Dawson, still rubbish?

[benski]

If Levy can get 10m for him he will

 

[Black]

The spurs finance team is in full force in this thread I see.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Those saying why take the 9/10m when he'll be useful as 4th choice next year (and I agree Gallas won't be viable next year) are ignoring the fact that we have a couple of very competent young lads (like Stewart for example) coming through.

This is how we must operate. Start making our investment in development pay. Even 8m, for a 4th choice CB is astoundingly good business and can be better used elsewhere, meanwhile one of our development CB's will move up the pecking order, meaning we don't waste the time and money spent developing them and hopefully they will either see a few years service, and/or recoup more money for the club if/when sold.

Sentiment is a luxury we can't afford, especially when its 9m quids worth for a 4th choice player.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Dawson, who famously cannot play AVBs system, and is slow, and stupid, and dives in, has done pretty well since being back in the team.

Personally I think his determination makes up for a lot of his footballing shortfalls. However, what do the haters think of his recent form? Any snidey comments welcome.

I love Dawson, I love his passion and love the fact he always gives 100%, but he hoofs the ball far to much, has been injury prone far to much over recent years and can been a liability a way more than I would like.

Personally I would sell Dawson and Gallas, and bring in a better CM. With Kaboul, Vertonghen, Caulker and the new one we will have a mighty back 4.

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

I love Dawson, I love his passion and love the fact he always gives 100%, but he hoofs the ball far to much, has been injury prone far to much over recent years and can been a liability a way more than I would like.

Personally I would sell Dawson and Gallas, and bring in a better CM. With Kaboul, Vertonghen, Caulker and the new one we will have a mighty back 4.

Sell Gallas? Who is buying a 35 year old defender. We would do well to get him off the wage bill for free in Jan; let alone get a transfer fee lol..

 

[DIEHARD]

Still? Still would imply he was rubbish to begin with and he certainly was and is not rubbish. What the fuck.

 

[ultimateloner]

I don't think there is much of a debate if someone gives you 8m+ for a 4th choice player.
The debate is whether Daws is good enough even as 4th choice; the same can apply to anyone of our CBs.
Reason I raise this is because when he/Caulker played we dropped alot of points.
I don't think the style/passion with which he plays matters. Its what appeals to fans and doesn't count towards the results. It's naive to assume that acrobatics are motivational.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Sell Gallas? Who is buying a 35 year old defender. We would do well to get him off the wage bill for free in Jan; let alone get a transfer fee lol..

Sell/release/free up his wages, what ever way he goes he should go. That is not be mean time him, his time is up and has done some good things for us.

I would rather use Gallas's wages on a CM back for the future... Ya know what I mean.

 

[dontcallme]

I'm pretty sure Gallas' contract is up at the end of the season so he'll go on a free.

We have bought a lot of players for £5m plus who simply didn't contribute and we were happy to get rid. Having Dawson as 4th choice is an excellent option to have. I don't want to be forced to play a young player before he's ready just because we get an offer for Dawson.

If Dawson wants to leave then we will listen to offers but in no way should we be encouraging him to leave.

 

[Hitch]

Not a big fan of his but he's infinitely better than Gallas. No doubt of that. Would still look to sell him if Kaboul is available come January though. Given our sell to buy policy the £8-10m that we could make on him could contribute greatly towards bolstering weaker areas of the squad. Daws is arguably our only expendable commodity for January that would command significant interest and a decent fee. Makes full sense to me for us to sell him so long as Kaboul is going to be back at full strength soon (something I'm starting to have doubts about - it's really dragging on).

 

[DIEHARD]

Not a big fan of his but he's infinitely better than Gallas. No doubt of that. Would still look to sell him if Kaboul is available come January though. Given our sell to buy policy the £8-10m that we could make on him could contribute greatly towards bolstering weaker areas of the squad. Daws is arguably our only expendable commodity for January that would command significant interest and a decent fee. Makes full sense to me for us to sell him so long as Kaboul is going to be back at full strength soon (something I'm starting to have doubts about - it's really dragging on).

