Ex Aston Villa player Dalian Atkinson dies after being tasered by Police

[TheHoddleWaddle]

It took place in the West Midlands, every other person up there is black, hell the place is even nicknamed the black country by a lot of people, if these police were racist i am sure they have had plenty of other opportunities to attack black people, it is highly unlikely

There should be an enquiry, there will be, but the police are getting a hammering online based on the words of one 'witness' who could well be unreliable

Indeed racism is abhorrent even to right wingers but the left wing SJW's on social media love to play the race card at every opportunity

It's called that due to the coal mining industry that used to be there.

 

[HildoSpur]

Going by those reports it looks like he had psychosis, left untreated the person could be very dangerous.

Actually a person with psychosis is much more likely to be harmed by other people than they are likely to be dangerous to other people. It is very, very rare for a person with psychosis to be actively dangerous (not saying it doesnt happen of course) but as I said it's usually their bizarre behaviour that causes other people to become aggressive towards them.

Also if it is true that he had been getting kidney treatment in hospital then it's possible he was suffering from delirium from an infection or trauma (tends to be temporary).

 

[HildoSpur]

I see you've never tried to restrain someone who doesn't want to be nicked if you think it's easy to restrain them when you outnumber them. Also, UK police don't shoot people in the legs

Agreed - it is not easy to restrain people even when you have the numbers. I've had to try and restrain people numerous times with other people and it's generally an entire shit fest.

 

[bomberH]

Several newspapers are saying similar, this is from the Mirror.


The ex-Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday player was described as in a 'manic state' by his brother

Former Premier League star Dalian Atkinson throttled his father and said he was going to kill him before he was tasered to death by police, it is claimed.

The ex-Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday player was described as in a "manic state" by his brother.

The 48-year-old died 90 minutes after he was hit by the stun gun in the street where he grew up in the Trench area of Telford, Shropshire, in the early hours of Monday morning.

Mr Atkinson's brother, Kenroy, 53, told The Sun the ex-Premier League star had undergone dialysis for kidney failure and was "not in his right mind".

He said his brother had attacked their 85-year-old father, Ernest, at his home on Monday before police were called to the scene.

"My brother had lost it. He was in a manic state and depressed - out of his mind and ranting.

"He had a tube in his shoulder for the dialysis and he had ripped it out and was covered in blood," he told the newspaper.

"He got Dad by the throat and said he was going to kill him. He told Dad he had already killed me, our brother Paul and sister Elaine and he had come for him.

"He was not in his right mind.

"We are all devastated. Our family is heartbroken."

According to The Sun when the first Taser shot of 50,000 volts did not stop Atkinson he shouted: “It’s not working.”

It was when a second Taser also failed Ernest, 85, said his son then yelled: “I am the Messiah.”

A third Taser round left him unconscious in the middle of the road outside the house.

He was rushed to hospital where he later died.

Perfect example of what was said yesterday. Even if this is incorrect, it shows a completely different account to the eyewitness's account that's been doing the rounds everywhere. Selective witnessing.

The nephew is saying he's disgusted by police but he's only going from the witness said, he wasn't there. Prime example of why witnesses shouldn't be allowed to speak to the media until after an investigation. If the witness makes just one false point, it could literally start a riot.

 

[Dougal]

Several newspapers are saying similar, this is from the Mirror.


The ex-Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday player was described as in a 'manic state' by his brother

Former Premier League star Dalian Atkinson throttled his father and said he was going to kill him before he was tasered to death by police, it is claimed.

The ex-Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday player was described as in a "manic state" by his brother.

The 48-year-old died 90 minutes after he was hit by the stun gun in the street where he grew up in the Trench area of Telford, Shropshire, in the early hours of Monday morning.

Mr Atkinson's brother, Kenroy, 53, told The Sun the ex-Premier League star had undergone dialysis for kidney failure and was "not in his right mind".

He said his brother had attacked their 85-year-old father, Ernest, at his home on Monday before police were called to the scene.

"My brother had lost it. He was in a manic state and depressed - out of his mind and ranting.

"He had a tube in his shoulder for the dialysis and he had ripped it out and was covered in blood," he told the newspaper.

"He got Dad by the throat and said he was going to kill him. He told Dad he had already killed me, our brother Paul and sister Elaine and he had come for him.

"He was not in his right mind.

"We are all devastated. Our family is heartbroken."

