Doubts over Radamel Falcao's reported age!

[mill]

Maybe 3rd party owners would be liable

 

[shelfyid]

considering age is so important for a player and the sums involved this could be classed as serious fraud.

 

[Main Man]

Silly story.

I am pretty sure they will have seen his Passport when he signed.

Incidentally, has every right to tell people whatever age he wants.

 

[Sauniere]

Silly story.

I am pretty sure they will have seen his Passport when he signed.

Incidentally, has every right to tell people whatever age he wants.

Whilst it's possible it will turn out to be a silly story he works in a field (sorry for the pun) where age is an extremely important factor for many reasons. So bearing that in mind he doesn't have the right to lie about his age. He can tell members of the public and the press what he likes but he doesn't have the right to lie on his registration.

 

[dontcallme]

What makes you say that? The press there may well be similar to the ****s we have in the UK. Build them up, then knock them down. It's all about selling papers.

Seriously?

Sometimes the papers get things horrendously wrong but surely this is newsworthy if true.

Remember rooney making all the papers for scoring that goal against Everton aged 16? If a journalist found out he was actually 25 would you really want them to keep it quiet?

 

[Spurs 1961]

mmm I thought Paulinho looks older than 23/24! Maybe clubs need forensic scientists on their staff so that they can 'date' players

 

[newbie]

Years ago Teddy Sheringham said sometthing along the lines of how can his son compete when African young players in accademies lie about there age. If u are 1 yrs older at youth it gives u a massive advantage 2 years even more so it would help u get noticed a lot more and give u a fighting chance if Mason or Carroll has lied and went back 2 years they would look like world beaters.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Seriously?

Sometimes the papers get things horrendously wrong but surely this is newsworthy if true.

Remember rooney making all the papers for scoring that goal against Everton aged 16? If a journalist found out he was actually 25 would you really want them to keep it quiet?

No, that would be news, but if Rooney had been playing for S****horpe would the press be so bothered? Would teh press hold onto teh story so it makes bigger news? I think so.

They must have known he was two years older, but for some reason have waited untill he made it massive before breaking the news.

 

[dontcallme]

No, that would be news, but if Rooney had been playing for S****horpe would the press be so bothered? Would teh press hold onto teh story so it makes bigger news? I think so.

They must have known he was two years older, but for some reason have waited untill he made it massive before breaking the news.

You do understand that the press have to make money to survive right? Can they really waste space in their newspapers writing stories that nobody will read? They would go bankrupt very quickly if they filled their papers up with stories that no one would read.

An international striker, leaving for a record fee has lied about his age. That is news that people will read. They haven't lied or manufactured it. A S****horpe player being 2 years older than he says is news but probably one for The S****horpe Gazette.

We're not all equal but I fail to see how you've turned this story into an anti-press rant.

 

[Real_madyidd]

You do understand that the press have to make money to survive right? Can they really waste space in their newspapers writing stories that nobody will read? They would go bankrupt very quickly if they filled their papers up with stories that no one would read.

An international striker, leaving for a record fee has lied about his age. That is news that people will read. They haven't lied or manufactured it. A S****horpe player being 2 years older than he says is news but probably one for The S****horpe Gazette.

We're not all equal but I fail to see how you've turned this story into an anti-press rant.

I fail to see an "aniti press rant" at all. Did you see what I was replying to?

I fully understand that they need to sell papers (don't recall saying they didn't and cannot find any time I have said that). I have also agreed that it is news (again I have not said that it isn't). Not sure what your point is or why you are stating things we already know. Fill your boots though.

Apparently there has been a royal baby born....

 

[Sum Monsterism]

I fail to see an "aniti press rant" at all. Did you see what I was replying to?

I fully understand that they need to sell papers (don't recall saying they didn't and cannot find any time I have said that). I have also agreed that it is news (again I have not said that it isn't). Not sure what your point is or why you are stating things we already know. Fill your boots though.

Apparently there has been a royal baby born....

grrrrr! Now you're turning it into an anti-baby rant? Don't you know that the papers can't sell papers without Royal babies? Don't you understand they wouldn't make it up? grrrrr!

 

[Main Man]

Whilst it's possible it will turn out to be a silly story he works in a field (sorry for the pun) where age is an extremely important factor for many reasons. So bearing that in mind he doesn't have the right to lie about his age. He can tell members of the public and the press what he likes but he doesn't have the right to lie on his registration.

You and the idiot who has rated my post as 'wtf' are missing the very straight-forward point.

