Is it buggery. You need to read up on your post-Spanish Civil War history, and probably your Spanish history full-stop.
the spanish elections used to go like this. You could vote for franco or no Franco. If you voted no Franco you had the police knocking on your door the next day.
Franco did away with the generalitat. They killed the president of Barcelona and the Catalan president Lluis Companys during the war. Jordi Pujol the future president of catalunya was put in jail for 15 years.
Do you want me to go on????? It would be fantastic to do the treble. Madrid have never done it. I though the Cryuff 4 in a row and the 2006 team were special. I think this team is better.
I grew up in Catalunya. Barcelona aren't liked by Madrid fans and like it or lump it football IS political and has been in many countries for a long time.
Real Madrid and Franco MADE Barcelona political. Barcelona became political because Camp Nou was the only place in Spain where the Catalan language was allowed to be spoken when Franco was in charge. Franco opressed the Catalans and Basques to a ridiculous degree, banning their language, banning their food, banning their dances, their feast days, everything.
Franco intervened constantly to give Real Madrid an edge. Many infamous accounts of Barcelona goals being disallowed minutes AFTER they'd been given when a government official called over the referee to 'have a chat'. Only Real Madrid fans now deny what they openly chanted from the terraces back in the 60's and 70's because they are ashamed.
Barcelona's attitude ISN'T hated in the rest of the country. Euskadi, Andalucía, Galicia,Aragón, and the Comunitat Valenciana all have large Barcelona followings. Many more Spaniards are pro-Catalan Independence than the Castillian channels would have us believe. They just won't admit it and instead release hilarious statements such as "All Catalans are Nazi's".
It isn't even just Barça fans that are for independence either...there are Catalan Madrid fans, Asspanyol fans, Atletico Madrid fans and fans of pretty much all teams who are pro-indepencence. My best frind supports Mandril and he is very pro-Catalalunya. In fact FC Barcelona as a club has never made any mention of where they stand in the Catalan independence debate. Fans can think what they want, but then calling all Barça fans pro-Catalan is like calling all Spurs fans Jewish. Barça supporters come from all walks of life and political persuasions and whilst the club encourages and promotes Catalan customs and culture it is short sighted to put the whole nationalist movement on its shoulders, especially when it has never advocated independence and keeps its mouth shut in an official capacity on political issues. When Laporta talks about Catalan independence he isnt talking as an FCB president, but from his own beliefs.
BUt I too commended Chelsea's defensive abilities. Even playing defensively, Barca are an impossible side to limit and stifle. I really couldn't give a shit if you wanted Chelsea to win But take issue with some of what you said and find it churlish at best. The best team didn't win ? If you think the best team didn't win then you prefer to watch defensive organisational football.
You are perfectly entitled to that opinion.
Chelsea weren't fucked over by the ref any more than Barca were. A ball hits the top of a players arm with his back turned from two yards ? Clear cut ? do me a favour. Every single one of those penalties were 50/50 for the rest of us. It's only when you possess histrionic ref pressurisers like Chelsea and ManU that those 50/50's intensify. The sending off was clearly wrong and should have cost Barca far more.
Chelsea lost because despite having a man advantage, and being at home and possessing players like Malouda, Anelka, Essien, Ballack, Lampard, Drogba, Boswinga, Cole not to mention those on the bench like Deco etc, all equally capable of playing fast attacking football they didn't have the courage to kill the game off and despite having a man advantage they still couldn't outplay Barca.
To be fair I think Franco wasn't just anti Catalan he was anti anyone who wasn't on his side and in Catalunya and Euskadi the opposition manifested itself in a nationalist manner following on from their autonomy under the previous regime however Franco did nothing less to federal government and regional government members that opposed him as well.
Like all dictators Franco saw kudos in sporting excellence and so would always want to enable a chosen favourite to succeed internationally in this case it was Real Madrid.
and it all mentions Franco had any input on Real Madrid's success?
I first heard about this on here after you mentioned it many months ago. I did some reading about it and found no conclusive proof at all that Franco interferred with football.
Its all legend, probably made up by 'opressed' catalunians.
You aren't going to find me defending or excusing Franco. I know fully well that all other non-Castillian nationalisms were sharply oppressed leading to the formation and militirization of Eta. But that was thirty years ago, Spain has changed immeasurably since then- industrialized and grown economically, until very recently, more than any other country bar Japan. But I don't see the need nowdays to make a political comment out of football. I hate politicised sport when it is so militant.
