Bernard

[TEESSIDE1]

He hasn't played that much and I rarely watch Ukranian football these days, but I saw a bit of him before he moved and was impressed with him, good skill, good vision, seemed to be able to carve openings and know where players were. The sort of thing we could do with, we have lots of pacy options, but few with a final ball, and against tight defences pace might create an opportunity but if the final ball doesn't find a player then once again you are struggling.
I think with Shakhtar they are that much stronger than the other teams and the fact that he isn't playing much isn't necessarily a negative thing they buy Brazilian attacking players and are not really rushing to play them, they have had a gradual turnover over a number of seasons, Teixeira for example now starting to look real quality didn't play much when he first arrived, Willian was gradually introduced and took quite a while to adjust to the league, Jadson another excellent Brazilian for Shakhtar was gradually introduced. Bernard no doubt is thinking about the World Cup Lucescu no doubt is more concerned about Shakhtar. Of course he could take a while to adjust to the PL some players hit the ground running some take a while, I just think he has the ability toi find players with a decent final ball and that's something we could do with when facing tight defences that we often encounter. He's not the only player that can do that of course there are other options but if we can get him on a loan and have an option to buy then I think that would be a great opportunity for us
Of course you must have seen him lots because you feel we don't need him, lets hear what it is you don't like about the guy

As you're suggesting, just because he's rarely played ... it doesn't make him a bad player. If that was the case Lamela would be viewed by other teams as an extremely overrated player, which is not the case.

I like Bernard but we need to ditch a couple of players to get the best out of him, Lamela and Eriksen. Sig and Holtby are excess baggage whilst Lennon and Chadli are decent cover.

 

[Legend10]

As you're suggesting, just because he's rarely played ... it doesn't make him a bad player. If that was the case Lamela would be viewed by other teams as an extremely overrated player, which is not the case.

I like Bernard but we need to ditch a couple of players to get the best out of him, Lamela and Eriksen. Sig and Holtby are excess baggage whilst Lennon and Chadli are decent cover.

Watch a lot of Ukrainian football?

 

[danielneeds]

If we revert to one up top (Ade), Eriksen on the left, Bernard central, Lennon or Lamela on the right.

Paulinho and Sandro/Bentaleb/Dembele behind them.

It ain't gonna happen though. We don't need Bernard atm. Lamela not going to play on the right in the PL. He needs a free role behind the striker. Him or Soldado fighting for a place IMO.

 

[Barry Mead]

Well i have seen him lots and he isn't as good as anything we have, Lennon, Townsend, Lamela, Chadli are all better than him! He's alarmingly lightweight and even when he's bought on and Shaktar are dominating he doesn't look anything special and he's not going to be a starter at Shaktar anytime soon simply because they have better players than him. Douglas Costa is the best wide player at Shaktar and would be far better in England than Bernard, other than that in Ukraine Yarmalenko and Konoplyanka are both much better players than Bernard.

