Match Threads Chelsea vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 10

[14/04/91]

Far from comparing. But in the barcelona that won the entire midfield he had no Sissoko. His greatest defense was possession. Why can't we try something similar with Hojberg, Lo Celso, Ndombele?

We probably will. When they're all 100% fit and the opponents allow it.
I am 99.9% certain we wouldn't have beaten Man City nor drawn with Chelsea with those 3.
The covering of the space between our full-backs and centre-halves was key, especially against City. Sissoko and Hojbjerg were the only players capable of carrying out that role.

 

[wakefieldyid]

? it’s my opinion. I don’t rate Sissoko. I’m allowed to state my opinion fella. I think the positive impact he has defensively is totally negated by the fact he can’t help us in an attacking sense, especially not in the role he’s playing recently where he picks the ball up very deep and can’t even make one of his bursts forward as it’s too risky. What does he then offer in terms of skill and composure in the ball and vision to play forward and build attacks? Absolutely nothing. I’m not disagreeing with anyone about his defensive impact, he’s been very good in that sense but I think his deficiencies pretty much overshadow that. Sorry for thinking Chelsea were there for the taking if we played a better player instead of Sissoko and being disappointed we didn’t win the game ? A draw is a good result but we could have won that game with more ambition and skill on the pitch

Ironically, I was reading the opinion of a Chelsea fan who was saying much the same about Kante's performance yesterday, i.e. it's no good Kante repeatedly winning the ball if he's got no idea what you're going to do with it. His view was that Chelsea never developed any real attacking threat on the turnover for this specific reason. It's the price that Fat Frank chose to pay to nullify the threat from Spurs, just as Mourinho used Sissoko to nullify Chelsea. Ultimately, despite Frank's post-match posturing, both managers achieved exactly what they expected when they set out the teams the way that they did.

 

[smallsnc]

Far from comparing. But in the barcelona that won the entire midfield he had no Sissoko. His greatest defense was possession. Why can't we try something similar with Hojberg, Lo Celso, Ndombele?

Who are you referring to? Jose did not manage Barcelona, besides the fact that as much as I love our Spurs we are no where near the the Barcelona teams in skill when it comes to possessing the ball. Most of their players came up through their system and had been playing that way since age 12.

 

[14/04/91]

Ironically, I was reading the opinion of a Chelsea fan who was saying much the same about Kante's performance yesterday, i.e. it's no good Kante repeatedly winning the ball if he's got no idea what you're going to do with it. His view was that Chelsea never developed any real attacking threat on the turnover for this specific reason. It's the price that Fat Frank chose to pay to nullify the threat from Spurs, just as Mourinho used Sissoko to nullify Chelsea. Ultimately, despite Frank's post-match posturing, both managers achieved exactly what they expected when they set out the teams the way that they did.

And if Kante didn't play yesterday, I wonder what that Chelsea fan would've said about Kane dropping into all the space left by Kante's absence...?

 

[Oscar22]

I’m pleased with the result, given our recent record away to Chelsea I don’t see anything wrong with a point. I didn’t see anything from us to suggest we deserved a win over them, I think we played well but I think a draw was a fair result overall.

If we now take 3 points from Arsenal and at least 1 from Liverpool, I really don’t see how anyone can be upset with that run of results.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Far from comparing. But in the barcelona that won the entire midfield he had no Sissoko. His greatest defense was possession. Why can't we try something similar with Hojberg, Lo Celso, Ndombele?

Are you talking about the dominating Barcelona side that had Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets, in their pomp? Because I think you're probably answering your own question there.

 

[idontgetit]

This.

I really hate saying this sometimes as it makes me sound like i'm some sort of know it all football sofa fan, but I do wonder how people watch football, because despite Sissokos obvious flaws on the ball and going forward, if you can't see or appreciate what he brings to the team as a whole then I have to question that persons overall football knowledge.

Thats what Shadydan is saying, Sissoko is probably the most unappreciated player in our team and has been for a very very long time, too many people judge him on what he does on the ball and don't realise how much he does for the team tactically and physically off the ball, it's invaluable, there's a reason he's in the first team every week.

