Disappointment

Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
67
#41
It really saddens me to see some of the abuse robbie keane gets on here. He has been pivotal for us for the last few years, player of the year, top scorer etc. It was only a while back that he was outstanding against Chelsea too. I think the problem lies with Defoe and Keane not being able to play together. I like Defoe, I think he can play well with Berbatov but yesterday he too was useless, especially at beating the offside trap. We have become incredibly reliant on Berbatov which is something that needs addressing come the summer.

On yesterday's game, well it was disappointing but hardly suprising. This team will come good with some tweaking and BMJ will be the man to lead it
 

Ali

New Member
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May 16, 2004
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468
#42
By the way, glad to see I have finally been recognised as a regular poster and have been promoted from Paolo Tramezzani to Vinny Samways!
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
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935
#43
question to the "we want jol out" fanclub.

if we get rid of him, who can we REALISTICALLY get in and do a job that BMJ supposedly cannot do????

im intruged.
I'll pay good money to get a sensible answer on this. Mourinho is the dickheads choice so far, which is pathetic. I would double the money for a good rational of why a replacement manager will be a fillip for success.

Has no one learnt anything from the last 15 years?
 

mkkid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
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1,924
#44
I listened to Graham Roberts on Talksport this a.m.

I think he summed it up when he said something along the lines of ...

Shaking hands and that in the tunnel, not the way we used to etc.
We used to kick lumps out of each other on the pitch then go and have a drink afterwards.

Needed someone "to put a foot in" a ballwinner.

Summed it up for me. When Mido got that equaliser it rocked Arsenal a bit and the fans had doubts too, thats when we should have went for it, too long we have been
a soft touch against the big clubs, not that I want to see Bolton style footy at WHL but too many Jessies dont make for trophies.
You can have all the best wingers in the world but if no one is winning the ball for them and feeding them , well.
In the past we had Roberts,Miller,Perryman today we have Ghaly,zokara,Jenas,lee,keane Defoe is it a wonder why we dont win big games anymore!
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
883
#45
I think Rob has every right to vent his frustrations,
It's been toooo long in the making of a successful spurs side
so I can empathise with him as well as questioing the set up
behind the scenes,ticket office,Levy ,transfersetc why not ? That's
worth a debate on it's own.

We are in the court of pessimism V optimism at the mo,
but our trial is not over yet and the fate/destiny of our
campaign has not reached It's conclusion.

From what you get from the top four managers are different
contrasting styles of tactical systems,we are always going to compare Jol with them cos at the mo they're more successful,we don't usually talk about other managers, do we ? AS Boaman once said we all want to be a (spurs)
manager.We all want the bragging rights,When ? Who knows ? All empires as above have their fall,christy I hope
Its in our lifetme though.

We will get our revenge on them,it could be this season !!
 

Green Samot

Ever so slightly annoyed
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
718
#46
I think the main problem was having no Berbatov, King or Lennon. When Berbatov went off in the first leg we were instantly a poorer team.

Personally I wouldn't make some of the tactical decisions that Jol has, but I have faith that he knows what he's doing and that I'm just an armchair fan and know sod all.
 

Parmenio

New Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
243
#47
I rarely disagreed with Jol's team choices this year. While lots of people moan in hindsight, much of the talk assumes that everyone is fully fit, and the minute they are back from injuries they are instantly 100%.

This just isn't true!

We had a really large amount of injuries this year, I can't remember the last time we fielded what I would call our top 11, or even our best midfield 4 (possibly against southend, but that was Jenas' first game back).

So Jol options for team selection have been loads more limited than people seem to think, and he has mostly chosen the strongest team available to him at the time.

Last night he brought on two players, and a few mintues later one of them scored after a good passage of play. This is managers effecting games midflight, what more do you expect? What other options were there? People will say Start with Mido ... but was he fit to start? I have my doubts he'd have lasted 90 minutes, never mind the whole of extra time.

Again hindsight makes things a lot easier. You can say stuff like... well that didn't work they should have tried something different. But how do you know in advance that some things wont work? You don't always. Even with Keane and Defoe, there are occasions where they have combined well when we have provided them with enough service. However we lost the midfield battle lastnight, and they hardly got the ball all game ... Defoe had what? One shot?
 

Rob

The Boss
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Thread starter #48
Wow Rob, I really can't believe that you would write such a negative article.
I surprised myself as well. We've lost games before, we've been knocked out of cups. This just feels different somehow. I've been hurt, angry and upset but this time it feels worse.

Last season, the lasagne-gate scandal was awful but we were unlucky and the club was moving forward so it wasn't that bad.