Well I would disagree with Lennon and Townsend, both in their own ways can be great when they are playing the flanks and getting past players, their problem is once they are in a position to put in a cross or play the pass far too often it goes to no one. Chadli for me is not even in the running, hardly a winger and equally hardly a striker, he's a bit of a mix imo but not particularly good at anything and again a player who rarely finds a player with a pass in the tight areas in the final third. Lamela yes because Lamela plays with his head up, sees the passes and goes for them, but ahead of Bernard for sure as he is a goalscorer too. It's understandable in many ways that neither Lamela or Bernard have hit the ground running day one because part of their game is being
familiar with anticipating a players movement and that can take a little while, but for me I don't really think that the handful of games either has played is a true reflection of their quality or future potential.
Now I'm not suggesting that in aspects of the game that Townsend and Lennon aren't better and of course both have PL experience as well, but in terms of distribution and vision Bernard looks to be stronger
As for looking lightweight, well he's never going to be a big player but actually one thing about playing in Ukraine that will have helped him is toughening up, it can be a pretty brutal introduction to some wild and fierce tackles. When I used to watch a bit of Ukranian football more regularly a few years back they seemed to get away with some tackles that would make Charlie Adam look a choirboy. If in the few games he's played he's looked a bit fragile then I can understand it, I would imagine Roy Keane would take a little while adjusting to some of that.
As for Douglas Costa he's entitled to be looking better than Bernard, he's been there over 3 years played well over 100 games for them and is familiar with the league and the team, but he wasn't so great in his early days and took some time to really impress.
As I said Bernard may not hit the ground running, but he has strengths we could benefit from and if we could get him settling in quickly then they would be an asset and on a loan deal you get an opportunity to see how well they fit in. I really don't worry too much about a good player not finding it in a certain league, the top leagues have been littered with players who have shone in one or two but struggled in another and to be fair the small amount of playing time Bernard has had in the Ukraine is hardly any time to judge him on anyway. Granted he was an emerging talent at Mineiro and still has it all to prove going forward and he could fall flat on his face but given the qualities he has shown and just as importantly the final pass weaknesses we so often have then a loan deal could be great for both

 

[Legend10]

Well I would disagree with Lennon and Townsend, both in their own ways can be great when they are playing the flanks and getting past players, their problem is once they are in a position to put in a cross or play the pass far too often it goes to no one. Chadli for me is not even in the running, hardly a winger and equally hardly a striker, he's a bit of a mix imo but not particularly good at anything and again a player who rarely finds a player with a pass in the tight areas in the final third. Lamela yes because Lamela plays with his head up, sees the passes and goes for them, but ahead of Bernard for sure as he is a goalscorer too. It's understandable in many ways that neither Lamela or Bernard have hit the ground running day one because part of their game is being
familiar with anticipating a players movement and that can take a little while, but for me I don't really think that the handful of games either has played is a true reflection of their quality or future potential.
Now I'm not suggesting that in aspects of the game that Townsend and Lennon aren't better and of course both have PL experience as well, but in terms of distribution and vision Bernard looks to be stronger
As for looking lightweight, well he's never going to be a big player but actually one thing about playing in Ukraine that will have helped him is toughening up, it can be a pretty brutal introduction to some wild and fierce tackles. When I used to watch a bit of Ukranian football more regularly a few years back they seemed to get away with some tackles that would make Charlie Adam look a choirboy. If in the few games he's played he's looked a bit fragile then I can understand it, I would imagine Roy Keane would take a little while adjusting to some of that.
As for Douglas Costa he's entitled to be looking better than Bernard, he's been there over 3 years played well over 100 games for them and is familiar with the league and the team, but he wasn't so great in his early days and took some time to really impress.
As I said Bernard may not hit the ground running, but he has strengths we could benefit from and if we could get him settling in quickly then they would be an asset and on a loan deal you get an opportunity to see how well they fit in. I really don't worry too much about a good player not finding it in a certain league, the top leagues have been littered with players who have shone in one or two but struggled in another and to be fair the small amount of playing time Bernard has had in the Ukraine is hardly any time to judge him on anyway. Granted he was an emerging talent at Mineiro and still has it all to prove going forward and he could fall flat on his face but given the qualities he has shown and just as importantly the final pass weaknesses we so often have then a loan deal could be great for both

I don't know how you do it, you watch the bottom team in France every week, you watch Miniero who aren't even one of the big teams in Brazil, you were watching Shaktar and Ukrainian football (i mean not even ukrainians watch ukrainian football), you're recommending players you are watching in Holland, Belgium and I'm not sure where else? Either you're a professional scout or you don't have a job or a life?