According to The Sun when the first Taser shot of 50,000 volts did not stop Atkinson he shouted: “It’s not working.”

It was when a second Taser also failed Ernest, 85, said his son then yelled: “I am the Messiah.”

A third Taser round left him unconscious in the middle of the road outside the house.

He was rushed to hospital where he later died.

And was it at that point the police started kicking him?

 

[Mullers]

Actually a person with psychosis is much more likely to be harmed by other people than they are likely to be dangerous to other people. It is very, very rare for a person with psychosis to be actively dangerous (not saying it doesnt happen of course) but as I said it's usually their bizarre behaviour that causes other people to become aggressive towards them.

Also if it is true that he had been getting kidney treatment in hospital then it's possible he was suffering from delirium from an infection or trauma (tends to be temporary).

I didn't mean they will go out and actively harm people but just that their behavior can be very unpredictable There was a neighbour of mine who I found wandering in the street at 2am in the morning, she had no recollection of how got there, I took her back to her house and called to her daughter and she got an ambulance. During that time my neighbor talked about how her daughter had chopped her other daughter into bits, she was relatively calm in the ambulance but once she got inside the hospital ward she just went ballistic it took a fair amount of staff to restrain and wouldn't calm down until her other daughter to talk to her.
At first the doctors said it was a UTI but eventually they diagnosed it as psychosis. There were definitely underlying family problems which had a big hand in how she got to that state.

 

[HildoSpur]

I didn't mean they will go out and actively harm people but just that their behavior can be very unpredictable There was a neighbour of mine who I found wandering in the street at 2am in the morning, she had no recollection of how got there, I took her back to her house and called to her daughter and she got an ambulance. During that time my neighbor talked about how her daughter had chopped her other daughter into bits, she was relatively calm in the ambulance but once she got inside the hospital ward she just went ballistic it took a fair amount of staff to restrain and wouldn't calm down until her other daughter to talk to her.
At first the doctors said it was a UTI but eventually they diagnosed it as psychosis. There were definitely underlying family problems which had a big hand in how she got to that state.

Fair play to you for looking after her like that. Psychosis is pretty scary to observe as the people are very unpredicable as you say and tend to be very distressed.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

And was it at that point the police started kicking him?

Not on this specific incident. But, in general:-

kicking, while looking absolutely awful, as is punching etc, is often used as a 'distraction strike'. Normally used if the person isn't being compliant. To get arms and legs into a restraining position. Sadly, there's no alternative on occasion. If the person isn't responding to verbal commands or other attampts to get compliance, then it happens. Even after being zapped, the person could still struggle. The tazer gets people int a perfect prone position.

Anyway, it's awful for the poor man and his family. What an unpleasant thing to happen to anyone.

 

[Tucker]

I see you've never tried to restrain someone who doesn't want to be nicked if you think it's easy to restrain them when you outnumber them. Also, UK police don't shoot people in the legs

I see you know nothing about me, or my life experiences.

It isn't that hard to neutralise an individual in a safe way. I've done it myself, I've been trained by professionals to do it. As far as we can see Atkinson wasn't armed, he was outnumbered three to one. And according to eye witnesses, he was shot by a taser and then kicked while he was down. That doesn't sound like taking someone out in a safe manner to me.

 

[Dougal]

I see you know nothing about me, or my life experiences.

It isn't that hard to neutralise an individual in a safe way. I've done it myself, I've been trained by professionals to do it. As far as we can see Atkinson wasn't armed, he was outnumbered three to one. And according to eye witnesses, he was shot by a taser and then kicked while he was down. That doesn't sound like taking someone out in a safe manner to me.

And according to his own family he was off his head.

 

[Gb160]

Amazing the conclusions that have been made without any knowledge of exactly what went on.
I suppose these days people just need something to be outraged by.

 

[bomberH]

I see you know nothing about me, or my life experiences.

It isn't that hard to neutralise an individual in a safe way. I've done it myself, I've been trained by professionals to do it. As far as we can see Atkinson wasn't armed, he was outnumbered three to one. And according to eye witnesses, he was shot by a taser and then kicked while he was down. That doesn't sound like taking someone out in a safe manner to me.

Can I ask what you do and who trained you?

 

[Dougal]

Amazing the conclusions that have been made without any knowledge of exactly what went on.
I suppose these days people just need something to be outraged by.