So next season you would be happy with Caulker/Vertonghen/Kaboom?

I dont get this. Like I say we have some right Levys on here who just wanna sell sell sell but then what happens? Oh yeah thats right we will have to spend the 10m on getting another CB. Three is not sufficient.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Still? Still would imply he was rubbish to begin with and he certainly was and is not rubbish. What the fuck.

Exactly!

 

[Hitch]

So next season you would be happy with Caulker/Vertonghen/Kaboom?

I dont get this. Like I say we have some right Levys on here who just wanna sell sell sell but then what happens? Oh yeah thats right we will have to spend the 10m on getting another CB. Three is not sufficient.

Along with another, yeah. What's so difficult to get about it? I rate those three well above Daws. Gallas would suffice as a fourth choice for the remainder of the season granted (and this is key) that Kaboul is fit to go by Jan 31st. Just don't want to see Gallas higher up the pecking order. After that we can look to bring in a decent young defender for a reasonable fee and lesser wages (it's really not that hard) who'll be willing to make do with scraps for a while. Ideal scenario would be to get in someone with a bit of versatility. That's a key ingredient in back up players that Daws lacks.

A fourth choice centre back who can only play at centre back is unlikely to see much in the way of playing time across a season. Given the money that Daws could generate it'd be a waste to hold onto him as simply a part timer. We are not Man City - we need to sell in order to buy. I think we should be aware of our priorities given that needs are greater elsewhere in the squad.

Besides, though he may have refused to move in the Summer I can't see Daws maintaining that stance for the long term. He's an older established player who will not be content to spend his peak years on the bench.

 

[DIEHARD]

Along with another, yeah. What's so difficult to get about it? I rate those three well above Daws. Gallas would suffice as a fourth choice for the remainder of the season granted (and this is key) that Kaboul is fit to go by Jan 31st. Just don't want to see Gallas higher up the pecking order. After that we can look to bring in a decent young defender for a reasonable fee and lesser wages (it's really not that hard) who'll be willing to make do with scraps for a while. Ideal scenario would be to get in someone with a bit of versatility. That's a key ingredient in back up players that Daws lacks.

A fourth choice centre back who can only play at centre back is unlikely to see much in the way of playing time across a season. Given the money that Daws could generate it'd be a waste to hold onto him as simply a part timer. We are not Man City - we need to sell in order to buy. I think we should be aware of our priorities given that needs are greater elsewhere in the squad.

Besides, though he may have refused to move in the Summer I can't see Daws maintaining that stance for the long term. He's an older established player who will not be content to spend his peak years on the bench.

You dont think another centre back will cost a few quid? So you will only, at best, have a surplus of about 2 or 3m - seriously you would risk that and get someone who may or may not be happy with being a fourth choice CB? Also who says that we wont get injuries? Who says that the CB will be of the calibre of Dawson?

Wasnt it the start of the seaosn that the majority wanted Dawsons old suggesting that we will be fine with four? Thank Fuck we didnt listen to you lot cos at present we have one injured CB, one young CB, one OAP, one CB come left back because we have a LB injured.

The repercussions of selling someone like Daws is pretty, as AVB would put it, immense and not in a good way. Im sorry but there is barely any financial benefit. No point in raising cash by reducing the quality of one department just to increase the quality in another.

 

[Yid-ol]

I like Dawson, he is a good player and will always put in 110%, at the moment our second best CB! but when Kaboul and Verts are playing CB, he will be on the bench i fell. Glad he didnt move though.

As for snidey comments, i dont think we will sign him

 

[Hitch]

You dont think another centre back will cost a few quid? So you will only, at best, have a surplus of about 2 or 3m - seriously you would risk that and get someone who may or may not be happy with being a fourth choice CB? Also who says that we wont get injuries? Who says that the CB will be of the calibre of Dawson?

