oscars - they are all exceptional players. I'm not sure Bernard is that good.

There are 3 outcomes I can see if we do get him on loan. If he does really well then he'll be sold at a high price to some rich club. If he does okay they may find it hard to get clubs to match their silly demands but they're stubborn at Shakhtar and if we did get him it would be at the expense of another long summer chasing him. Finally, if he doesn't settle and doesn't do well then why would we want him anyway?

Unless Shakhtar surprise us all and come out with a realistic valuation for him then I can't see any sense in trying to sign him on loan or permanently. Shakhtar aren't a club to be bullied and I can't see them letting us have him on loan for a season with a buyout clause, it would only weaken their ability to sell him for the highest price, which will be their only objective come next summer.

Counter to that, Coutinho adapted straight away and made a huge impact.

 

[SFCS]

Counter to that, Coutinho adapted straight away and made a huge impact.

He did. Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I think there's a very real risk that Bernard wouldn't take time to adapt, rendering a one year loan move fairly pointless.

 

[Snarfalicious]

I have a hard time believing Bernard could be any worse than Lennon. So, Bernard on loan and selling Lennon to use the funds for other areas of needs sounds like a win-win to me.

 

[spurs9]

He did. Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I think there's a very real risk that Bernard wouldn't take time to adapt, rendering a one year loan move fairly pointless.

TBH, It's almost impossible to tell how or how long a player will take to adapt to the EPL. Bernard has the right qualities we are looking for though, so it is well worth the risk to try him out on loan to see how adapts to the league.

 

[Barry Mead]

It's not that they won't, it's that they'll find it more difficult. If it's an old, cliche or a myth then it's one the players believe too. You can't tell me you've never read about a player who arrived from a foreign league saying about the need to adapt to the pace and power in the Premier League. Even players that are technically very good like Drogba, Toure, Ronaldo, Bale(how many times did we see him bullied out of games early on) used their strength a lot to gain an advantage. When you see player like Welbeck nicking a living at a top side, I think it's hard to argue that athleticism and power are not big factors for becoming a successful Premier League player.

You can say that but I doubt Messi would struggle at 5 ft 7, Maradonna was less around 5 ft 5/6, Aguero is only 5 ft 8, Cazorla 5 ft 5, Ardiles was 5 ft 7, Dave Mackay was 5ft 8 and the toughest player I've ever seen, Bremner was 5 ft 5, Alan Ball 5 ft 6, Juninho 5 ft 5, Tevez 5 ft 8, Nobby Stiles 5 ft 6, Ron Harris 5 ft 8

I've mentioned players from both the PL and the old Division 1 because the PL may be more intense now but it was tougher back then and yet some of the toughest were not big guys, If anything because it is less physical nowadays it's just getting used to the intensity and that's something that impacts you if you are tall or short

Good players play to the strengths they have and shorter players have a lower centre of gravity which can make them more agile and better balanced than taller players

Players may struggle to adapt to the PL, but I think that is not down to issues of height but quality of their football, desire, focus attitude. Some players with no pace flourish because they are intelligent have great vision and good skills. Teddy was a prime example, some players struggle to step up from the lower divisions but that didn't affect him nor did lack of pace.

No one can be sure any player will adjust to the PL, there's no guarantees that a player will adjust a switch from one PL club to another, but if they have the right skills and attitude they are far more relevant factors imo than height.

Of course you can argue that certain roles need height more than others but generally players play in positions their qualities can best shine. Even at CB there's been a few shorter players that have shone and presumably you look to sign players that shine in their position

 

[Shadydan]

It's not that they won't, it's that they'll find it more difficult. If it's an old, cliche or a myth then it's one the players believe too. You can't tell me you've never read about a player who arrived from a foreign league saying about the need to adapt to the pace and power in the Premier League. Even players that are technically very good like Drogba, Toure, Ronaldo, Bale(how many times did we see him bullied out of games early on) used their strength a lot to gain an advantage. When you see player like Welbeck nicking a living at a top side, I think it's hard to argue that athleticism and power are not big factors for becoming a successful Premier League player.

I've heard that said so many times when players move to the league that has indeed become a cliche in itself. The problem is that once upon a time the English League was mostly about physicality and power, route one football, cold, wet and windy nights, rough tackles, half time oranges, flat caps, terraces etc....but that was a long long time ago however it seems people cannot shake off the English stereotype which is why you hear pundits say silly things like can Messi do it on a cold night in Stoke and such...I'm sorry I just don't buy it.

There's been countless examples and many players who are deemed too small or too lightweight for the Premiership, some of the finest players who have stepped foot in this league were written off before a ball was even kicked yet they've gone onto be successful however here we are having the same discussion again about a player who is apparently too small to play amongst the uber monsters of the Premiership.

The fact that people are bringing up Bernard's height suggests that people are still focusing on the wrong things, it doesn't matter how tall or short you are to stand out in the Prem, any respectable league in fact, it's what you posses upstairs and your feet, nothing else.

And to be honest you're giving Danny Welbeck a huge disservice, if he was all about power and athleticism than he wouldn't have made it at Man Utd.

 

[dwaynedibley]

I have a hard time believing Bernard could be any worse than Lennon. So, Bernard on loan and selling Lennon to use the funds for other areas of needs sounds like a win-win to me.

I'm struggling to think of a single team who would or could buy Lennon, seriously can anyone think of a team that would????

 

[Kennington]

No basically.

 

[Barry Mead]

Yep, which is why he'd be pointless. A loan of a player that is built to not adjust to the PL unless he has a full season under his belt. He won't get that and then he'll go back. Absolutely pointless.

How would it be pointless if we have a year to see how he fitted and then we exercised an option. The chances of him wanting to go back to Ukraine are minimal, Shakhtar know that, loaning him allows a happier player to be able to show his qualities to a far bigger global audience than showing an unhappy player in a far more limited one. You take him on with a fair buy option

It would be a no lose, if he shines you take up the option and sign permanently a player you know is fitting in well, if you don't you are no worse off than signing another player who might not work out lets for example call him David Bentley but the difference being at the end of the season you pack off Bernard and you don't have a further four or 5 year wage commitment and you still have what lets say £15 mill you never spent

 

[Barry Mead]

I'm struggling to think of a single team who would or could buy Lennon, seriously can anyone think of a team that would????

I'm happy to have Lennon stay but I imagine there are quite a number of teams who would like to sign him

 

[Twizzle]

Do we really need this guy ?

 

[Snarfalicious]

I'm struggling to think of a single team who would or could buy Lennon, seriously can anyone think of a team that would????

I could think of a few, actually. We have heard that QPR don't want him as Harry didn't like him that much. But, I could make an argument for just about any mid-lower tier side. I just have no idea what kind of wages he's on at this point. I don't think we will get a good fee for him, but any little bit will help towards bringing in players that will make this squad better.