Ched Evans Jailed...

[we_all_loved_freund]

As I said, I read the "Full transcript" on crime line and have even quoted it and the judges comments. However as I said if you can point me to the direction of evidence indicating an injustice, please go ahead?

No, you said you had "read the full transcript for the original case". I can absolutely guarantee that you haven't.

To be honest, and I apologise in advance if this comes across condescending (I know it will but it is genuinely how I feel), I really can't be bothered to debate the intricacies of an appeal judgment on an online forum, with a person who is not a lawyer and who seems pretty blinkered in their views.

I may come back (when I am more awake and in a better mood) and write a long post on what my thoughts are on the original decision and, primarily, the grounds of appeal.

 

[ethanedwards]

No, you said you had "read the full transcript for the original case". I can absolutely guarantee that you haven't.

To be honest, and I apologise in advance if this comes across condescending (I know it will but it is genuinely how I feel), I really can't be bothered to debate the intricacies of an appeal judgment on an online forum, with a person who is not a lawyer and who seems pretty blinkered in their views.

I may come back (when I am more awake and in a better mood) and write a long post on what my thoughts are on the original decision and, primarily, the grounds of appeal.

r

 

[Drexl]

Funny how she's a 'cheap slut' who gets no sympathy, from the same posters who then wax lyrical about their #lad adventures. Banter banter banter. Basically using anecdotes to skirt around the age old 'she was asking for it' defence. In particular, Drexls' lad banter story sounds quite rapey, but I can understand why he can't see the problem - he's so dumb he makes Chelsea fans look like particle physicists.

I am just uncomfortable with the fact that rape has virtually become a throwaway word thanks to the reaction about the evans case

If Evans is a rapist then every guy that has ever had sex with a drunk girl is a rapist as technically the girl is not capable in law of truly giving consent, millions of guys in the country, including myself, are rapists then (just unconvicted ones), and that to me trivialises and cheapens what is one of the vilest and most abhorrent crimes on the planet

A lot of girls carry condoms around on a night out Incase they pull, perhaps every guy in the country should buy a breathalyser machine Incase they pull and make the girl blow into it before she pulls her knickers down

 

[KentuckyYid]

I am just uncomfortable with the fact that rape has virtually become a throwaway word thanks to the reaction about the evans case

If Evans is a rapist then every guy that has ever had sex with a drunk girl is a rapist as technically the girl is not capable in law of truly giving consent, millions of guys in the country, including myself, are rapists then (just unconvicted ones), and that to me trivialises and cheapens what is one of the vilest and most abhorrent crimes on the planet

A lot of girls carry condoms around on a night out Incase they pull, perhaps every guy in the country should buy a breathalyser machine Incase they pull and make the girl blow into it before she pulls her knickers down

Yep, that's where we're heading. In fact California have already started it with another gender biased law. This time the feminists campaigned that drunk women are too silly or stupid to give consent, but drunk men aren't too silly or stupid to give consent. I really pity young men on college campuses these days.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29406138
The legislation also says that silence or a lack of resistance do not constitute consent. Under the bill, someone who is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep cannot grant consent.

A little while after the new law was signed into effect an app was released on the App Store, allowing guys to get consent there and then, while the moment was hot (as probably nobody carries a consent form with them), but it didn't last long, as the faux internet rage made its way to Apple and the new allegedly rapey app was taken down

 

[tototoner]

Maybe blokes on a night out need to start bringing a notebook and pen with them to get consent in writing before anything happens, bit of a passion killer though.

 

[SpursOldBoy]

Tend to agree, the amount of times I've woken up, wondering what the fuck I did the night before - walking around pubs with my cock out, streaking naked through trains, birds I've woken up with, money I've drawn out to continue said partying - that feeling of regret, or what the fuck was I doing....

Horrible feeling like that!

I know that feeling mate. I'm too old for that now but back in the day me and my mates used to do all sorts... most of the time I did remember it the next day but on the odd occasion I had to be reminded of what we had done! I had a mate who did the cock out trick in the middle of of a gig and had to be restrained and hospitalised he was so off it!

 

[idontgetit]

I mean it's impossible what effect immediate or delayed booze can have on different people.

I again fail to see the inconsistency. She was drunk but wanted to go back with Mcdonald. They did the deed then while still drunk Evans comes in, she was then not in a good enough state to consent and he couldn't have thought that she was.

If two sober people meet in a room and agree to fuck there and then, is that rape? If not then how do you know she didn't want to fuck Evans? I'm guessing she was drunk and horny and really didn't care and the two guys didn't realise she was black-out drunk

 

[Coyboy]

If two sober people meet in a room and agree to fuck there and then, is that rape? If not then how do you know she didn't want to fuck Evans? I'm guessing she was drunk and horny and really didn't care and the two guys didn't realise she was black-out drunk

I don't know but 12 people seeing and hearing more evidence than you or I believed beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't. Two courts of, I'd hazard a guess, far more legal expertise than you or I didn't see the need to question the decision.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Maybe blokes on a night out need to start bringing a notebook and pen with them to get consent in writing before anything happens, bit of a passion killer though.