I've always had faith in Levy, Jol and Comolli to do the best for the club but with the joke that is the TO, the statements by Comolli that we don't need a left midfielder, the stupidly high ticket prices (Watford is a Cat B game apparently) and the poor performances on the pitch it's all adding up to finally make me question whether the faith we have is misplaced.

I still don't think so, I think we will come through this. We'll have a bloody good go at winning a cup, we'll get into the UEFA via the league again and we'll improve during the summer but whilst my faith isn't gone, it is shaken somewhat by the recent developements on and off the pitch.
 
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
77
#49
I surprised myself as well. We've lost games before, we've been knocked out of cups. This just feels different somehow. I've been hurt, angry and upset but this time it feels worse.

Last season, the lasagne-gate scandal was awful but we were unlucky and the club was moving forward so it wasn't that bad.

I've always had faith in Levy, Jol and Comolli to do the best for the club but with the joke that is the TO, the statements by Comolli that we don't need a left midfielder, the stupidly high ticket prices (Watford is a Cat B game apparently) and the poor performances on the pitch it's all adding up to finally make me question whether the faith we have is misplaced.

I still don't think so, I think we will come through this. We'll have a bloody good go at winning a cup, we'll get into the UEFA via the league again and we'll improve during the summer but whilst my faith isn't gone, it is shaken somewhat by the recent developements on and off the pitch.
I know where your coming from, I think its compounded by the fact i felt humiliated when faced with gooner mates claiming their kids/reserves beat us - this with the fact they pipped us to 4th last season just rubs salt in the wounds. we all thought we'd caught up with them, but maybe the realisation that they are still better has hit us a bit hard.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
682
#50
Defoe no better than Bobby Zamora ? Are you sure ? I'm as dissapointed as the next man this morning but they key to your article was in 3 words King, Berbatov and Lennon ! Mainly our captain and our best player. The season is far from over, even though last nights result is still stuck in my throat !
Exactly. Our 3 best players were missing and nobody on sky seemed to mention that last night. We can't cope without these three against the best sides. It may not have been full strength arsenal but enough of their first team players played important, substantial roles over the 2 legs. We've got to learn how to keep possession without Berbatov playing. He's become so fundamental to our attacking play that we looked lost without him. Also, too often we don't have enough players in the box to get on the end of crosses. There were 1 or 2 instances early on last night where we did, which seemed to bode well at the time. However, this attacking mentality seemed to go out of the window pretty quickly. I don't know whether it was a question of the wrong mentality or simply that we couldn't get enough of the ball to create anything worthwhile. I suspect it was the latter mixed with an element of caution and fear which seems to be evident in most of our away performances.
 

barry

Poch love
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
3,054
#51
I love Spurs, and I was proud of the players last night. They gave it their all, and came close to doing the improbable without our 3 best players.
I don't understand how everyone can get on Ghaly's back. He seemed to be our most creative player, and is fast becoming my favourite Spurs player.
The only thing I agree with on Rob's post is the thing about Robbo. We need a new keeper to compete with Robbo. A good keeper could save us alot of points. It's one of, if not, the most important positions on the field. Robbo this season has been shit. I would say he's near the worst keeper in the league at the mo. He's fat, he lets in too many goals he should save. He's more often than not rooted to his line, he can't command his area. I don't know what's happened to him. I love the guy because of his loyalty to the club, and i regret that I can't show him the same loyalty, but Spurs has to be no.1.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
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May 5, 2005
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17,865
#53
I'm surprised at you Rob, I wouldn't expect such a downbeat article from you. Here's hoping it's just the hangover from last night.

I thought you were pretty harsh on, well, everyone!

Rocha hasn't had near enough time or made near enough mistakes to start comparing him to Vega. Even if he was to turn out to be shite it would be completely different since Vega was bought to be first-choice while Rocha will be behind King and Dawson in the pecking order when everyone is fit.

Jenas didn't go missing last night, at least I don't think so. He didn't do anything great but he kept the ball and tried to get forward.

Zokora had one of his better games for us last night, and he put in some excellent tackles! I'm amazed by what you said, don't you remember the 5vs1 moment when we were pressing and only Zokora was left to defend against 5 Arse attackers, yet he won the ball? When we had Huddlestone deep with Zokora and Jenas pressing in front of him at the end of normal time, we finally looked like we could compete.

Robbo, shocking, yes, completely agree. Gutted to have to do so.