Wasnt it the start of the seaosn that the majority wanted Dawsons old suggesting that we will be fine with four? Thank Fuck we didnt listen to you lot cos at present we have one injured CB, one young CB, one OAP, one CB come left back because we have a LB injured.

The repercussions of selling someone like Daws is pretty, as AVB would put it, immense and not in a good way. Im sorry but there is barely any financial benefit. No point in raising cash by reducing the quality of one department just to increase the quality in another.

You got sand in your vagina or something? What's with the irate tone? And why are you talking to me as though I'm an ambassador for some sort of anti-Dawson collective? I don't know what the majority think nor do I care. I haven't even read through this thread. I merely put an opinion forward. It was a general comment and a reply to no one.

Regarding the points you make, none come as revelation to me. What happens if we sustain simultaneous injuries to three of four central defenders? Well yeah that'd be shitty, but what happens if Adebayor and Defoe both get injured, or Bale and Lennon? Who comes in for them? Fact is we have five central defenders atm while we have only two strikers, two senior wingers, and next to nothing in the way of creativity in midfield outside of Dembele. If we can get some money on Dawson that can go towards curing those problems then I'd gladly take it. I certainly know where my priorities in the coming window would lie.

As to having to eventually spend on another defender, yes, that's the way of things. You seem to have entirely ignored my point regarding versatility though. A player able to cover multiple positions would be far more valuable to us as a squad player than Dawson would be. This is why players like Vertonghen and Naughton are ideal for our needs. If they're young with a potentially higher ceiling than Daws then that'd be even better. I'd also be looking at players with greater technique. That's my always been my biggest issue with Dawson (hope that doesn't upset you). The wage factor also shouldn't be discounted.

 

[Pinto]

You dont think another centre back will cost a few quid? So you will only, at best, have a surplus of about 2 or 3m - seriously you would risk that and get someone who may or may not be happy with being a fourth choice CB? Also who says that we wont get injuries? Who says that the CB will be of the calibre of Dawson?

Wasnt it the start of the seaosn that the majority wanted Dawsons old suggesting that we will be fine with four? Thank Fuck we didnt listen to you lot cos at present we have one injured CB, one young CB, one OAP, one CB come left back because we have a LB injured.

The repercussions of selling someone like Daws is pretty, as AVB would put it, immense and not in a good way. Im sorry but there is barely any financial benefit. No point in raising cash by reducing the quality of one department just to increase the quality in another.

While I tend to agree with you that selling for a few million in profit seems like a serious risk I would consider it as a favor to Dawson if he wants to move on and play quality minutes. He never complained, was a great servant for the club and deserves the chance to play week in and week out. We can't give him first team minutes anymore. At best he would play cup games and fill in for major injuries.

Also I agree it will be much tougher to get a quality player in than most on here think if we have to put in 5-10 million and get a young player (with resale value for all you Levyites out there) we could maybe find ourselves another Kaboul or Caulker who could with a little coaching and seasoning like Caulker had get a quality player for the future and not look back to our past with Dawson??

Anyway, I see your point and it should be taken with a lot of consideration but we can't be afraid to fail in the transfer market, we have talent at CB and looking for future talent should be something we are doing now so why not try and set ourselves up for the future instead of worry about a 3rd or 4th choice CB at best? If we were selling a starting 11 player I would be worried and always find those players very very difficult to replace, Modric, Carrick, Berbatov all come to mind. Even with the huge fees we received for those players we had a very difficult time trying to bring in starters to replace them but Dawson is not that case and we should cash in for as much as possible, as long as it is over 6 to 7 million of course.

 

[Legend10]

Those saying why take the 9/10m when he'll be useful as 4th choice next year (and I agree Gallas won't be viable next year) are ignoring the fact that we have a couple of very competent young lads (like Stewart for example) coming through.