I know fully well that Barca fans are not homogenous group. No sets of fans are. But a great deal of them espouse quasi-separatist and anti-Castllian tenets which have no place in football for me. If they believe them fine, but don't use them to score petty points over other teams. I believe that Barca's slogan is 'mes que un club' or something in Catalan but it doesn't have to be so malign and indignant as if often is. I am not talking about how they celebrated last night, nothing wrong with that, but things like how they reacted to losing under Rijkaard and how they reacted to winning- Eto'o and Puyol's comments stand out for me.
As for the rest of Spain, of course there are strong areas of Barca support as there are for Madrid but there is an ill feeling towards Catalan nationalism throughout. I witnessed this living in one of the provinces you mention, Valencia. There was far more anti-Barca sentiment when they came to the Mestalla than Madrid, Madrid are not liked at all but many in Valencia- almost all I knew and talked to- did not like the political views espoused and in some cases aggresively pursued by Catalans. And Barca, as more than a club, are an inextricable part of it. I don't like that, you may have pride in that. That's fine. This issue divides many Spaniards.
What Franco did was inexcusable and the resistance, a lot of pacific and cultural in Cataluna was commendable, but now thirty five years on Spain is the most decentralised and federalised country in Europe so Cataluna has autonomy, it has its language, its culture but significant elements within the club see the need to politicise wins and losses. That is what annoys me. How they play football I have little problem with, but my point about the game was that they didn't play well in the game and were outfought by Chelsea. They won, congrats, but a little humility even admiting that Essien scored a terrific goal wouldn't hurt would it?
I just refuse to bow down to the ref being on our side.
To put it bluntly, If Spurs had been in Barcelona's situation I really don't see most people on here dwelling on Chelsea's plight much, nor Essien's goal.
Wow, that's a bit sick and unpleasant to read.and it all mentions Franco had any input on Real Madrid's success?
I first heard about this on here after you mentioned it many months ago. I did some reading about it and found no conclusive proof at all that Franco interferred with football.
Its all legend, probably made up by 'opressed' catalunians.
Ok good luck but please don't ever quesiton my support of Tottenham again. I do admit to following Madrid in Spain but that is only part of it. I wanted Chelsea to win, like I did Hamburg tonight, they didn't, I won't lose any sleep over it but I won't apologise for it or let some kid tell me to fuck off or that I am not a real supporter. Pathetic.
not pathetic but, nyways ill stop now.
btw: who neg repped me? haha i dont even care about my rep im just here to make posts:rofl:
It's not that I prefer that sort of football at all but Barca's style didn't work well and was not that attractive to watch because there was no end product, no finishing touches and many of their better players especially Eto'o had awful games. Chelsea did well at what they are capable of and some of the players you mention had very good games- Lamps, Malouda and Essien.
I think they were all, with the exception of Eto'o's penalties. I think you would have been pretty jaundiced to deny any of them. Drogba had an awful night and much of his awful behavior after that was probably anger at himself. He also does himself no favours by going down so much that when he is brought down unfairly as he was by Abidal- he gets nothing. The boy who cries wolf sums it up pretty well.
So you cannot conclude that because I thought the best team won, I prefer defensive organisational football. I prefer a happy balance. Chelsea defended excellently, created chances and didn't finish them off. Barca defended like chumps, created no chances and passed the ball well but impenetrably for 90 minutes. So I think it is up for interpretation which was the better team. I think one way you think tother, nout wrong with that. The bottom line for me, though, is that if the ref had his head screwed on- Chelsea would have had a penalty in the 82nd minute and killed the game (and yes Dougs if Lamps hadn't had a Keane).
I've got to agree with Johan Cruyff, who hardly impartial, hits the nail right on the head with these comments published in the Sun today:
"Dutch legend Cruyff reckons the Blues chief was too cautious when he replaced Didier Drogba with defender Juliano Belletti after Eric Abidal had been sent off.
And the former Barca boss blasted fellow countryman Hiddink’s negative tactics over the two legs.
Cruyff said: “Barca were down to 10 men with 25 minutes left when Hiddink changed Drogba.
“But he didn’t look to kill the game off. He thought he’d won or there was no more danger. He made a big mistake.
“If you analyse the two games, the team going to Rome is the only one who played football.”
These comments echo the famous words of the great Danny Blanchflower when he said:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
Perhaps if Hiddink had sent his side out to beat Barca, instead of waiting for them to "die of boredom", then Chelsea might have won and those four penalties Chelsea had turned down would'nt have mattered.
Of course chelsea attacks are swift because they were all counter attacks
It is definitely over now
I think Man Utd stand the best chance of winning, providing that they keep their players injury free. If they can tie up the PL before the end, then both Barca and Man Utd can rest players, so we should at least see two teams going for it.