Does carl still think wipey is world class ?

[chrissivad]

south korea with no disrespect....need i go on.

yeah he played for psv..yeh THEY got to the semis..they didnt rate him enough to keep him though did they?

Have we sold players that we wanted to keep? and the first part is just stupid.

Well, thanks for that... :|

I disagree, despite one average game - notice i say average, not poor - i think he's done more than enough to earn his place and will continue to provide very capable, very solid cover back there.

Im with you RSS, but he has had more than one average game of late, and i think he will be off when Bale is back or when we get a new LB. Just have the feeling Ramos isn't as big a fan of Lee than some of us are.

But for mee, Lee is good enough to play LB for us. Not LWB or LM, LW like some people are trying to judge his possition on.

 

[johno]

lee's a solid, decent defender who does his job well and efficiently, but one of the top 3 left backs in the world? really? do me a favour. he's nowhere near the level of patrice evra or cashley cole, let alone all the other LBs there are around. as much as i hate to say it, clichy looks a fantastic young LB as well.

if he's one of the top 3 in the world, PSV would not have let him go, we would not have been willing to flog him to roma, and quite frankly he would be playing at a far far far better club then us right now.

as i said, decent player, thats it. let's not get above our stations here and get carried away. we have two world class players at our club, ledley and berbs, certainly not wipey.

a world class LB would be good going forward, whether people like it or not.

 

[Stoof]

Dimitar Berbatov is a shit left back.

He's always out of position.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

south korea with no disrespect....need i go on.

yeah he played for psv..yeh THEY got to the semis..they didnt rate him enough to keep him though did they?

the reason we bought him was because of his show's for PSV - at the time he was considered one of the best LB's in the dutch league and we weren't the only ones corting him. If he was that poor, would Roma be after him? No.

He's having a dip in form amongst a team that has had a dip in form - we're getting back up to full pace now, but Lee has had to play game after game, without any hope of a rest as there isn't another LB ready to step up - why do you think O'Hara dropped back there against Fulham late on? Because Lee is knackered. Give the guy a break, eh? Soon as BAE or Bale are back then yeah, they'll get games and that will also benefit wee Wipey - he'll get a chance to put his feet up for more than ten minutes and will come back into the side firing on all cylinders :up:

 

[dannythomas]

DT (and yeah, you're him, like i'm a Rock Superstar (sorry to shatter any illusions you guys may have had, but that was said in a sarcastic way)), change the title of the thread please - i thought this was a sensible thread with actual reasons of why you don't rate Lee, despite him being astoundingly good at reading the play, one of the most effective light-weight LB's i've seen who actually uses his head when defending, and actually defends, unlike BAE and Bale, who tend to get forward and get caught out on the break. Lee is pretty consistent too, considering how little cover he's been afforded this season, what with injuries to both of them mentioned above.

Change the title to "Lee's crossing is average, despite being better than Chimbondas, but i don't like him so i'm going to pick the tiniest gripe after one game and make a thread about it - discuss" and maybe we can clear up the confusion :up:

bye :hello:

I would agree with you if :

1. The assessment of Lee was based on the Fulham game only. It was not. It was based on this season and before as a whole.

2. Lee's crossing is average. It is not. It is dreadful. If it was average that would be ok.

As for the title to this thread I was questioning Carl who had stated that YP is one of the best 3 full backs in the world. IMO he is nowhere near that accolade. I am not saying we should offload him, he is fine as a squad player.

 

[camaj]

Yesterday, I was watching the game and thinking, why the hell do we keep playing Lee, as I have more and more in recent games. His crossing is woeful, sunday league players can put in a better ball. No exaggeration. As a professional footballer you would expect some degree of kicking acuracy. Ok, so he's a defender but if he's going to come forward he needs to do something with it. If he can't cross he needs to learn and if he can't learn he needs to pass it to a midfielder. As it stands every attack that ends up with him is essentially wasted. It's costing us goals essentially.

Defensively he's not that great either. He doesn't tackle, but rarely needs to, but he gets turned far too easily

 

[Flatters]

Defensively he's not that great either.

:rofl:

 

[Yorkshireyiddo]

I wouldn't say he was world class. He is definatley solid in defence and enthusiastic going forward. A good squad player definitely.

 

[alamo]

Bring back Justin Edinburgh :roll:

 

[Kendall]

Dimitar Berbatov is a shit left back.

He's always out of position.

I'm with you mate, Berbatov's tackling is SHIT, in this day and age a £10m+ player needs to be an all singing, all dancing, multi-positional player.

And another thing, when was the last time you saw Robbie Keane make a save from a shot outside the area? he's just not good enough.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I would agree with you if :

1. The assessment of Lee was based on the Fulham game only. It was not. It was based on this season and before as a whole.