As for your points the Ukrainian league isn't as physical or as physically demanding as the Premier league, if Bernard is struggling with the physicality he will struggle with it more so in the Premiership. All of the Spurs players mentioned would tear the ukrainian league up, Lennon, Townsend & Lamela for sure, Belhanda has gone to Kiev and looks a world beater, Kranjcar played for Kiev with a cigar on the go! As for Douglas Costa i don't know what he was like when he first went to Shaktar although I'm sure Wikipedia will mirror what you're saying but he looks not just a better player but a miles better player, and although not tall has the physical attributes for a more physically demanding game like Lennon does as of course in Ukraine do Konoplyanka and Yarmalenko who are both much much better players than Bernard.

 

[danielneeds]

It's actually flipping laughable people are advocating signing an attacking midfielder.

We don't need more players, we need to blend the ones we have into a team.

If we are going to sign anything it should be cover at LB, maybe a CB is Kaboul is crocked. Anything else is madness.

 

[PrettyColors]

Even if Bernard was one of our main targets this summer (tbf, he was) Lamela was a much bigger target. So was Christian Eriksen.

Let's give Lamela a chance before we bring in some more players.

 

[TheAmerican]

He wouldn't compete with Lamela, he would be direct competition for the LW. It still doesn't make sense in our current formation, as he would be competing against Eriksen there.

 

[worcestersauce]

It doesn't say he is looking to move it says he is looking for a loan too get playing time so I don't see how or why we would even be a likely destination.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

He's still a young player (21?), so any of this "he's looking crap in the Ukraine League" talk is niether here nor there really. We would be looking at the potential surely? And as a full Brazilian International he clearly has potential, no argument. I agree though that a loan is pretty pointless at this stage unless there's a buyout clause or its part of some cunning plan to get him on the cheap. Very much would like to sign the lad. Probably media bullshit anyway.

 

[Barry Mead]

I don't know how you do it, you watch the bottom team in France every week, you watch Miniero who aren't even one of the big teams in Brazil, you were watching Shaktar and Ukrainian football (i mean not even ukrainians watch ukrainian football), you're recommending players you are watching in Holland, Belgium and I'm not sure where else? Either you're a professional scout or you don't have a job or a life?

As for your points the Ukrainian league isn't as physical or as physically demanding as the Premier league, if Bernard is struggling with the physicality he will struggle with it more so in the Premiership. All of the Spurs players mentioned would tear the ukrainian league up, Lennon, Townsend & Lamela for sure, Belhanda has gone to Kiev and looks a world beater, Kranjcar played for Kiev with a cigar on the go! As for Douglas Costa i don't know what he was like when he first went to Shaktar although I'm sure Wikipedia will mirror what you're saying but he looks not just a better player but a miles better player, and although not tall has the physical attributes for a more physically demanding game like Lennon does as of course in Ukraine do Konoplyanka and Yarmalenko who are both much much better players than Bernard.

Hold on a minute you must have been watching a lot of Shakhtar to have managed to see as much of Bernard as you say and yet you want to accuse me of not having a life? If you actually read what I said was that I used to watch Ukranian League a few years back, sure I've seen shakhtar since but mainly in Europe, I actually happen to like Shakhtar, I like the way they have blended some Brazilian attacking flair with some strong defensive qualities. I haven't a clue about Belgian Football, rarely watch Serie A although I like to watch Muriel when he's fit as he looks a developing player, have my times I watch Eredivisie or Portugal, don't really watch much BL these days. I used to watch a lot of Toulouse when they had Sissoko, Capoue and Gignac playing, they all looked players of real potential, later I watched St Etienne too as I thought Aubameyang and Guilavogui looked talents and yes in the last couple of years I have tried to see how Corchia has developed because I think he looks a cracking RB. But my main viewing other than Spurs is La Liga and just so you know yes I live in Spain and am retired, so I can get to watch the football I want, but as mentioned I tend to look at certain clubs, players or leagues and when a particular game appeals

I actually find it quite funny that you say even Ukranians don't watch Ukranian football, blame me for having watched it and happily lay claim to have watched a lot of Bernard at Shakhtar

