Ex Aston Villa player Dalian Atkinson dies after being tasered by Police

[Tucker]

The throwing knives bit, did you used to work in the circus?

Felt like it some days some of the staff were right clowns.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

On the topic of Dailian, interesting from Big Ron:-

"I still believe if Atkinson hadn’t got injured at Christmas we would have won the first Premier League in 1993,” insists then-Aston Villa boss Ron Atkinson. “We were flying at the time and he missed a big chunk.”

 

[Tucker]

You do actually mention there that your staff have had the shit beaten out of them. Not much of a stretch to think they might prefer someone else getting tasered rather than them pissing blood!

Well to be honest in many cases, if they'd have been doing their job properly it wouldn't have happened.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Well to be honest in many cases, if they'd have been doing their job properly it wouldn't have happened.

Therefore is isn't as simple as you suggest.

Anyone else agree with Big Ron re the then Prem challenge?

 

[Dougal]

Well to be honest in many cases, if they'd have been doing their job properly it wouldn't have happened.

If there was a threat of having the shit kicked out of you if you didn't do your job properly hanging over more people this country would be in a much better state. Politicians and bankers would be dead, but that would only start the improvement.

 

[Dougal]

Therefore is isn't as simple as you suggest.

Anyone else agree with Big Ron re the then Prem challenge?

It's not beyond credibility. Stuck between Liverpool's dominance of the 80's and Man United's dominance thereafter, the window of opportunity was there, just ask Leeds and that other shower.

 

[Tucker]

If there was a threat of having the shit kicked out of you if you didn't do your job properly hanging over more people this country would be in a much better state. Politicians and bankers would be dead, but that would only start the improvement.

I don't know...some of those politicians pay good money in Soho to have the shit kicked out of their balls.

 

[Tucker]

Therefore is isn't as simple as you suggest.

Anyone else agree with Big Ron re the then Prem challenge?

No reason why they couldn't have. They finished second didn't they so they weren't far off.

 

[Dougal]

I don't know...some of those politicians pay good money in Soho to have the shit kicked out of their balls.

I'd say some would love the wrong end of a taser too. Sick puppies.

 

[bomberH]

I was used to work with violent mentally ill people. I was trained by several professionals in ways to both calm them down, and prevent them from harming others. I've dealt with people throwing knives, and beating the shit out of members of my staff. Many of them much stronger and bigger than I. I'm not saying this to try and look like a hard man, far from it. I'm a weedy little fucker. But that's the point, you don't necessarily need to overpower people. There's many ways they can be "guided" into a safer situation. Dalian Atkinson clearly had mental health issues, he was clearly a danger to himself and others. But he wasn't armed.

From various accounts he had a stent clearly visible in his arm where he'd ripped out the dialysis treatment, he was covered in blood and unsteady on his feet. That should have told the officers that he probably wasn't in the best of health, and probably not safe to be shot with 50'000 volts.

Cool cheers. I still disagree with you for the reasons given by others since your post but cheers for replying. One thing I'd say is that in your situation, by the sounds of it other than your staff, there were no members of public to take into consideration when dealing. It does make a difference, particularly nowadays when everything is filmed and people are waiting for police to fuck up so they can put it on YouTube etc. The pressure (in some situations) is immense - you're trying to detain and restrain someone who's kicking off, everyone is watching, the suspect is punching and kicking and spitting at you, your instinct is to bash them over the head to 'win' and get them cuffed but one slightly wrong move will result in the end of that copper's career and a possible jail sentence for assault if it's not done the exact way it should be, even if it means having to take a beating for it. It's really pretty shit.

Re your last sentence, the people who saw the stent must have pretty good vision at 0130am while he's banging on a door threatening to kill his dad. Being covered in blood and unsteady on your feet is pretty normal on a Saturday night in Romford. I jest, obviously, but you get the gist.

IF, and it's a big if, he was acting extremely violently, shouting threats to kill, being covered in blood and most importantly, having already told his dad that he killed his brother (his brother confirmed this), and walking towards police after several warnings to stop or they'll taser, then I find the whole thing acceptable. That obviously doesn't include the possible kicking while down and unconscious.

 

[HildoSpur]

The police have a few tricks up their sleeve, I wouldn't believe the 'minimum standard' bit. I have quite a few mates doing it and I stay on the right side of them in an 'over-enthusiastic meeting of minds'. There's no ninjas among them but they can certainly take a sane minded person down if needs be. Luckily for me I'm slightly deranged.

Wibble.

Would they be good ninjas if you knew they were ninjas? Something to think about.