Yeah it's getting as if you can't even take advantage of a drunk girl anymore.

What is the world coming to?

 

[tototoner]

Yeah it's getting as if you can't even take advantage of a drunk girl anymore.

What is the world coming to?

That is a good reply to be fair, bravo

 

[idontgetit]

I don't know but 12 people seeing and hearing more evidence than you or I believed beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't. Two courts of, I'd hazard a guess, far more legal expertise than you or I didn't see the need to question the decision.

Which is the fucking issue. No one knows because the judge didn't clarify it. No one knows on an issue that is worse than being accused of murder and on a topic that involves thousands of young people on every drunk night out

 

[tototoner]

Yeah it's getting as if you can't even take advantage of a drunk girl anymore.

What is the world coming to?

Basic question, what percentage of drunken shags in the UK - Western Europe even - last night and tonight between 2 intoxicated but consenting adults ( because she did consent, too drunk to remember or realise or not ) will result in rape convictions?

Not that high I would think.

 

[Coyboy]

Which is the fucking issue. No one knows because the judge didn't clarify it. No one knows on an issue that is worse than being accused of murder and on a topic that involves thousands of young people on every drunk night out

No I don't know that she didn't consent. No one can know without being telepathic. It's about believing beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't.

 

[idontgetit]

No I don't know that she didn't consent. No one can know without being telepathic. It's about believing beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't.

Of which there is evidence that she did consent and none that she didn't beyond simply being drunk. So the legal system is now assuming guilt instead of innocence? But the question I asked was if two sober people met in the manner of this girl and Evans, would 'yes' have been deemed enough for consent?

 

[Coyboy]

Of which there is evidence that she did consent and none that she didn't beyond simply being drunk. So the legal system is now assuming guilt instead of innocence? But the question I asked was if two sober people met in the manner of this girl and Evans, would 'yes' have been deemed enough for consent?

No here is evidence that Evans had not taken steps to ascertain consent and he should not have thought she had consented.

Anyway in boozer in Selhurst COYS and laters.

 

[Drexl]

I think this case also reflects badly on the jury system

I have never been a fan of the jury system, a judge making a legal judgement based on facts or a panel of judges is always the best way, jury's can often be filled with not particularly bright people

Would you want someone like a chav or long term unemployed person or woman who has popped out 10 kids deciding your fate? They weren't necessarily on the jury that time with Ched but poor people and people with low education are unlikely to be able to grasp legal facts and are more judgemental

I think a judge would have found Ched not guilty

 

[jurgen]

Fucking hell

 

[dontcallme]

From what I read on Crimeline I got the impression that Evans' actions were deemed as rape because of the way he imposed himself on the situation.

Macdonald texted him to say he was going to the hotel with a drunk girl. Evans then got a hotel room key, his mates were there to film it and he entered the hotel room uninvited planning to have sex with a girl he'd never even met.

At best it was opportunist, scumbag behaviour. Those who heard the whole case deemed it rape.

For me it at least quashes the idea that it's strange that Macdonald got off and Evans didn't.

 

[Drexl]

From what I read on Crimeline I got the impression that Evans' actions were deemed as rape because of the way he imposed himself on the situation.

Macdonald texted him to say he was going to the hotel with a drunk girl. Evans then got a hotel room key, his mates were there to film it and he entered the hotel room uninvited planning to have sex with a girl he'd never even met.

At best it was opportunist, scumbag behaviour. Those who heard the whole case deemed it rape.

For me it at least quashes the idea that it's strange that Macdonald got off and Evans didn't.

He didn't just jump on her, he asked her could he have a go and she replied "yes, lick me out"

If he had forced himself on her I would have a different viewpoint but they were having a good time, did the night porter hear any screams or "get off me"? no. She was loving it, fact she could not remember next morning should not have been Evans' problem

The more I read and think about the situation the less I understand why he got convicted

 

[Syn_13]

Would you want someone like a chav or long term unemployed person or woman who has popped out 10 kids deciding your fate? They weren't necessarily on the jury that time with Ched but poor people and people with low education are unlikely to be able to grasp legal facts and are more judgemental

You know what. I think I actually agree with you about not letting idiots be in the jury. I'd hate to be in the docks and see you in there.

That paragraph is all sorts of ridiculous. "Poor people and people with low education are able to grasp legal facts and are more judgemental"? What planet are you living on? Some of the brightest and best around the world have come from shit backgrounds to make something of themselves. It's pretty insulting, to tell the truth.

I tell you what. Let's try and push for a law where you can only be part of a jury if you're from a middle class background at the very least, and was taught in a grammar/private school. None of that working class, poorly educated, bottom feeding shit here please.

I don't do neg reps, and normally I just let comments like that slide, but that was bloody close.