Anyway lets look at Ukranian football I think you are getting a bit mixed up it is not as physically demanding as the PL as it's nowhere near as intense but it's physically demanding in so far as the tackles that happen, a lot that don't even get a card would be a sending off in the PL. When I used to watch it I'd regularly wince at some of the tackles that went on, of course you will have the odd awful tackle in the PL, but not with the regularity I used to see in the Ukranian League. Has it got better in the last few seasons? you tell me you seem to be the expert. Would Spurs players tear up the Ukranian League? It really depends on who they are playing for individual players for the most part can only do so much and most of the smaller leagues tend to have too thin a depth of talent, Shakhtar have a good squad and have always had enough money to attract a supply of promising Brazilian players to boost them and in a team like that after maybe a while adjusting to the game and the weather and the pitches they might do well, I guess some might shine in lesser teams but not see any real success, but somehow I don't see too many wanting to switch even if they were guaranteed a title practically every season and regular CL football as a result

 

[Legend10]

Hold on a minute you must have been watching a lot of Shakhtar to have managed to see as much of Bernard as you say and yet you want to accuse me of not having a life? If you actually read what I said was that I used to watch Ukranian League a few years back, sure I've seen shakhtar since but mainly in Europe, I actually happen to like Shakhtar, I like the way they have blended some Brazilian attacking flair with some strong defensive qualities. I haven't a clue about Belgian Football, rarely watch Serie A although I like to watch Muriel when he's fit as he looks a developing player, have my times I watch Eredivisie or Portugal, don't really watch much BL these days. I used to watch a lot of Toulouse when they had Sissoko, Capoue and Gignac playing, they all looked players of real potential, later I watched St Etienne too as I thought Aubameyang and Guilavogui looked talents and yes in the last couple of years I have tried to see how Corchia has developed because I think he looks a cracking RB. But my main viewing other than Spurs is La Liga and just so you know yes I live in Spain and am retired, so I can get to watch the football I want, but as mentioned I tend to look at certain clubs, players or leagues and when a particular game appeals

I actually find it quite funny that you say even Ukranians don't watch Ukranian football, blame me for having watched it and happily lay claim to have watched a lot of Bernard at Shakhtar

Anyway lets look at Ukranian football I think you are getting a bit mixed up it is not as physically demanding as the PL as it's nowhere near as intense but it's physically demanding in so far as the tackles that happen, a lot that don't even get a card would be a sending off in the PL. When I used to watch it I'd regularly wince at some of the tackles that went on, of course you will have the odd awful tackle in the PL, but not with the regularity I used to see in the Ukranian League. Has it got better in the last few seasons? you tell me you seem to be the expert. Would Spurs players tear up the Ukranian League? It really depends on who they are playing for individual players for the most part can only do so much and most of the smaller leagues tend to have too thin a depth of talent, Shakhtar have a good squad and have always had enough money to attract a supply of promising Brazilian players to boost them and in a team like that after maybe a while adjusting to the game and the weather and the pitches they might do well, I guess some might shine in lesser teams but not see any real success, but somehow I don't see too many wanting to switch even if they were guaranteed a title practically every season and regular CL football as a result

Well actually yes i do see a lot of Shaktar because i live in the Ukraine and Kiev & Shaktar games are repeated constantly, so it's virtually impossible not to catch them and football has even more coverage here than it gets in England, plus i live close to the Olympic stadium and stroll along sometimes to watch Kiev, will be going for sure on Feb 28th when kiev host Shaktar.

I'm not mixed up with Ukrainian football at all, however you may be. It's not an overly physical league and referees are actually quite strict. And yes the Spurs players mentioned would tear up the league here and are all better players than Bernard who hasn't impressed here at all, in fact there are 4 or 5 players in his area ahead of him at Shaktar and it's hard to see that changing any time soon. I'm not going to say that Spurs have no interest in him because i don't know, however i would be shocked if we did as he doesn't look good enough or strong enough for a club like Spurs in a league like the Premiership. I understand he made an impact in Brazil and there maybe impressive youtube clips of him, i really don't know, but he has been a disappointment here in Ukraine. He may come good, who knows, but there has been nothing to excite or to warrant excitement about signing him.