It is the responsibility of the club to ensure the player is registered correctly. To do this, they would check his passport.

End of story.

 

[Sauniere]

You and the idiot who has rated my post as 'wtf' are missing the very straight-forward point.

It is the responsibility of the club to ensure the player is registered correctly. To do this, they would check his passport.

End of story.

I think you're the one missing the point mate and you should lose the shitty attitude.

Whilst there is a responsibility for the club to check registrations and all paperwork pertaining to them it is also a responsibility to the player for providing truthful information.

Here is a link outlining what goes on in a transfer

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/features/transfer-deadline-day-how-deals-get-done.html

Now, to a large degree the club doing the checking has to assume that the documents that they take possession of are genuine and contain true, factual information. You will note that in this article there is no mention of checking a passport - however, I would also assume that they would check it. The application processes for passports in foreign countries are not so stringent as in ours, in fact there is a huge problem in some African countries where age fraud in sport is more prevalent and passports containing erroneous or fraudulent information is rife.

I won't go into details but needless to say a passport check is not necessarily going to highlight a fraud of this nature.

 

[Main Man]

I think you're the one missing the point mate and you should lose the shitty attitude.

Whilst there is a responsibility for the club to check registrations and all paperwork pertaining to them it is also a responsibility to the player for providing truthful information.

Here is a link outlining what goes on in a transfer

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/features/transfer-deadline-day-how-deals-get-done.html

Now, to a large degree the club doing the checking has to assume that the documents that they take possession of are genuine and contain true, factual information. You will note that in this article there is no mention of checking a passport - however, I would also assume that they would check it. The application processes for passports in foreign countries are not so stringent as in ours, in fact there is a huge problem in some African countries where age fraud in sport is more prevalent and passports containing erroneous or fraudulent information is rife.

I won't go into details but needless to say a passport check is not necessarily going to highlight a fraud of this nature.

Firstly, you have provided a link relating to the Premier League. What relevance is this to the Falcao transfer?

Secondly, you do not need to make assumptions - I am telling you.

I have went through the process and I am more than aware of what happens.

Also, you have highlighted the issue of people coming from African countries. This is an issue prevalent especially in this country's welfare system when a refugee realises being a 'minor' will entitle them to greater financial support hence the number of birthday's defaulting to 01/01/... as it is practically impossible to verify their date of birth.

But Falcao isn't a refugee from a third world country.

His 'right to work' in the country will have been verified by Monaco, this includes a passport check (even a credit check believe it or not if necessary).

Could he have a fake passport? Yes. Should he be able to use it to dupe every club he has ever played for? Only at their deliberate ignorance.

 

[Lufti]

Wonder how long he's been pulling this trick. Maybe he was playing in the u12s as a 14 year old which is how he managed to get scouted for River in the first place

 

[Main Man]

What do you disagree with Sun Monsterism?

 

[Sauniere]

Firstly, you have provided a link relating to the Premier League. What relevance is this to the Falcao transfer?

Secondly, you do not need to make assumptions - I am telling you.

I have went through the process and I am more than aware of what happens.

Also, you have highlighted the issue of people coming from African countries. This is an issue prevalent especially in this country's welfare system when a refugee realises being a 'minor' will entitle them to greater financial support hence the number of birthday's defaulting to 01/01/... as it is practically impossible to verify their date of birth.

But Falcao isn't a refugee from a third world country.

His 'right to work' in the country will have been verified by Monaco, this includes a passport check (even a credit check believe it or not if necessary).

Could he have a fake passport? Yes. Should he be able to use it to dupe every club he has ever played for? Only at their deliberate ignorance.

I can't help thinking you're being belligerent for the sake of it, there's no need for it.

First of all, my initial bone of contention was your comment regarding the player having the right to say what he likes about his age when that is simply wrong. Whatever else happens in the process he still does not have the right to lie, you seem to have glossed over that and picked up other sticks to chew so to speak.

I provided a link to the premier league because it gave a good outline of what goes on in a transfer situation. I think it is a good template for what goes on in most if not all transfer situations for clubs in the top leagues throughout Europe. It also has a section about FIFA's transfer matching system which is relevant to transfers to clubs from foreign clubs. This process has to be gone through regardless of whether the buying club is a BPL club or not so it is very relevant.

If you have details of the inner workings of how Monaco conduct their transfers and how they differ from the premier league and bypass the FIFA matching system then please enlighten us.