How dare you!

 

[wearetheparklane]

I may be thick but it seems to me the point here is a guy was tasered and died. That's the real issue and that needs to be explored to find out what happened.

By coincidence he had a career some years ago in football.

Still - it's just my opinion .

Kennington asking the real questions.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Tucker. It isn't easy. Most old bill aren't trained in ninja style martial arts. They are normal people trained to a minimum standard. Someone's build might be slight. I know a brown belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu (I'm no slouch either) who hates the restraining side.

 

[Tucker]

And according to his own family he was off his head.

Quite. That doesn't mean he needs to be tasered.

Can I ask what you do and who trained you?

I was used to work with violent mentally ill people. I was trained by several professionals in ways to both calm them down, and prevent them from harming others. I've dealt with people throwing knives, and beating the shit out of members of my staff. Many of them much stronger and bigger than I. I'm not saying this to try and look like a hard man, far from it. I'm a weedy little fucker. But that's the point, you don't necessarily need to overpower people. There's many ways they can be "guided" into a safer situation. Dalian Atkinson clearly had mental health issues, he was clearly a danger to himself and others. But he wasn't armed.

From various accounts he had a stent clearly visible in his arm where he'd ripped out the dialysis treatment, he was covered in blood and unsteady on his feet. That should have told the officers that he probably wasn't in the best of health, and probably not safe to be shot with 50'000 volts.

 

[Dougal]

Tucker. It isn't easy. Most old bill aren't trained in ninja style martial arts. They are normal people trained to a minimum standard. Someone's build might be slight. I know a brown belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu (I'm no slouch either) who hates the restraining side.

The police have a few tricks up their sleeve, I wouldn't believe the 'minimum standard' bit. I have quite a few mates doing it and I stay on the right side of them in an 'over-enthusiastic meeting of minds'. There's no ninjas among them but they can certainly take a sane minded person down if needs be. Luckily for me I'm slightly deranged.

Wibble.

 

[tony_parkes]

Quite. That doesn't mean he needs to be tasered.



I was used to work with violent mentally ill people. I was trained by several professionals in ways to both calm them down, and prevent them from harming others. I've dealt with people throwing knives, and beating the shit out of members of my staff. Many of them much stronger and bigger than I. I'm not saying this to try and look like a hard man, far from it. I'm a weedy little fucker. But that's the point, you don't necessarily need to overpower people. There's many ways they can be "guided" into a safer situation. Dalian Atkinson clearly had mental health issues, he was clearly a danger to himself and others. But he wasn't armed.

From various accounts he had a stent clearly visible in his arm where he'd ripped out the dialysis treatment, he was covered in blood and unsteady on his feet. That should have told the officers that he probably wasn't in the best of health, and probably not safe to be shot with 50'000 volts.

The throwing knives bit, did you used to work in the circus?

 

[Dougal]

Quite. That doesn't mean he needs to be tasered.



I was used to work with violent mentally ill people. I was trained by several professionals in ways to both calm them down, and prevent them from harming others. I've dealt with people throwing knives, and beating the shit out of members of my staff. Many of them much stronger and bigger than I. I'm not saying this to try and look like a hard man, far from it. I'm a weedy little fucker. But that's the point, you don't necessarily need to overpower people. There's many ways they can be "guided" into a safer situation. Dalian Atkinson clearly had mental health issues, he was clearly a danger to himself and others. But he wasn't armed.

From various accounts he had a stent clearly visible in his arm where he'd ripped out the dialysis treatment, he was covered in blood and unsteady on his feet. That should have told the officers that he probably wasn't in the best of health, and probably not safe to be shot with 50'000 volts.

You do actually mention there that your staff have had the shit beaten out of them. Not much of a stretch to think they might prefer someone else getting tasered rather than them pissing blood!

 

[Tucker]

Tucker. It isn't easy. Most old bill aren't trained in ninja style martial arts. They are normal people trained to a minimum standard. Someone's build might be slight. I know a brown belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu (I'm no slouch either) who hates the restraining side.

It's not particularly pleasant, and it's hard work, but that doesn't mean it isn't a simple task when the right techniques are implemented. It's a good ten years since I was trained, so I can't say for sure exactly what I'd have done in the situation. Frankly none of us were there so none of us can really. But it seems excessive force was used here to subdue a mentally ill man, who'd lost a lot of blood.