For the record Shaktar have more than enough money to attract a supply of promising Brazilians, their owner is Akhmetov who is richer than Abramovich, they sign Brazilians as a matter of club policy and shop there every year, money for them doesn't come into it.

 

[Jimmypearce7]

If it means less playing time for players we bought, most obviously Lamela, it can't be a good thing.

 

[Yid]

He will be lightweight and pushed off the ball a lot like Lamela now, we are trying to toughen our own player, don't need to help some Russian club toughen theirs.

Ukrainian, not Russian, just an FYI.

 

[Yid]

Stop this nonsense, only people who haven't been watching Bernard would be saying we should be considering him.

On the contrary, at least several people in this thread (including myself) tend to agree that Bernard is a capable, skilled, and talented player.
I watched him play quite a bit at Atletico Mineiro as an inverted winger on the left flank (& occasionally the right), and he's impressed the heck out of me. His determination & aggressive drive to succeed, together with tremendous explosive pace, vision, and versatility are also reasons why he garnered much demand from top European clubs in a very short time-frame and at a very tender young age.
I doubt the validity of the aforesaid rumour, but if it did have legs (and if Sherwood showed any capacity to be tactically flexible) I believe Bernard would greatly benefit our attacking front.
Just saying

 

[Yid]

..........(i mean not even ukrainians watch ukrainian football),.............you're recommending players you are watching in Holland, Belgium and I'm not sure where else? Either you're a professional scout or you don't have a job or a life?

As for your points the Ukrainian league isn't as physical or as physically demanding as the Premier league, if Bernard is struggling with the physicality he will struggle with it more so in the Premiership. All of the Spurs players mentioned would tear the ukrainian league up, Lennon, Townsend & Lamela for sure, Belhanda has gone to Kiev and looks a world beater, Kranjcar played for Kiev with a cigar on the go! As for Douglas Costa i don't know what he was like when he first went to Shaktar although I'm sure Wikipedia will mirror what you're saying but he looks not just a better player but a miles better player, and although not tall has the physical attributes for a more physically demanding game like Lennon does as of course in Ukraine do Konoplyanka and Yarmalenko who are both much much better players than Bernard.

First thing's first ->> Do you speak for all Ukrainian people all of the sudden? How do you know Ukrainians don't watch Ukrainian football?

Secondly, no need to get personal with people who are simply discussing football on this forum.

Third, your dislike of Bernard is pretty obvious, but (not considering the fact he's barely sniffed the pitch for Shakhtar since he got there) he has played a total of just 8 (that is EIGHT) Ukrainian league matches so far this season, during which he scored 1 goal and generated 7 assists. That's a goal per game contribution. How many wingers (or wide forwards, or other attacking players) do we currently have at Tottenham that are this productive? I rest my case.

PS. I also forgot to mention that Costa (having played twice as many league games - 16 - as Bernard) has generated 2 goals + 5 assists. Essentially lower numbers than Bernard (who's supposed to be an inferior footballer according to you), while playing twice as much as Bernard.

 

[Barry Mead]

Well actually yes i do see a lot of Shaktar because i live in the Ukraine and Kiev & Shaktar games are repeated constantly, so it's virtually impossible not to catch them and football has even more coverage here than it gets in England, plus i live close to the Olympic stadium and stroll along sometimes to watch Kiev, will be going for sure on Feb 28th when kiev host Shaktar.

I'm not mixed up with Ukrainian football at all, however you may be. It's not an overly physical league and referees are actually quite strict. And yes the Spurs players mentioned would tear up the league here and are all better players than Bernard who hasn't impressed here at all, in fact there are 4 or 5 players in his area ahead of him at Shaktar and it's hard to see that changing any time soon. I'm not going to say that Spurs have no interest in him because i don't know, however i would be shocked if we did as he doesn't look good enough or strong enough for a club like Spurs in a league like the Premiership. I understand he made an impact in Brazil and there maybe impressive youtube clips of him, i really don't know, but he has been a disappointment here in Ukraine. He may come good, who knows, but there has been nothing to excite or to warrant excitement about signing him.