Here is a link to the FIFA TMS explaining what it is, what information they require etc.

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organisation/footballgovernance/news/newsid=1310345/index.html

In short they verify that all details are correct, that nothing untoward is going on etc and then they give the particular football association clearance for the transfer to go ahead. The specific countries association then give the relevant club the go ahead to proceed. So as you can see, there are two steps before Monaco could even have the opportunity to deliberately ignore any fraudulent information. If there is any deliberate ignorance involved then it is by FIFA then by the country FA and finally the buying club.

I highlighted the issue of age fraud in sport being prevalent in some African countries yes, this was merely an example that age fraud does go on and is most prevalent on that continent.


Finally:

Secondly, you do not need to make assumptions - I am telling you.

I have went through the process and I am more than aware of what happens

This actually made me laugh. Please forgive me for assuming something when all along I should simply have taken the word of an argumentative, belligerent little man on the internet. I won't make that mistake again I assure you although by the fact that you obviously had no idea of the FIFA TMS stage in transfer proceedings I'm wondering if you were actually aware of what happens? Strange, I'll just take your word for it shall I?

 

[Sum Monsterism]

What do you disagree with Sun Monsterism?

I'll assume that you mean me, cos I've seen no Sun Monsterism.

I wtf'd you yesterday for the following:

Silly story. I am pretty sure they will have seen his Passport when he signed. Incidentally, has every right to tell people whatever age he wants.

"Silly story?" Not at all. We hear about this kinda thing from time to time.
You are pretty sure they saw his passport? Assumption? Surely not (but more on that in a mo!)
Incidentally he has every blah blah whatever age he wants. That sealed the "wtf", 'cos it made me say aloud "white turf facilitates" which is what I presume "wtf" means.

after seeing yesterday you decided my "wtf" made me an idiot, I thought I'd read further into the subject matter and come back with an informed (or maybe completely fabricated) comment of my own - but you'd only gone and beaten me to it (!) I think...

btw - I love the tone you take when you think you're right, it's almost like you hold anyone that disagrees in contempt

Secondly, you do not need to make assumptions - I am telling you.

I have went through the process and I am more than aware of what happens.

Also, you have highlighted the issue of people coming from African countries. This is an issue prevalent especially in this country's welfare system when a refugee realises being a 'minor' will entitle them to greater financial support hence the number of birthday's defaulting to 01/01/... as it is practically impossible to verify their date of birth.

But Falcao isn't a refugee from a third world country. His 'right to work' in the country will have been verified by Monaco, this includes a passport check (even a credit check believe it or not if necessary).

Could he have a fake passport? Yes. Should he be able to use it to dupe every club he has ever played for? Only at their deliberate ignorance.

the points here that made me smile most were:

"Secondly, you do not need to make assumptions - I am telling you." We're supposed to take your word for anything even remotely approaching FACT, but you don't entertain the thought that you might be incorrect? (And your first post included that you made an assumption. Careful son - the world might explode)

but all that sourness aside, and putting to the back of my mind your forthright views and general admonishing gravitas it was this that I disagreed with:

"Could he have a fake passport? Yes. Should he be able to use it to dupe every club he has ever played for? Only at their deliberate ignorance"
because, with your assumption notwithstanding - as you couldn't possibly know this for a fact, I disagree.

and to top it all you add some heavyweight bollocks about having been through it. "I have went through the process and I am more than aware of what happens." How can you be more than aware? You can be aware, granted, but more than aware?

I think you're pulling some legs or deluding yourself bro. Nothing personal.

 

[Main Man]

as you couldn't possibly know this for a fact, I disagree.

I do know it as fact.

But you are right, you have no reason to respect my 'experiences' whatsoever.

We shall see how the story unfolds.

If Falcao is proven to have lied about his age and he has got away with it despite all his previous clubs following the due process I will personally offer you and Sauniere an apology.

But it won't.

 

[Main Man]

my initial bone of contention was your comment regarding the player having the right to say what he likes about his age when that is simply wrong. Whatever else happens in the process he still does not have the right to lie, you seem to have glossed over that and picked up other sticks to chew so to speak.

We can tell people whatever age we want. We can tell people we are called whatever we want. If you can't accept that then that is your prerogative.

But at the same time, are any of his clubs going to specifically ask "What is your name? How old are you?"

No they are not. They will simply do the relevant checks, like checking his Passport.

Again, how this is escaping you is beyond me but you can hide behind your wall of stubbornness if you like...

...because that is your prerogative!