2. Lee's crossing is average. It is not. It is dreadful. If it was average that would be ok.

As for the title to this thread I was questioning Carl who had stated that YP is one of the best 3 full backs in the world. IMO he is nowhere near that accolade. I am not saying we should offload him, he is fine as a squad player.

well, would you say it's more vital for a winger or full back to be able to cross? Lennon couldn't hit a barn from 10 yards with his crosses, though he's improved marginally over the period of the season - he's in a position where, for two seasons, we've had to put up with his lack of crossing ability, but we did it with our mouths shut because of the potential he's got. Lee has already shown his potential, playing in the World Cup at a higher level than most of our players, played in the CL, which is also more than most of out players have done, and has provided unswerving service, being part of one of the meanest defences for two years on the trot.

He's done enough for me and his current slump will not change my opinion that all he needs is a rest :shrug:

 

[Bingy]

Zackly.

Ju eff hit the nail on the Hid mes amis! We are 'getting there', slowly but surely....but 08/09 would appear to be our best chance to 'excel' in the EPL. Look up....The Yids are flying high COYS:hello:

 

[hughy]

Facking hell. I've mentioned a number of times around here that YPL is no better than average, and been almost fucking raped about it.


Maybe the reason we're getting Gunter in.

 

[Lanh]

One thing that this thread shows is that a lot of people don't know what they're talking about to be perfectly blunt.

To say that he is no better than an average squad player is just utterly ridiculous.

Time and time again, in match after match, he stops the crosses hitting the area, yesterday was no different, every single time he was left one on one with an attacker he either won the ball or won a goal kick by hurrying and harassing the attacker.

Now most people on this forum have described Chimbonda as world class, top class, top 4 class and so on and so on at the same time as saying that Lee is average at best.

Last season I did a huge series of threads which showed just how effective each of our fullbacks is when it comes to defending, Lee was way, way, way ahead of Chimbonda defensively, yet still Chimbonda is described as way ahead of Lee in terms of that fabled word "class".

Most people base this opinion on the attacking third and tend to ignore the defensive third where Chimbonda's statistics are marginally better being that he has a few direct assists and a couple of goals. However they tend to be blinded by these stats and fail to see that more Chimbonda led attacks break down than Lee attacks do, and here is where the difference between Lee and ALL our other full-backs that I have seen play in the past few seasons differ, Lee will immediately recover his defensive position, Chimbonda, Bale, and Ekotto don't, which leaves our CB exposed as proved by Chimbonda's wandering act yesterday which left Kaboul in a flap when he had THREE players racing at and beyond him to contend with.

A lot of Lee's attacking play goes un-noticed because only his crossing and direct assists are noticed, the passes which keep the move going remain largely ignored, the fact that his presence in the attacking third creates space for others remains largely ignored, the fact that he feeds the ball into these spaces for others to attack remains largely ignored, the fact that he keeps the attacks alive with simple but effective balls remains largely ignored. If you look past the final pass before a goal, you will see that Lee is involved in a healthy percentage of the goals we score and the chances which we create.

To whoever it was who accused him of wasting chances, I would point you to the numerous games where we have had 15 or more shots on goal and scored only 1 or 2 goals, is that down to Lee's poor attacking or the fact that our group of superstar strikers and midfielders have been extremely wasteful in front of goal for quite a bloody while now?

Those picking apart his crossing ability were the same people who ripped him to shreds at the end of last season, when he was playing cross after cross after cross into the area, putting pass after pass after pass into space in the box for someone to attack in the same way that the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Nolan, Scholes and others do and have done for years. If we had a Gerrard or a Lampard or a Nolan or a Scholes then you would find that Leapy would have a lot more direct assists, but we have midfielders who don't attack the space or balls into it.

As someone else pointed out, we don't have the kind of strikers who will attack crosses either. I said when we were in for Bale that it would be a bit pointless to have him throwing cross after cross after cross in because we have nobody who will take advantage of them and attack the ball, this season, that assessment has been proven to be correct, because once again, very few crosses, even the ones which have been of good quality, have actually been converted, the majority are cleared or in the keepers arms without even a hint of a challenge from our players.

I said it at the time and I'll say it again now, we don't need someone who flings ball after ball into the box hoping someone will get on the end of it, we need someone who is more intelligent than that, someone who will play balls along the floor for Defoe and Bent to run onto and lash home, someone who will play 1-2's with Keane to create chances and take defenders out of the game, someone who can occasionally cross when they have to but who prefers the more intelligent, more skillful and with our team, more effective way of playing. We need Daniel Carvalho!

Back to Leapy though, there are a hell of a lot of people who need to open their eyes to his complete game and to stop being so ignorant towards what he actually brings to the team.

 

[batigol]

Freakishly long post defending your obsession with LYP. I have nothing against LPY really and do think he's a pretty good player but your statements about other posters being ignorant or not knowing what they are talking about just typifies an arrogant, self-righteous, and very much self-opinionated person.