 

[whitesocks]

Not on this specific incident. But, in general:- kicking, while looking absolutely awful, as is punching etc, is often used as a 'distraction strike'. Normally used if the person isn't being compliant. To get arms and legs into a restraining position. Sadly, there's no alternative on occasion. If the person isn't responding to verbal commands or other attampts to get compliance, then it happens. ...

'distraction strike' - seriously, what a fantastic use of words.
Lets appeal the rest of Dembele's ban - after all it was just a distraction 'poke in the eye'.
It looked bad, but was half hearted.
If anything Dembele was calming things down.

 

[Xeeleeyid]

It's not particularly pleasant, and it's hard work, but that doesn't mean it isn't a simple task when the right techniques are implemented. It's a good ten years since I was trained, so I can't say for sure exactly what I'd have done in the situation. Frankly none of us were there so none of us can really. But it seems excessive force was used here to subdue a mentally ill man, who'd lost a lot of blood.

You say you weren't there and that nobody can really say how they'd have handled the situation? Yet you say it would seem excessive force was used to subdue a mentally ill man who had lost a lot of blood? Right...

Quite a few leaps of conclusion after some sensible rational comment...

 

[nailsy]

Several newspapers are saying similar, this is from the Mirror.


The ex-Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday player was described as in a 'manic state' by his brother

Former Premier League star Dalian Atkinson throttled his father and said he was going to kill him before he was tasered to death by police, it is claimed.

The ex-Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday player was described as in a "manic state" by his brother.

The 48-year-old died 90 minutes after he was hit by the stun gun in the street where he grew up in the Trench area of Telford, Shropshire, in the early hours of Monday morning.

Mr Atkinson's brother, Kenroy, 53, told The Sun the ex-Premier League star had undergone dialysis for kidney failure and was "not in his right mind".

He said his brother had attacked their 85-year-old father, Ernest, at his home on Monday before police were called to the scene.

"My brother had lost it. He was in a manic state and depressed - out of his mind and ranting.

"He had a tube in his shoulder for the dialysis and he had ripped it out and was covered in blood," he told the newspaper.

"He got Dad by the throat and said he was going to kill him. He told Dad he had already killed me, our brother Paul and sister Elaine and he had come for him.

"He was not in his right mind.

"We are all devastated. Our family is heartbroken."

According to The Sun when the first Taser shot of 50,000 volts did not stop Atkinson he shouted: “It’s not working.”

It was when a second Taser also failed Ernest, 85, said his son then yelled: “I am the Messiah.”

A third Taser round left him unconscious in the middle of the road outside the house.

He was rushed to hospital where he later died.

This puts a totally different slant on the reports from yesterday. Reading this it seems quite likely that the police were told that Atkinson had confessed to murdering three people and that he'd just tried to kill another. Pretty understandable that they used the taser if this report is accurate.

 

[Mullers]

This puts a totally different slant on the reports from yesterday. Reading this it seems quite likely that the police were told that Atkinson had confessed to murdering three people and that he'd just tried to kill another. Pretty understandable that they used the taser if this report is accurate.

I understand that he's very emotional but again like the female witness yesterday this statement should be left for the investigation and possible trial, not for people to read in The Sun, ffs.

 

[Kennington]

Kennington asking the real questions.

Some of you don't seem to understand the point I was trying to make.

This is all mostly off topic - the topic being general football- please try to keep up.

Even worse there are no grammar tips to make it even remotely relevant.

Or just forget it lol!!

 

[StartingPrice]

Quite common ParticulArly in large males under the influence of drugs or alcohol to not go down after a taser strike and can sometimes take up to seven discharges to be subdued

I don't know if this means I'm getting very sheltered in my old age - but that really is news to me. I've only ever seen them in use in demonstrations on TV, and the odd bit of online footage. I really did believe that they took any human being out with one hit...and that that was the point of it. Obviously everything I said was based on that understanding but, as it turns out, I don't know shit

Didn't the Scandinavians develop some kind of foam gun that shot a stream of liquid foam at targets legs which them expanded and hardened immobising them with very limited risk of injury?

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

I understand that he's very emotional but again like the female witness yesterday this statement should be left for the investigation and possible trial, not for people to read in The Sun, ffs.

Bang on.

Everyone is rational after the event and not there in the dark!

 

[nailsy]

I understand that he's very emotional but again like the female witness yesterday this statement should be left for the investigation and possible trial, not for people to read in The Sun, ffs.

Maybe, but when the first witness points the finger at the police it seems only fair that there's a counter report to give another perspective.

 

[Spurger King]

It's called the Black Country due to the amount of smoke and soot from heavy industry, not because every other person is black.

It's been called that since the industrial revolution, long before significant immigration.

You'd be better off talking to a wall.