I think if last night/this season has shown one thing, it's that physical pace and power have become necessities in the Premiership. Defoe and Keane were simply outmuscled for two hours and the only player to make any impact up front was Mido. Zokora and Jenas were doing ok for much of last night, Arsenal had been reduced to nothing chances for much of the game until we tired.

Sure, there is a place for small players like Lennon when they have an obviously exceptional talent, but I honestly think the days of players like Keane and Defoe coming top of the goalscoring charts have gone.

Who would most people say has been the best recruitment from the summer? I think most would say it's between Berbatov and Chimbonda. And what do they both have? Physical power, allied with a good turn of speed. Obviously they both have good skill on the ball as well which is what makes them exceptional players, but I am truly fed up of watching Spurs get outmuscled and outpaced in games.

If radical changes are really called for, then sell Keane and Defoe in the summer and buy Dean Ashton or Darren Bent, and have three strikers competing for two places. Get a powerful left-sided midfield player (he doesn't have to be a winger) like Barnes or Babel. Push the boat out to get Heinze on the left.

I don't necessarily think these changes are vital, I think one of Keane or Defoe can still do a job, but last night, watching Wenger's collection of Maasai Warriors bully our team around and cut us apart at times with their pace, made me think it might be time to pursue a somewhat tougher policy when buying players for Spurs.
 

ziggy

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Joined
Dec 23, 2003
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3,960
#54
Suppose it IS difficult to recruite top class players in this window for the positions we need, and we don't want to buy just anyone for the sake of it, but the LHS has been a problem for some time now as everybody (except those that count apparently) knows.

I just get frustrated that we don't seem to have anyone in midfield who can make that killer pass, it's all punt and hope. That means we need to go wide to supply the ball to the strikers but teams can suss a one sided wing attack out pretty easily so were left hoping for a bit of luck rather than outright creativity.

Talking of punt and hope, I also don't understand why Robbo does that, especially when we've 2 littlun's up front. It's like saying to the opposition "here have the ball back". Robbo lack of command in his area seems to have stemmed from the World Cup, where he was decidedly dodgy on crosses. That seemed to affect his game and he's still struggling to get it together IMO.

Having said all of that I still believe....................

Just wish we'd hurry up and get the team we all want.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
955
#55
Rob, a few hours ago, I was with you all the way. what's worrying is, given time to "get my head straight" I still agree with a lot of your points. Where are we going? Who calls the transfer deals? Why are we so negative with tactics, having not learned from previous outings? When does work in progress become finished team? - i'm getting too old, and may not live long enough to see it. What happens to the management team if we don't qualify for Europe next season? How good are the coaching staff?
So many doubts - I hope they are unfounded.
 

greaves

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
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4,074
#56
high balls and wide men

I take the point about Robinson kicking high balls to small strikers but Arsenal's defence is suspect (see Bolton), one miscontrol and our low-centre-of- gravity players are in. I think a lot of the comments are overly negative and we suffered greatly from not having Lennon. I don't think we need two wide men either - as has been said before on this site (and by Jol?), it leaves too many gaps. Zokora needs a season (like Vieira). Look on the bright side: Arsenal will be beaten in the final and collect injuries (especially at Bolton). Whinger will complain that his squad is too small and too young. On the last day of the season they will be afflicted by a virus or something and we will beat them to fourth spot. Dream. I dare you. Audere est facere.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
935
#57
Down down down

Hate to say it, but this team doesn;t look ready to beat anyone with any class whilst without Berbs. We will lose against ManU.

Zok is NOT a carrick replacement, not from what I've seen. his bursting runs forward are nice, but they usually come against a pack of stick figures anyway and are few and far between against tough opposition. And he must have turned the ball directly to the opposition 4 times in the last 20 minutes.

Defoe appears off form again, and without Berbs looks lost. even with Mido playing up front, to pull defenders, he appeared no less out of position and baffled.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
16,827
#58
Here's a thought!
Suppose last nights game was the first leg, we'd have come away with a 1-1 draw and we would be crowing about it!

We'd have been saying that we were without King, Berbs and Lennon and we were still unbeaten at their ground and don't fall for the rubbish about the kids, they soon took them off when they realised they weren't going to score with them on.

They had the advantage and it went their way that's all.

Keep the faith
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
955
#60
Here's a thought!
Suppose last nights game was the first leg, we'd have come away with a 1-1 draw and we would be crowing about it!

We'd have been saying that we were without King, Berbs and Lennon and we were still unbeaten at their ground and don't fall for the rubbish about the kids, they soon took them off when they realised they weren't going to score with them on.

They had the advantage and it went their way that's all.

Keep the faith
What a great way of looking at it. Nearly cheered me up.
 
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