These people base their opinions from watching the football being played on the pitch just like you, nothing more and nothing less. Just because they have a different opinion or conclusion from what they see on the pitch doesn't mean they know any less about football.

Maybe the original poster should have just stuck to commenting on LPY rather than adding you in the picture because that obviously pricked your ego and made you bristle. However, that doesn't mean his comments or any other posters who thinks differently from you should be term ignorant and not knowledgeable about football as compared to the likes of you. It's interesting to know that all he did was challenge your assertions about LYP and it is disappointing and ungracious of you to send out such a post that derides anyone who thinks otherwise about LYP and his contributions.

 

[bomberH]

Defensively he's not that great either. He doesn't tackle, but rarely needs to, but he gets turned far too easily

Camaj, sorry mate, but that's right up there with the most ridiculous things i've read on here for a while.

What matches have some people been watching?

It's quite simple, he ain't the best LB in the world but he's the best we've had in years and years and does an excellent defensive job pretty much every time he plays for Spurs. Apart from the silly quote above, most of the people on here are moaning cos he doesn't offer enough going forward. Well, there aren't many that do. The one that springs to mind is Evra, who's been pretty outstanding, but that's about it. Carl just summed it up, it's not all about crossing you know. He does get involved with other aspects of build up play too... that sometimes doesn't involve crossing... i know, hard to believe isn't it.

Yes it would be nice if he could cross better, but let's be thankful he can defend eh.

 

[Thesoccershrink]

lee's a solid, decent defender who does his job well and efficiently, but one of the top 3 left backs in the world? really? do me a favour. he's nowhere near the level of patrice evra or cashley cole, let alone all the other LBs there are around. as much as i hate to say it, clichy looks a fantastic young LB as well.

if he's one of the top 3 in the world, PSV would not have let him go, we would not have been willing to flog him to roma, and quite frankly he would be playing at a far far far better club then us right now.

as i said, decent player, thats it. let's not get above our stations here and get carried away. we have two world class players at our club, ledley and berbs, certainly not wipey.

a world class LB would be good going forward, whether people like it or not.

:grin: Nail on head

 

[Lanh]

...but your statements about other posters being ignorant or not knowing what they are talking about just typifies an arrogant, self-righteous, and very much self-opinionated person.

Bollocks batigol!

Sorry mate but the entire post is complete and utter bollocks written in response to what you think I said rather than what I actually said.

I did not call anybody ignorant. What I said was that people need to "stop being so ignorant towards what he actually brings to the team" and this was because, as I also said earlier in the post, "the passes which keep the move going remain largely ignored, the fact that his presence in the attacking third creates space for others remains largely ignored, the fact that he feeds the ball into these spaces for others to attack remains largely ignored, the fact that he keeps the attacks alive with simple but effective balls remains largely ignored".

People criticise Lee mostly because of his crossing ability, they were even doing to when he was putting in some superb left and right footed crosses in the second half of last season particularly, and they largely ignore the other facets of his attacking play.

Now I didn't think I would have to explain this, but when someone ignores something batigol, they are being ignorant towards that thing which they are ignoring, simple as that.

So leave the bullshit attacks about ego, arrogance, self-righteousness and about derision at the door and debate the qualities, positive and negative, of Leapy with me and others if you choose to do so.

 

[Babylon22]

Well, thanks for that... :|

I disagree, despite one average game - notice i say average, not poor - i think he's done more than enough to earn his place and will continue to provide very capable, very solid cover back there. Berbatov's been off the boil for a good few games and has looked a lot less impressive than last year but i don't see many of you calling for him to be sold :shrug:

How about Chimbonda? He's had a really poo season so far, had far more off games than Wipey. Lennon? Had a few good games, but been absent more than impressive.

All of our players will have momentary lapses that will be pounced on by their respective non-fans, so lets just take this as the usual biased post that is made up mostly of self opinion built on some fascination with the grass being greener...

get over it, get behind the team, you f*cking chuds

Under Ramos,whenever Bale is fit,Lee finds himself on the bench.

And Staleri is shit. Ramos agrees with me.

 

[PYiddy]

I am afraid that Lee is looking no better than an adequate ( at best ) cover for Bale. His lack of strength and total inability to cross the ball stand out more than ever. I remember a few months ago Carl was posting tributes to Wipey as amongst the top 3 LB's in the world adding that we would be mad to start the untried Bale ahead of him. I wonder whether you still feel that Carl ? With the signing of Gunter, Lee will be no 3 LB at the Lane never mind in the world. Mind you I hope that Gunter as a RB will not be as one footed as Wipey.

as soon as he made 2 bad crosses yesterday, i knew someone would start a mindless thread like this.:roll:



boring