For those who don't like him, next game you watch live, rather than looking at the action and the actual ball, try and look and Sissoko and what he's doing off the ball every now and then, it's quite interesting watching players instead of the ball sometimes as it brings a better understanding of the tactics and formation when in and out of possession. I think If more people paid attention to this sort of thing then they wouldn't question his place in the squad as much.

I think, at least on here, a lot of people do really understand what Sissoko contributes off the ball. The argument is more one of fundamental philosophy. Do we set up to play our best football? Or do we set up to prevent the opposition playing their best football? Picking Sissoko is a clear vote for the latter because he's great off the ball and poor on it, and plays in a position where you really need someone to be good at both.

 

[Kingellesar]

I’m pleased with the result, given our recent record away to Chelsea I don’t see anything wrong with a point. I didn’t see anything from us to suggest we deserved a win over them, I think we played well but I think a draw was a fair result overall.

If we now take 3 points from Arsenal and at least 1 from Liverpool, I really don’t see how anyone can be upset with that run of results.

Exaclty this, also worth noting that Chelsea were on a 6 win streak (all comps) before yesterday, so it's not like they were there for the taking, we actually did a very good job to stop a team who have been scoring freely this season.

I would take points away at Chelsea, Liverpol and City every season, that for me is the 3 toughest grounds we go to. Plus it put us back top which can only give the squad confidence, it would be nice now to build on the points tally and momentum and try to create a gap at the top.

 

[GLC10]

Sometimes the best defense is to maintain possession of the ball. Sissoko is very useful to cover spaces, but then he doesn't know what to do with the ball. Ndombele needs someone by his side who speaks the same football language.

 

[GLC10]

And I don't understand how Mourinho hasn't played at least a few minutes with Lo Celso-Tanguy in a year.

 

[Shadydan]

And I don't understand how Mourinho hasn't played at least a few minutes with Lo Celso-Tanguy in a year.

Jose Mourinho hints at potential Ndombele-Lo Celso partnership

Tottenham Hotspur boss Jose Mourinho has told Football.London that he does think Tanguy Ndombele and Giovani Lo Celso can play together. Spurs were in action...

www.hitc.com

 

[Gassin's finest]

And I don't understand how Mourinho hasn't played at least a few minutes with Lo Celso-Tanguy in a year.

N'Dombele couldn't adapt to the Premier League last season, and still can't last longer than an hour. Lo Celso is coming back from injury. And we have to manage the squad with the pace of the fixtures this season.

Its not much more than that.

 

[Flobadob]

He is our combat medic. He doesn't score goals or provide assists, but his contribution is still absolutely vital to our point yesterday and our win last weekend.
Together with Højbjerg he was extremely good at preventing Chelsea from building attacks, and especially setting up runs in behind our defence. LoCelso would surely contribute more going forward, but perhaps we would lost the game 1-2 then.

I’d rather just sign a RB that doesn’t need a baby sitter and play a real central midfielder mate, I’m not gonna lie ? Do you see Reguillon being baby sitted all game? No, because he’s top class. Aurier has been decent but he’s covered (very well I will admit) by Sissoko all game and we then lose control of the midfield. We play Sissoko, we give up midfield control against the top sides. I just don’t want to see that. He’s a poor central midfielder, it’s as simple as that. He defends well because he’s physical but he’s in the bottom 1% in the league in every other aspect of the game

 

[Flobadob]

Ironically, I was reading the opinion of a Chelsea fan who was saying much the same about Kante's performance yesterday, i.e. it's no good Kante repeatedly winning the ball if he's got no idea what you're going to do with it. His view was that Chelsea never developed any real attacking threat on the turnover for this specific reason. It's the price that Fat Frank chose to pay to nullify the threat from Spurs, just as Mourinho used Sissoko to nullify Chelsea. Ultimately, despite Frank's post-match posturing, both managers achieved exactly what they expected when they set out the teams the way that they did.

That’s fair enough and an interesting insight. However, putting Kante in the same category as Sissoko is a bit of a crazy argument. It’s night and day in terms of quality on the ball, even if Kante did have a bad game in that fans opinion

 

[Serpico]

Lampard (the master tactitician) angry doing his post match interview or what (what a tw@). Lampards half time team talk must of consisted of: "go out and rough em up boys, leave the boot in and their soft underbelly will show". Sorry to disappoint Frank. Credit to the ref he was on it and played a blinder by penalising the Chelsea (thugs) players. Jose was brilliant post match and tactically - well done. twice now we haven't crumble with the idea of going top-this could be for real.

