CoopsieDeadpool
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- Jun 8, 2012
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ENIC...
- Thread starter whitestreak
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Just to add Blackstone are one of the biggest investment companies in the world with a massively diverse portfolio so they’d have no qualms taking Tavistock 200 companies. It came from a guy who’s a Spurs fan and works in commodity markets. Just a rumour and all that, but he said he’s heard it from a few different people over last year.
Blackstone assets are $100bn more than Saudia pif ?
Blackstone assets are $100bn more than Saudia pif ?
arthurgrimsdell
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- Feb 16, 2004
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Everything Joe Lewis owns is clearly all owned by Joe Lewis. So he can clearly sell everything he owns within the Tavistock Group including his partial interest in Tottenham Hotspur as one entity if he chooses, and indeed he could sell other things he owns which are not inclued within the Tavistock umbrella if they exist and if he chooses (though why his death at some future time would make him more likely to do that escapes me). There are a number of Companies within the Tavistock Group which include the name Tavistock and others which don't. The Tavistock Group with its promotional website is a convenient way to show to potential partners the extent of his operational scope. The Tavistock Development Company is clearly a big player in such irrelevant to Tottenham Hotspur property development projects as Lake Tona, and so Tavistock will be mentioned. So what?
As I previously stated, my suspicion is that The Tavistock Group is a red herring as far as Tottenham Hotspur is concerned, and I have given you chapter and verse as to why ( in terms of audited legal documents in relation to Tottenham Hotspur in which the Tavistock Group is notable by its absence). However if you choose to believe otherwise without providing any legal evidence to back up your belief, the we'll just have to agree to differ.
CoopsieDeadpool
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arthurgrimsdell
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My issue is that as far as the legal documents such as audited accounts are concerned the Tavistock Group has no legal interest in Tottenham Hotspur Ltd., and that any discussions of the "sale" of the Tavistock Group by Joe Lewis would in reality be the sale of the disparate parts of the Tavistock Group owned by Joe Lewis, and that within the Tavistock Group there are many partners, including for example Daniel Levy, who in reality own portions of that group, which means that the whole operation is not entirely his to sell unless he has the agreement of his partners. This means that the assertion that Joe Lewis in light of his advanced years will sell the Tavistock Group, including Tottenham Hotspur Ltd. seems to me to be dubious at best, and more likely downright wrong.
Now my view may be incorrect, and if anyone can come up with references to legal documentation which shows that the Tavistock Group does have a legal interest in Tottenham Hotspur Ltd, or even that it owns the 70.4% of Enic Sports Inc that Daniel Levy doesn't control in a discretionary trust then I'd be interested to see it. That, however, would suggest to me that the Audited Annual Accounts of Tottenham Hotspur Ltd. have contained incorrect information for two decades or so.
My more general issue is that it is difficult to have a reasoned debate on the potential sale of the club, when we can't agree who or what currently owns it.
DogsOfWar
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- Jan 12, 2005
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The point is that Lewis could sell off the Tavistock group (as posted by Delboy75) but it won't effect Enic/Spurs as they don't appear to be owned/controlled by Tavistock.
spursfan77
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- Aug 13, 2005
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We have been linked with being taken over by them before.
Tottenham Hotspur denied takeover rumours amid reports club is 'holding out for £2 billion'
Tottenham Hotspur insist there have been no discussions as speculation of a £1 billion sale reached fever pitch on Sunday.
www.businessinsider.com
CoopsieDeadpool
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- Jun 8, 2012
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Yeah, but so what?
Basically the issue is, should Lewis sell off the Tavistock Group, ENIC/Levy will still own/be in control of the club?
If so, why not just say that? What does any of the legal guff have to do with any of us? It doesn't affect us in the slightest & it seems like yet another desperate attempt to find a reason to moan because of not being happy with the custodians of the club?
I can only assume some people don't have real world problems to concern themselves with.
DogsOfWar
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- Jan 12, 2005
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He was just trying to offer proper evidence for it rather than just saying it, isn't this a good thing!?
Personally, I'm one of the last left on here who like Enic so it's good to know Lewis could sell off Tavistock and it wouldn't affect us.
So why do Tavistock put Tottenham Hotspur on their website ? Are you seriously saying that’s some kind of PR exercise ? There are numerous articles that confirm a link between Tavistock and ENIC. Just because you can’t find a legal link doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. As we all know a large amount of Lewis operations are held offshore.
absolute bobbins
Am Yisrael Chai
- Feb 12, 2013
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?
Trix
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- Jul 29, 2004
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I would be extremely worried if someone bought us as part of a huge package deal for all of JL's companies. They may well have 100 billion in assets but I doubt very much we would see any of it. If anything they'd either be looking to flip us or at the very least extract as money as they could.
ShelfWatcher
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- Sep 9, 2021
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Well I demand trophies, but they never asked me ?
ShelfWatcher
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- Sep 9, 2021
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There's loads in the thread about this, it's complicated. But ATM the debt is serviceable. The problem as always is that ENIC keep their own money and don't invest in the club
Mind you when they do spend our money, they often waste it anyway
Pochemon94
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- Aug 6, 2019
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I'm not sure it has so much to do with stupid price but more with where is the money to be made. A lot (comparitively) of championship or lower sides get bought because there is a lot of money to be made if they can get them up to the prem/increase global brand of said team. We are already established in a lot of those areas and are prob as seen as a slow burn in terms of profit to be made rather than a quick return on investment.
arthurgrimsdell
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- Feb 16, 2004
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The way I understand the Tavistock Group is that it is equivalent to a "Dragon" on Dragons' Den. Entrepreneurs (such as Daniel Levy) start businesses and come to a point where they need more capital. Joe Lewis or his lieutenants listen to the entrepreneurs' presentations, and if they feel that Joe Lewis and his entourage can profit by injecting capital and usually their expertise into the entrepreneurs' schemes, they will make an offer, involving an equity stake, in order to enable the business to expand and for Joe Lewis's funds to increase by capital appreciation and/or interest on loans and dividends. This is certainly what happened with Daniel Levy and ENIC in the 1990's.
