Dawson - Joins Hull

[Blake Griffin]

I'd like to see Dawson replaced by Micah Richards. Only around 4-5mil. RB CB always liked the way he played. Bale said its was his toughest premier league opponent.

i think bale was just returning the praise after richards said it about him. that said i am a fan of richards, two problems though 1) walker and 2) injuries?

 

[WiganSpur]

No Michael, there is nothing you can do to change the manager's mind.

 

[Donki]

So we have Verts (who will most likely be knakered), Kaboom who I wouldnt rely on and Vlad if Daws is sold without a replacement first.

Yeah Daws, piss off your no longer required lol .

 

[Barry Mead]

Telegraph reporting that Dawson is reluctant to move to Hull

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-in-10m-bid-for-Swansea-Citys-Ben-Davies.html

Great, lets hope he stays, crazy to even think about selling him when Kaboul looks like he's unlikely to get back his pre injury form, while Chiriches is still struggling to look anything like a PL CB and when we have such a dearth of players with any real character, drive, desire or leadership, never mind having to worry about whether Verts can be arsed to play or not

 

[easley91]

I'd be sad to see Daws go. I respect him as a man and a professional. He doesn't want to leave, because he loves this club (been with us for around 10 years and yet there is barely any loyalty in club football anymore) and wants to prove himself to the new boss. He may not be the best, but he has the biggest desire and set of balls to want to fight for his place despite a lot of fans calling for him to be sold. If he goes, it'll be after the first week or two of pre-season as Poch will want to see the squad firsthand in training.

 

[Spursh]

Great, lets hope he stays, crazy to even think about selling him when Kaboul looks like he's unlikely to get back his pre injury form, while Chiriches is still struggling to look anything like a PL CB and when we have such a dearth of players with any real character, drive, desire or leadership, never mind having to worry about whether Verts can be arsed to play or not

I agree regarding our lack of leaders, but ability wise, Dawson isn't good enough IMO and we are right to sell, as long as we bring in a couple of strong defenders to replace him and Kaboul (who'll probably leave too). I think this is why we're looking at Lovren, as he's a natural leader.

And regarding Vlad, yes he had couple of hairy moments, but considering that last season was his first year in English football, often playing in an ever-changing back-line in yet another turbulent campaign for the club, I was very impressed with Chiriches on the whole, and believe he has the qualities to become an excellent modern-day defender.

Vertoghen's attitude is an issue, but hopefully he'll have a defensively sound LB alongside him next season, playing in a well-organised team with clear instructions.

 

[fecka]

Dawson is good enough as a 3rd or 4th CB and he provides a lot of character and leadership both on and off the pitch. I think it would be stupid to sell him for the fee quoted. He would probably be content with his role as well, as long as he gets to stay at Spurs. I'd rather sell Kaboul.

 

[Barry Mead]

I agree regarding our lack of leaders, but ability wise, Dawson isn't good enough IMO and we are right to sell, as long as we bring in a couple of strong defenders to replace him and Kaboul (who'll probably leave too). I think this is why we're looking at Lovren, as he's a natural leader.

And regarding Vlad, yes he had couple of hairy moments, but considering that last season was his first year in English football, often playing in an ever-changing back-line in yet another turbulent campaign for the club, I was very impressed with Chiriches on the whole, and believe he has the qualities to become an excellent modern-day defender.

Vertoghen's attitude is an issue, but hopefully he'll have a defensively sound LB alongside him next season, playing in a well-organised team with clear instructions.

I think everyone of our CB's suffered because of a constant changing line up and I think having no full backs with any kind of clue about how to defend only made it worse, but I still think there's a strong PL CB in Daws. Just give him a consistent partner and two full backs with even a basic clue about defending.
So I don't think Daws is no longer good enough and I'd have him ahead of both Kaboul and Chiriches and for that matter ahead of Verts on his "can't be arsed" days which seemed pretty frequent last season
I was not impressed by Chiriches last season, the odd well timed tackle or defensive moment couldn't take away the fear that he constantly looked an accident waiting to happen and often was. That doesn't mean I would necessarily give up on him, he was hardly given a stable team to step into, but for me he looks a long way off being a regular starter level and so equally I wouldn't be unhappy if we sold him this summer, there are far better CB's than Vlad around
I'm not saying there aren't better defenders that we could get but if we aren't happy about the fee for Lovren would we be happy paying more for better? Maybe they value Lovren at a certain price and won't pay more which is fair enough but if we have a ceiling on prices we pay for CB's then getting two CB's that will be better for us than Daws might prove difficult, especially considering any new player might take a little while to adjust to the team and the PL
I'd far rather keep Daws and Verts, offload Eunice and Vlad, bring in one more CB and add say Richards and Umtiti or Rojo who can give us CB,RB and LB options

