Do we need a youth academy?

[hellava_tough]

Just thought I'd bosh together a quick thread before I leave work.

I was thinking the other day that our youth academy hasn't produced a first team player for Spurs in a long time. I think the last one was The King (O'Hara was nicked from the Goons).

Anyway, I believe this is the same of most of the top 6 teams.

With this in mind, do we (or any other big club) actually need a youth academy? Wouldn't spending the money on our scouting system be more cost-effective?

I suppose it boils down to how expensive the academy is to run. If the cost is relatively minimal, then we may as well keep the academy. Also, I think I'm right in saying, the academy does a lot of work in the local community, which is always a good thing!

Anyhow, what do you Lads and Ladies think?

 

[juande.is.a.yido]

Gotta keep a youth academy IMO. How do we know the next King is not on his way from our academy. We close the academy, lose the players and they sign for a team with an academy. Plus we would be seriously frowned upon by the FA if we stopped doing all the work within the community.

 

[hellava_tough]

So, 1-0 to the Academy, but it's still early doors

 

[DC_Boy]

good question HT - we're hearing a lot about Pekhart Rose Troy AH etc - if anyone makes it then the Academy is vincdicated probably - but if none do mmmm

tho in a sense even at academy level we're poaching quite often rather than developing local yoof

 

[hellava_tough]

Gotta keep a youth academy IMO. How do we know the next King is not on his way from our academy. We close the academy, lose the players and they sign for a team with an academy. Plus we would be seriously frowned upon by the FA if we stopped doing all the work within the community.

Well, we could still scout and buy young players when they're 16 or 17 years old. In fact, that's what most of the big clubs do.

Take the Goons, for example. For all the press-wankery that's bestowed upon them for having a great youth set-up, they haven't produced a first-teamer from their academy in ages.

 

[hellava_tough]

good question HT - we're hearing a lot about Pekhart Rose Troy AH etc - if anyone makes it then the Academy is vincdicated probably - but if none do mmmm

tho in a sense even at academy level we're poaching quite often rather than developing local yoof

Spot on DC

Would you count the players that you've listed as products of the academy or products of our scouting system? I'd go with the latter (as you've alluded to in the second part of your reply).

I think it's all down to the vast amounts of cash in football (esp. the Premiership) nowadays. Put simply, teams don't need to nurture the youth; they can go out and buy established players!

 

[Sbix]

We still need an academy! with the new uefa rules of homegrown players .. we wouldn't be able to play in europe, without players registered from our own lines..

 

[hellava_tough]

We still need an academy! with the new uefa rules of homegrown players .. we wouldn't be able to play in europe, without players registered from our own lines..

What are the new rules Sbix?

N.B I've been living on Mars recently - weather's good, but you can't get a beer for love nor money!

 

[DC_Boy]

Spot on DC

Would you count the players that you've listed as products of the academy or products of our scouting system? I'd go with the latter (as you've alluded to in the second part of your reply).

I think it's all down to the vast amounts of cash in football (esp. the Premiership) nowadays. Put simply, teams don't need to nurture the youth; they can go out and buy established players!

Hard to say HT - I guess in the end what matters is that players too young for reserve teams have to have somewhere to develop their talents.

You could ask the question - do we need a reserve team - and perhaps that's a harder question to answer

Me I'm all for reserve teams as I'm not too fond of the loans system - but loans seem to be seen as the way to go - so then how useful is reserve team football?

 

[roons]

99% of the boys at the acadamy will be there just to get one boy through - if we have a promising Striker he needs to have a team around him- even at the age of 13 the coaches know most of the kids will not make it and there is only a small chance that the "one" will get through

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Good thread, good topic, but i think the Academy is essential not only for discovering and developing talent but also to give local kids the opportunity to be discovered or developed. I understand what you're saying about the poaching thing but the acadmey works on lots of levels, not just the team listed on the site and the games they get - the academy must have hundreds of young hopefuls try out each year and, even though only a few might make it into the actual academy proper, without those sessions we would miss out.

Equally, and i'm not knocking other local teams, but Spurs training facilities and coaching staff will likely put Orient and others in the shade and, whilst these same kids might well get their chance at another club, to be poached when a scout spots them, it wouldn't guarantee the same level of both training and investment that we could offer the most promising talent.