 

[Bulletspur]

I’d rather just sign a RB that doesn’t need a baby sitter and play a real central midfielder mate, I’m not gonna lie ? Do you see Reguillon being baby sitted all game? No, because he’s top class. Aurier has been decent but he’s covered (very well I will admit) by Sissoko all game and we then lose control of the midfield. We play Sissoko, we give up midfield control against the top sides. I just don’t want to see that. He’s a poor central midfielder, it’s as simple as that. He defends well because he’s physical but he’s in the bottom 1% in the league in every other aspect of the game

You do post a lot of crock. Did you not see Bergwijn "baby sitting" for Reguilon? You and your anti Sissoko sentiments are wearing thin, especially as other posters have given valid arguments as to Sisisoko's inclusion.

 

[idontgetit]

N'Dombele couldn't adapt to the Premier League last season, and still can't last longer than an hour. Lo Celso is coming back from injury. And we have to manage the squad with the pace of the fixtures this season.

Its not much more than that.

Respectfully, it clearly is more than that. Mourinho wants to use positionally disciplined central midfielders who break up opposition attacks and is willing to sacrifice ball playing ability for that. When you watch any of his old tactical interviews, it's clear he loves that kind of thinking. Hopefully he will give it a go and find it works.

From my personal opinion, which I know isn't much, getting fast service to Kane, Bale and Son is going to be far more productive than getting our fullbacks forward and therefore I'd rather have ball playing midfielders than workhorse midfielders.

 

[John48]

Far from comparing. But in the barcelona that won the entire midfield he had no Sissoko. His greatest defense was possession. Why can't we try something similar with Hojberg, Lo Celso, Ndombele?

Jose never managed Barca.

There are 2 things though that stop Jose looking at something similar with Lo Celso, Hojbjerg & N'Dombele is the fact that Lo Celso & N'Dombele can't replicate the work rate of xavi & iniesta nor can they keep the ball in the way the Barca team did. They were phenomenal at keeping the ball & defending is a lot easier when you don't give the ball away once you have it & their ability to win the ball back when was equally impressive.

 

[Flobadob]

You do post a lot of crock. Did you not see Bergwijn "baby sitting" for Reguilon? You and your anti Sissoko sentiments are wearing thin, especially as other posters have given valid arguments as to Sisisoko's inclusion.

ahhh here we go, I’m anti Sissoko boo hoo. Get a grip man. I think he’s a very hard worker and I like him a lot but I don’t think he’s good enough! Huge difference!

 

[davidmatzdorf]

ahhh here we go, I’m anti Sissoko boo hoo. Get a grip man. I think he’s a very hard worker and I like him a lot but I don’t think he’s good enough! Huge difference!

Flobadob: "Here's my opinion about SIssoko."

Responder 1: "Here are three paragraphs of reasons, supported by tactical analysis, why your opinion is not based on accurate facts."

Flobadob: "But I have my own opinion."

Responder 2: "Here are four paragraphs of reasons why Mourinho opts to play the team he chooses, because of X and Y and Z that might happen if he played the team you want instead, again supported by analysis, evidence and examples."

Flobadob: "I have a right to my opinion."

Responder 3: "Here is a clip of an expert pundit, a former Spurs player, explaining why Sissoko was included in the team and showing, with video clips, the important effect of his role in securing a result."

Flobadob: "Ah here we go, it's all personal. I think what I think. It's my opinion."

This is everything that's wrong with modern debate and discussion. You think "it's my opinion" gets you out of responsibility for thinking, marshalling evidence and formulating an argument.

It doesn't. Your opinion is wrong. Other people have used evidence to demonstrate how and why it is wrong. The appropriate behaviour, when you have set out an opinion and others positively drench you with contrary evidence and analysis, is that you change your opinion. That's what intelligent people do. They change their opinion when facts contradict it.

Not all opinions are created equal. Many of them are wrong.