 

[Spursh]

I think everyone of our CB's suffered because of a constant changing line up and I think having no full backs with any kind of clue about how to defend only made it worse, but I still think there's a strong PL CB in Daws. Just give him a consistent partner and two full backs with even a basic clue about defending.
So I don't think Daws is no longer good enough and I'd have him ahead of both Kaboul and Chiriches and for that matter ahead of Verts on his "can't be arsed" days which seemed pretty frequent last season
I was not impressed by Chiriches last season, the odd well timed tackle or defensive moment couldn't take away the fear that he constantly looked an accident waiting to happen and often was. That doesn't mean I would necessarily give up on him, he was hardly given a stable team to step into, but for me he looks a long way off being a regular starter level and so equally I wouldn't be unhappy if we sold him this summer, there are far better CB's than Vlad around
I'm not saying there aren't better defenders that we could get but if we aren't happy about the fee for Lovren would we be happy paying more for better? Maybe they value Lovren at a certain price and won't pay more which is fair enough but if we have a ceiling on prices we pay for CB's then getting two CB's that will be better for us than Daws might prove difficult, especially considering any new player might take a little while to adjust to the team and the PL
I'd far rather keep Daws and Verts, offload Eunice and Vlad, bring in one more CB and add say Richards and Umtiti or Rojo who can give us CB,RB and LB options

I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of that Barry.

You say you haven't given up on Vlad, but also say that you are happy to sell him, even considering the circumstances last season and the fact that he's still only 24 (young for a CB).

I suspect Lovren will be too much, but there are still many alternatives out there, some already better than Dawson, others with excellent potential.

Rojo looks a player and Umtiti looks a prospect, but I wouldn't want us to sign Richards. Very injury prone and massively lacking in football intelligence.

Dawson was at his very best with King on one side (World Class defender), and Corluka (an intelligent and defensively sound fullback) on the other. He's never been quick, and in a high-pressing team, he'll struggle further. I appreciate his excellent leadership skills, but quality wise, I don't think he's good or suitable enough (to Poch's tactics).

For example, Mertesacker is around the same age and is even slower than Dawson, and also needs mobile defenders alongside him, but his superb positional sense, composure and awareness means he's a much better centre-back IMO.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Dawson doesn't suit a high line system. Why should we keep him? It makes no sense and completely undermines the system Poch wants to play. He massively declined last season and he's only going to get worse.

 

[DaSpurs]

I meant he was poor at CB (I was at the C1C game vs West Ham and he really was bad). However, he was immense before his injury IN MIDFIELD, and if you look at my previous posts, I would start him next season alongside Paulinho. Of course he deserves as much patience, he just shouldn't play at CB. Nice try though.

Yeah it's just a bit of a double-standard to continue giving Paulinho the excuse of the rough season considering how much time he had to adjust, and then rate other new players poorly in any role considering how much less time they had to adjust. Just doesn't add up my friend.

 

[Barry Mead]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of that Barry.

You say you haven't given up on Vlad, but also say that you are happy to sell him even, even considering the circumstances last season and the fact that he's still only 24 (young for a CB).

I suspect Lovren will be too much, but there are still many alternatives out there, some already better than Dawson, others with excellent potential.

Rojo looks a player and Umtiti looks a prospect, but I wouldn't want us to sign Richards. Very injury prone and massively lacking in football intelligence.

Dawson was at his very best with King on one side (World Class defender), and Corluka (an intelligent and defensively sound fullback) on the other. He's never been quick, and in a high-pressing team, he'll struggle further. I appreciate his excellent leadership skills, but quality wise, I don't think he's good or suitable enough (to Poch's tactics).

For example, Mertesacker is around the same age and is even slower than Dawson, and also needs mobile defenders alongside him, but his superb positional sense, composure and awareness means he's a much better centre-back IMO.