It does bring up a valid question that crossed my mind the other day though - Reserves - has it now reached a point where the reserves are more our old-age-academy, rather than the second string side? There is such a massive chasm now between the reserves and the first team, even if a player does manage to stick around long enough to come of age and earn a fulltime contract, he steps into a reserve league that's actually, from what i've seen, less competitive than the academy :lol:

I wonder also, whens the cut off age that means a player has been poached and not bought into the academy and nurtured? I mean, there's this Palace kid - he's 15 and will go into our academy, right? I don't see him stepping straight into the ressies at that age, so does he then, by default become our academy player, or does he have to be younger when he joins us to qualify?

We need to concentrate on pushing both the reserves and the academy up to the proverbial next level, then we might see more players having longer careers with one club, instead of reaching 14 or 15 and being swiped by rich clubs.

 

[cnyy12]

99% of the boys at the acadamy will be there just to get one boy through - if we have a promising Striker he needs to have a team around him- even at the age of 13 the coaches know most of the kids will not make it and there is only a small chance that the "one" will get through

I'm skeptical of this. It's been alleged in a bunch of places that one of the problems with the English academies is that their are too many matches, and not enough just learning to feel the ball and getting skills.

If you are having matches in an organized fashion, your primary goal will be to win. It doesn't matter what any coaches say or what any players say, this will end up being the case because of competitive drive and the need for immediate results. If we had them playing in less matches in less organized league systems than perhaps their would be some more creativity shining through. Until then, we will have to settle for creating strikers who are big, slow and mediocre or small and inconsistent, Central midfielders who run a lot without any shining qualities, the typical 'no-nonsense' defender and some crap goalies.

 

[chrissivad]

The last person to come through our Academy is Ohara. He trained as a school boy with the scum, but we put him through our own Academy. The same is happening with the likes or Peckhart.

Just now the accademy seem to be doing well. Going to cup comps in Europe, wining the last one. Think we got to the finals of the one before? cant realy remeber though.

if we haven't already, maybe it could be a good idea to link in with schools in the area to try and find the best tallent and bring them through.

 

[michaelden]

keep the academy, it's where local and foreign youngsters learn

 

[Sbix]

What are the new rules Sbix?

N.B I've been living on Mars recently - weather's good, but you can't get a beer for love nor money!

Life without beer? Impossible!

Well. Not completely sure.. just read the articles about it ... will try to find them...

 

[Sbix]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2005/02/04/sfnbos04.xml

There's for all marsians among us..:razz:

 

[hodspurs]

theres nothing better than seeing a young (spurs loving would be even better) player come through the ranks.its just a shame it does not happen as much as we would like,but i expect most other clubs feel the same.so for me you have to have the academy,you never know when you might get the next hoddle,king or campbell(yes i know but he was a great player to see come through)

 

[yanno]

UEFA proposals

2006-2007 season
Squad size for European competitions must be limited to 25. Of the 25 players, two players, aged between 15 and 21, must have been developed in a club's academy, while two others from the 15 to 21 age group can be purchased from a club in a league of the same national association.

2007-2008 season
The number of home-grown players to rise to six: three from each 15 to 21 category.

2008-2009 season
The number of home-grown players to rise to eight: four from each category.
---------------------


I'm convinced this is one reason why we've been aggressively buying young talent within our "national association" - ie the English leagues.


Gunter, Rose, Parrett, Bostock (if it happens) - would all count as homegrown.

The likes of Bale, Lennon & Huddlestone would count as purchased from the "same national association".

They would complement King & O'Hara as players who did come through our Academy.

Clubs like l'arse - with their emphasis on non-British youngsters - will hopefully be screwed.

 

[gibbs131]

I would rather us have feeder teams in lower divs across Europe. What is the deal with Feeder teams. Is there a cap?

 

[thejames]

For more interesting reading track down the Meltdown Report on the PFA site. I can't link it at the moment because I'm at work, and there are 'flash' issues.

The same could be said of the Ladies team. It's all part of the football club.

As it happens, our academy side is damn strong at the moment. The next couple of years should be very interesting indeed...