This is how we must operate. Start making our investment in development pay. Even 8m, for a 4th choice CB is astoundingly good business and can be better used elsewhere, meanwhile one of our development CB's will move up the pecking order, meaning we don't waste the time and money spent developing them and hopefully they will either see a few years service, and/or recoup more money for the club if/when sold.

Sentiment is a luxury we can't afford, especially when its 9m quids worth for a 4th choice player.

It's nothing to do with sentiment, we couldn't go in to a season hopefully with a European campaign with only 3 centre backs with experience. if the development players are good enough they will come through relegating Dawson down the pecking oreder anyway and that would be the right time to sell.

 

[mpickard2087]

So next season you would be happy with Caulker/Vertonghen/Kaboom?

I dont get this. Like I say we have some right Levys on here who just wanna sell sell sell but then what happens? Oh yeah thats right we will have to spend the 10m on getting another CB. Three is not sufficient.

This is where a good scouting network comes in. Dawson is 4th/5th choice and approaching 30, his value will only decrease from now on. If we get say £9m for him and then go and get a younger player, someone capable of coming in and replacing Daws as a back up player, for say £2-3m, with the potential to develop even further so a year or so down the line they are fighting to be first choice. You can then hopefully get years of service out of this player or sell at a profit eventually and the whole cycle goes again.

What it takes though is the ability to spot these unheralded players before they hit the big time, something the club is pretty useless at in general.

 

[DIEHARD]

Did you get sand in your vagina or something? What's with the irate tone? And why are you talking to me as though I'm an ambassador for some sort of anti-Dawson collective? I don't know what the majority think nor do I care. I haven't even read through this thread. I merely put an opinion forward. It was a general comment and a reply to no one.

Regarding the points you make, none come as revelation to me. What happens if we sustain simultaneous injuries to three of four central defenders? Well yeah that'd be shitty, but what happens if Adebayor and Defoe both get injured, or Bale and Lennon? Who comes in for them? Fact is we have five central defenders atm while we have only two strikers, two senior wingers, and next to nothing in the way of creativity in midfield outside of Dembele. If we can get some money on Dawson that can go towards curing those problems then I'd gladly take it. I certainly know where my priorities in the coming window would lie.

As to having to eventually spend on another defender, yes, that's the way of things. You seem to have entirely ignored my point regarding versatility though. A player able to cover multiple positions would be far more valuable to us as a squad player than Dawson would be. This is why players like Vertonghen and Naughton are ideal for our needs. If they're young with a potentially higher potential ceiling than Daws then that'd be even better. I'd also be looking at players with greater technique. That's my always been one of my biggest issues with Dawson (hope that doesn't upset you). The wage factor also shouldn't be discounted.

Im not irate at you so apologies if you think that - youre reading it in the wrong tone. I wish I did have a vagina - only way ill get some lately...

What I am irate at, and certainly not aimed at you but just a general point, is the notion that "we get an offer of 10m lets sell". Not many have put in a genuine option as a replacement for Dawson or even took into account the issues in our defence in terms of injuries, career span of certain defenders or the make up of our defence. Ultimately to have someone of the calibre of Dawson who is (I am assuming) happy at bein back up - we shouldnt be looking a gift horse in the mouth and appreciate someone of his calibre.

You argue that we need to sell to spend (which I dont think we need to by the way im sure there is cash available) then what does happen next summer? Where do we find a suitable fourth choice defender who is as good as Dawson - and for 10m? I agree we need to buy some creativity but im just a bit fed up of us (over the years) where we have sold a player and strengthened somewhere else but forgotten about the position that the sold player vacated.

You bring the point about wages - Gallas literally give him away I would say - im sure he is on a tonne more than Dawson is (although Dawsons contract runs longer he has value to us)

Do I like Dawson? Yeah as I rate him. Do I have a fetish for him? fuck no but I appreciate that against the likes of West Ham and Stoke and the Newcastles of this world he can add significant value and could win us 6-9 additional points a season. The performance against West Spam and the way he handled Carroll was testament to that because someone like Gallas would struggle (He struggled against Stoke last season).