All about opinions Spursh, for me Dawson has always been the player that will provide the physical presence challenging aerially, blocking shots, putting in strong challenges, and we lack that kind of player. Eunice was strong in the air but is struggling now. I don't think there's much wrong with Dawson's positioning or reading either, our trouble is that we haven't had a full back with much defensive nous since Charlie and even Charlie wasn't always playing rb and if Daws has a weakness it's in trying to cover the lack of a full back and be the CB. That's always a tough call. I think we shouldn't be too critical about his time playing with Ledley either because whilst he was great with Ledley he also helped carry us through a lot of time when King was missing and King always benefited from having Naybet,Daws, Woody or Gallas. Daws often ended up with the likes of Rocha, Ant, Davenport, an inexperienced Eunice and Vlad and of course partnered with Gallas having to play on the left. The only time he really struggled was being rushed back from injury when Kaboul had just arrived and was struggling to adapt. Understandable really and would have been a lot easier had he been fully fit and available from the start, other than that having to play LCB because Gallas wouldn't wasn't a role that he liked of fitted well, but at least he accepted it and did his best
As for Chiriches, I think it's more about options, I don't think he got much of a chance but equally he looked a very dangerous player to have at the back-the accident waiting to happen, if we could get better in I'd rather do that than persevere but it's not easy keeping a 4th choice happy, so if not I'd give him time. I just don't see a top CB there that can ultimately become a regular starter least ways not in the PL
As for comparisons I'd take Daws over Mertesacker every day, but again all about opinions
Now Poch's tactics, I didn't notice Soton playing the same kind of high defensive line we played a lot last year, but if he does I think we'll suffer as I don't think defensively it works well in the PL. It might squeeze space for pressing but it leaves any defence prone to balls played through and fast runners to get behind the CB's and also contacts the space when we attack
If Poch does want to go that way then presumably he must be thinking of a whole new defence because none of the current players looked comfortable playing it, it's not just a case of take out Daws

 

[Spursh]

We'll agree to disagree Barry, as it is all about opinions

Although I must say that I doubt many would pick Dawson over Mertesacker (102 caps for Germany)

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Yeah it's just a bit of a double-standard to continue giving Paulinho the excuse of the rough season considering how much time he had to adjust, and then rate other new players poorly in any role considering how much less time they had to adjust. Just doesn't add up my friend.

Capoue has never been a CB so I'm not getting on his back because he was poor in that position- it was to be expected. Capoue impressed me more than Paulinho.

 

[DaSpurs]

Capoue has never been a CB so I'm not getting on his back because he was poor in that position- it was to be expected. Capoue impressed me more than Paulinho.

He actually played there for Toulouse a decent amount the season before he came to us.

I'm not saying I advocate him being a first four option there, just pointing out where patience should be due. He played there three times this past season, so frankly he deserves just as much understanding if not more than a player who played more than 11 times that amount of times in his own natural position.

 

[thinktank]

Although Dawson leaving might be logical - he's unlikely to fit Pochettino's system, he's aging and he'd probably be at best 3rd choice - but the fact that he wants to stay is admirable. He might not be the best player we have or have had but at least he's cares about the club when most of the squad appear ambivalent at best. We're quick to bemoan loyalty when a player angles for a move to another club but when one of ours actually wants to stay and fight for his place everyone wants to kick him out anyway.

It's actually hella inconsiderate.

 

[thinktank]

Dawson doesn't suit a high line system. Why should we keep him? It makes no sense and completely undermines the system Poch wants to play. He massively declined last season and he's only going to get worse.

 

[chinaman]

If Kaboul can get back to 70% of his best form, he is still better than Dawson.

 

[Barry Mead]

He actually played there for Toulouse a decent amount the season before he came to us.

I'm not saying I advocate him being a first four option there, just pointing out where patience should be due. He played there three times this past season, so frankly he deserves just as much understanding if not more than a player who played more than 11 times that amount of times in his own natural position.

Actually he started out as a CB although before he was really a first teamer and he has indeed played CB for Toulouse on a number of occasions when they have had injury issues. That said in his last season at Toulouse he was playing a more advanced midfield role most of the time and finished the league as their second top scorer iirc (although only 7 goals )
I actually think he could be a very decent 5th option at CB, shouldn't really take much notice of a couple of games after being rushed back from injury, in a makeshift defence, with little PL experience at that stage and iirc partnering Vlad in one game when he had only managed a few games as well

 

[DaSpurs]

Actually he started out as a CB although before he was really a first teamer and he has indeed played CB for Toulouse on a number of occasions when they have had injury issues. That said in his last season at Toulouse he was playing a more advanced midfield role most of the time and finished the league as their second top scorer iirc (although only 7 goals )
I actually think he could be a very decent 5th option at CB, shouldn't really take much notice of a couple of games after being rushed back from injury, in a makeshift defence, with little PL experience at that stage and iirc partnering Vlad in one game when he had only managed a few games as well

He also played decently well in the two matches prior (against Sunderland the week before in particular) to our ill-fated hosting of Liverpool. He was simply thoroughly exposed in that match due to our midfield not establishing even a hint of control over the middle third.