For the record Shaktar have more than enough money to attract a supply of promising Brazilians, their owner is Akhmetov who is richer than Abramovich, they sign Brazilians as a matter of club policy and shop there every year, money for them doesn't come into it.

Well I can't say I agree with the tackling in Ukraine, maybe it's improved in the last two or three seasons but quite frankly I found some of the tackling seriously ugly. As for Bernard what's he played? maybe 8 games, how many actual minutes? I think that you are being harsher on Bernard than some of our fans are being on Lamela, I guess at least he has had to make the adjustment from Argentina to Italy, Bernard has gone straight from Brazil, he was hugely rated coming off a great breakthrough season and effectively a star of a pretty low standing team to a newcomer in a constantly successful one full of good players and some great players and familiar with the team and the league. Sometimes a player can step right in and shine, sometimes it takes a little while to adjust. I don't think Lamela has shone for us yet not like he did for some of the time at Roma, but I would not write him off because he has shown real quality . at Roma, was hugely rated in Argentina and has shown touches playing for us that indicate there is a player there waiting to emerge, he just needs a bit of time. One of the reasons I think a player with the qualities Bernard has shown would be a good fit is because he and Lamela both have good vision and will try and play great passes in the final third and could link very well. I love Lennon he's not just a great player running at defenders and getting round the back into dangerous areas he also has developed a really good cover game to help his defender, but his final pass often leaves a lot to be desired and Townsend is much the same, great pace and energy but more hopeful crosses than looking up and delivering an accurate ball to a well placed player. As we moved into becoming a top five team in recent years more and more we face teams wanting to defend deep and you need vision, intelligence and sometimes a bit of invention to carve decent chances or be left with for the most part hitting hopeful shots from distance. That might have worked a bit when we had Bale who could carve his own chances and hit fantastic goals, but he's gone and we have to find another Bale or improve our final third interplay. Maybe he might not be the Messiah but Bernard on a loan might just help give us that extra little bit of ability in the final third rather than prove just a naughty boy, if a loan was doable I can't see what we would have to lose

 

[Actonspur_FromCOYS]

I don't know how you do it, you watch the bottom team in France every week, you watch Miniero who aren't even one of the big teams in Brazil, you were watching Shaktar and Ukrainian football (i mean not even ukrainians watch ukrainian football), you're recommending players you are watching in Holland, Belgium and I'm not sure where else? Either you're a professional scout or you don't have a job or a life?

As for your points the Ukrainian league isn't as physical or as physically demanding as the Premier league, if Bernard is struggling with the physicality he will struggle with it more so in the Premiership. All of the Spurs players mentioned would tear the ukrainian league up, Lennon, Townsend & Lamela for sure, Belhanda has gone to Kiev and looks a world beater, Kranjcar played for Kiev with a cigar on the go! As for Douglas Costa i don't know what he was like when he first went to Shaktar although I'm sure Wikipedia will mirror what you're saying but he looks not just a better player but a miles better player, and although not tall has the physical attributes for a more physically demanding game like Lennon does as of course in Ukraine do Konoplyanka and Yarmalenko who are both much much better players than Bernard.

Barry is a knowledgable guy who, over the years, has given a very accurate insight into some of the worlds lesser known players and leagues.

Don't know why you're trying to belittle him for that - this is a forum devoted to a football club. Surely we are all interested in football - not sure how having a serious hobby equates to having no life.

 

[Legend10]

First thing's first ->> Do you speak for all Ukrainian people all of the sudden? How do you know Ukrainians don't watch Ukrainian football?

Secondly, no need to get personal with people who are simply discussing football on this forum.