What it does not mean is that the Tavistock Group own the schemes in its "development and organisation portfolio", any more than the "Dragons" on Dragons' Den own the schemes they invest in. What legal vehicle each of the "Dragons" uses to invest is not necessarily publicised: they may, like Joe Lewis in ENIC, invest as individuals (with Daniel Levy using discretionary trusts), or they may use one of their companies (which they may wholly or partly own) as the investment vehicle, as is shown on the Tavistock Group's website with various developments, often with Tavistock in the company name.
According to Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/3593474Z:US) "Tavistock Group operates as an investment management firm. The Company provides portfolio management and consulting services to family offices, public and private organizations." I'd suggest that this is consistent with my "Dragons' Den" analogy.
The Tavistock Group's website is a tool in Joe Lewis's and his associates' armoury to advertise their expertise, and the group's portfolio, consisting of the many successful schemes they have been involved in in various ways, in order to help the generation of more wealth for themselves (mainly Joe Lewis). I'd suggest that there is nothing that is difficult to believe in this idea.
With regard to Lewis's operations being offshore, we know that ENIC itself is now an offshore operation, so that both Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy can take advantage of the gains from such, whereas its subsidiary Tottenham Hotspur Ltd. is not an offshore operation, but is subject to UK legal and accounting regulations and auditing. One of these requirements is to state the ultimate ownership of the company, which is stated as:
"Of the total issued share capital of Tottenham Hotspur Limited, ENIC Sports and Development Holdings Limited own 85.55%.
Mr D Levy and certain members of his family are potential beneficiaries of a discretionary trust which ultimately owns 29.4% of the share capital of ENIC Sports and Development Holdings Limited.
Mr J Lewis has an interest of 70.6% of ENIC Sports and Development Holdings Limited."
Note that it does not say that Joe Lewis's holdings are through companies or "the Tavistock Group". It states that he owns the shares personally, not ultimately. Whereas by contrast it is specified that Daniel Levy's interest is ultimately through discretionary trusts. So, the Officers of Tottenham Hotspur Ltd. and its auditors would appear to be lying if this is not the case.
Joe Lewis may wish to divest himself of everything he owns either because he's 85 and thinks he may die soon although why this would be a valid reason escapes me unless he has had a massive, but totally unpublicised falling out with all his family and associates (in which case he could more easily leave it all to the Battersea Dog's Home in his will), or that he sees a gigantic opportunity to invest all his wherewithal in Russia's oil reserves or residential insulation, or something else entirely, which I'd suggest is unlikely though theoretically possible. However, I don't see this will necessarily have any major effect on any sale of the club, not least since ENIC's consistent and persistent stance is that they are not interested in selling out at this time, though they might welcome some outside investment, and ENIC is clearly under Daniel Levy's stewardship and always has been.
So my view is that your initial report that a friend of yours says don't be surprised if the club is sold because Joe Lewis is going to sell the Tavistock Group doesn't seem convincing to me, though I have no doubt whatsoever that both his view and your report were posted here entirely in good faith. That said, that a friend of yours has suggested it without any financial commentator apparently having heard a hint of it seems slightly strange, though not impossible.
You or others may have evidence that what I have stated is wrong or untrue, in which case I'd be interested to increase my knowledge of the situation, athough nebulous references "numerous articles" and "lots of links" would not help.
All I’m getting is:
Private international airspace with no jurisdiction hosting govt ministers, foreign army training exercises and much more on 1.7m hectares of Patagonia acquired by unscrupulous means.
All while ooenly obstructing public access to heritage land local tribes have used for generations.
Conclusion is:
JL doesn’t have an empathic bone in his body, never forget that it’s just about filthy lucre and nothing else, Spurs is no different it’s just another ROI stream for sociopaths like him.
Nothing to see here! Please disperse!
Private international airspace with no jurisdiction hosting govt ministers, foreign army training exercises and much more on 1.7m hectares of Patagonia acquired by unscrupulous means.
All while ooenly obstructing public access to heritage land local tribes have used for generations.
Conclusion is:
JL doesn’t have an empathic bone in his body, never forget that it’s just about filthy lucre and nothing else, Spurs is no different it’s just another ROI stream for sociopaths like him.
Nothing to see here! Please disperse!
Amazing how under the radar this has all gone considering it’s been going on for a decade or more. Some unbelievably dodgy stories associated with this whole episode.
Interesting article on uncle Joe in Florida. More shadyness to get a major road built for huge Sunbridge development and further massive plans for development all the way out to the coast, for which he’s been building relationships with ranch owners for 15 years.
jasongarcia.substack.com
The mayor of Orange County plows ahead with a plan to pave a toll road through a forest
Orange County voters overwhelmingly opposed a plan to run a developer-backed toll road through a forest that was supposed to be saved forever. Mayor Jerry Demings doesn’t seem to care.
jasongarcia.substack.com
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