Third, your dislike of Bernard is pretty obvious, but (not considering the fact he's barely sniffed the pitch for Shakhtar since he got there) he has played a total of just 8 (that is EIGHT) Ukrainian league matches so far this season, during which he scored 1 goal and generated 7 assists. That's a goal per game contribution. How many wingers (or wide forwards, or other attacking players) do we currently have at Tottenham that are this productive? I rest my case.

Funny post!

Firstly no i don't speak for all Ukrainian people, that would be absurd. However i do know more than enough and go to Dinamo sometimes with enough to know that the Bundesliga, La Liga & the Premiership hold more interest for them than their own league. I am friendly with a number of members of the Russian & Ukrainian Spurs supporters club called Russian Spurs so I'm going to guess i talk about Ukrainian football with more people than yourself? And i can say with a great deal of confidence that they would be very surprised if they thought that people from countries like England, Spain, Germany, Italy etc were spending their time watching The Ukrainian league, and where are they watching it? There aren't too many countries buying the rights to show Ukrainian football, can't see Sky Sports, BT Sport, Fox Sports etc buying the rights anytime soon, Eurosport don't even do a round up on it! If you look hard enough i suppose you might might find a stream for Dinamo or Shakhtar, but i wouldn't be sure.

Secondly i wasn't getting personal with anybody, asking somebody if they are a professional scout because of the amount of different teams they watch and the amount of different players they watch isn't being personal, it's asking a perfectly valid question.

Thirdly i don't dislike Bernard, i don't even know the bloke so why would i dislike him? And your final point where you so proudly rest your case is absurd. Your comparing the Ukrainian league and the Premiership as like for like that is completely ridiculous. How many of our forwards are wide players are as productive, none! There could be 2 obvious reasons for that:

1) Bernard is better than all of our wide forwards and attacking players!

Or

2) The Premiership just happens to be an infinitely more difficult league than the Ukrainian one, where Shakhtar in most games are massively better than the opposition and completely dominate!

Before you 'rest your case', which do you think it is?

 

[Barry Mead]

Barry is a knowledgable guy who, over the years, has given a very accurate insight into some of the worlds lesser known players and leagues.

Don't know why you're trying to belittle him for that - this is a forum devoted to a football club. Surely we are all interested in football - not sure how having a serious hobby equates to having no life.

Kind of you to say so Acton, although I'll hold my hands up and say I've also called a few turkeys over the years, but that's the thing with young players in particular, they can show qualities early on without really seeming to step up, then they might hit a real purple patch and with little track record you question whether it is a real step up or just a purple patch. What makes a good player for me is not occasional top quality play that often flatters to deceive, but how well a player can play around his best level on a consistent basis. With young players in most cases you can't be 100 pc sure, you can only look at the qualities they show and their character and determination. I like what I see with Bernard but Legend could prove right going forward, only time will tell, but for me I see a player with skills we could benefit from on a loan where we don't blow a fortune to see if it works as a great deal. Don't get me wrong if we were looking at say Griezmann I'd say there you have a player with the skill, vision, versatility and goals that has gotten better and better over the last three seasons in particular, if we were looking at say Iker Muniain despite him not having a great season last year I would say another player more proven with the skill and vision and huge desire and character (arguably something that needs to be channelled better) and go for them ahead of Bernard, but both of those would cost around 30 mill euros assuming their clubs would sell and that their many other admirers didn't provide a better option for them to choose. Bernard on the other hand if there is any truth in the suggestion that Shakhtar would let him go out on loan should be pretty gettable and for a comparatively small loan fee. There's really not much of a downside that I can see, we add a player and have funds for a lb or a cb if Eunice is still struggling, a striker, whatever
Anyway time will tell, as with all these rumours there's no guarantee that there's any truth in it anyway and it may prove a little Shakespearian (that's "much ado about nothing" btw-or maybe it could be "a midsummer nights bad dream")